List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

Do you think Gibbs will be an Adelaide player by the end of this trade period?

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Vader said:
I accept that my vision is limited to what the TV producers choose to show, and that the "eye ball test from the ground" may give a different impression...

Even so, I still expect a hell of a lot more from a player with 50-odd AFL games under his belt. I could accept this from a 1st year player, like McGovern last year, but not for a player with Menzel's experience.

I think he'll be out of the team again, as soon as we have a reasonably fit list to choose from. The only reason he's playing right now is because of the injuries to JJ and McGovern. McGovern's misfortune is good luck for Menzel - Gov is likely to miss 3 months, so Menzel is likely to get an extended run in the seniors. Menzel would need to show massive improvement if he wants to stay in the seniors when McGovern returns.
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Do you think Beech gets a run replacing Menz at some point, Vader? I think he could, considering how much the club seems to rate Beech
 
Vader said:
....Even so, I still expect a hell of a lot more from a player with 50-odd AFL games under his belt. I could accept this from a 1st year player.....
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Are we talking about Menzel now, or are you still talking about Hampton? It takes time for players to come in and play in a completely different system and structure than they are used to. He played well in the first game, he put excellent defensive pressure in his second game and had a mare in his third. There are no guarantees with Menzel, just like there are no guarantees with Hampton. While Gov and JJ are out, we have the luxury of giving Menzel time to adjust and learn how to play in this team, hopefully unleashing his undoubted potential.
 
Danger in Texas said:
Do you think Beech gets a run replacing Menz at some point, Vader? I think he could, considering how much the club seems to rate Beech
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I would like to think so... but Pyke does seem to have a very strict pecking order when it comes to his team selections. All evidence suggests that there's very little separating Poholke, Gallucci, Beech and Wigg... but Menzel appears to be ahead of this group.

Very rarely does Pyke drop a player simply because they're not performing. There's an old adage "form is temporary, but class is permanent" - Pyke seems to have adopted this as an article of faith. Pyke's Crows are like the Australian Cricket Team of old - harder to get out of it than it is to get in. What this means is that Menzel is unlikely to be dropped, (almost) no matter how badly he plays - until someone ahead of him in the pecking order is ready to return (i.e. JJ & McGovern).

If I were a selector, then Beech or Greenwood would be replacing Menzel next week. I'm not, and my money is on Menzel playing against Richmond.
 

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Shaz2012 said:
Are we talking about Menzel now, or are you still talking about Hampton? It takes time for players to come in and play in a completely different system and structure than they are used to. He played well in the first game, he put excellent defensive pressure in his second game and had a mare in his third. There are no guarantees with Menzel, just like there are no guarantees with Hampton. While Gov and JJ are out, we have the luxury of giving Menzel time to adjust and learn how to play in this team, hopefully unleashing his undoubted potential.
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Hampton has impressed me a lot more than Menzel has. I like his pace, and I love his strength - his ability to stand up in the middle of the pack, dishing out a handball to a teammate on the outside. He's had the occasional brain explosion, trying to take on too many opponents, but he's getting better at this. Hampton is improving with each and every outing. I was worried about our ability to win enough contested ball, with Lyons traded, Brouch injured, and Thompson as good as retired. Hampton's ability to win the inside ball has been a very pleasant surprise.

Menzel, on the other hand, seems to be producing less with each passing game. The only reason he gets a pass mark from some is because they're blinded by shinytoyitis. Maybe I'm suffering from the same affliction when it comes to Beech & Greenwood, but the shiny toy factor has well and truly worn off for me when it comes to Menzel's inability to impact the game.
 
Vader said:
I accept that my vision is limited to what the TV producers choose to show, and that the "eye ball test from the ground" may give a different impression...

Even so, I still expect a hell of a lot more from a player with 50-odd AFL games under his belt. I could accept this from a 1st year player, like McGovern last year, but not for a player with Menzel's experience.

I think he'll be out of the team again, as soon as we have a reasonably fit list to choose from. The only reason he's playing right now is because of the injuries to JJ and McGovern. McGovern's misfortune is good luck for Menzel - Gov is likely to miss 3 months, so Menzel is likely to get an extended run in the seniors. Menzel would need to show massive improvement if he wants to stay in the seniors when McGovern returns.
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Very true, but he thats much different to suggesting he wasn't trying. Lose the hyperbole is my advice. FWIW :)
 
Vader said:
Hampton has impressed me a lot more than Menzel has. I like his pace, and I love his strength - his ability to stand up in the middle of the pack, dishing out a handball to a teammate on the outside. He's had the occasional brain explosion, trying to take on too many opponents, but he's getting better at this. Hampton is improving with each and every outing. I was worried about our ability to win enough contested ball, with Lyons traded, Brouch injured, and Thompson as good as retired. Hampton's ability to win the inside ball has been a very pleasant surprise.

Menzel, on the other hand, seems to be producing less with each passing game. The only reason he gets a pass mark from some is because they're blinded by shinytoyitis. Maybe I'm suffering from the same affliction when it comes to Beech & Greenwood, but the shiny toy factor has well and truly worn off for me when it comes to Menzel's inability to impact the game.
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My point on Hampton was that you wrote him off too soon and now he is starting to show the fruits of sticking fat. I am arguing the same thing with Menzel. I dont think anybody is giving him a pass mark for this week. But in the one game that we have played this year against a really good side, he played a good game. That shows that there is something there to persevere with. He has much more upside than Beech. Beech is a career SANFL player with 150 games to his name. Of course he is going to dominate the SANFL. What more are you expecting to get out of him at 26/27. Menzel is 22, he has an X-factor and he has the potential to improve into a very good AFL player. The thing that I like about Menzel is his defensive pressure. I think that the key to us winning the premiership over the pure footy-pr0n that is the GWS will be our defensive side and our contested work. Menzel is bringing this already. Even against gold coast he spoiled a mark about 25 metres out, right in front of the gold coast goal that would have gone unnoticed. He gives us something without the ball already. Now he just needs to contribute more with the ball. I agree he has gone backwards from his first game, but what are you saying. He peaked in R1 at 22 and now he is on the decline? If he is capable of that performance, then he is capable of building on that and getting better. Clearly his confidence took a hit by being dropped for 2 games as well. But just because he is a confidence player, doens't mean we need to bin him. We actually need to recognize that and find out a way to nurture him accordingly. CC and Milera are two confidence players that we are bringing through nicely.
 
Shaz2012 said:
My point on Hampton was that you wrote him off too soon and now he is starting to show the fruits of sticking fat. I am arguing the same thing with Menzel. I dont think anybody is giving him a pass mark for this week. But in the one game that we have played this year against a really good side, he played a good game. That shows that there is something there to persevere with. He has much more upside than Beech. Beech is a career SANFL player with 150 games to his name. Of course he is going to dominate the SANFL. What more are you expecting to get out of him at 26/27. Menzel is 22, he has an X-factor and he has the potential to improve into a very good AFL player. The thing that I like about Menzel is his defensive pressure. I think that the key to us winning the premiership over the pure footy-pr0n that is the GWS will be our defensive side and our contested work. Menzel is bringing this already. Even against gold coast he spoiled a mark about 25 metres out, right in front of the gold coast goal that would have gone unnoticed. He gives us something without the ball already. Now he just needs to contribute more with the ball. I agree he has gone backwards from his first game, but what are you saying. He peaked in R1 at 22 and now he is on the decline? If he is capable of that performance, then he is capable of building on that and getting better. Clearly his confidence took a hit by being dropped for 2 games as well. But just because he is a confidence player, doens't mean we need to bin him. We actually need to recognize that and find out a way to nurture him accordingly. CC and Milera are two confidence players that we are bringing through nicely.
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I don't have particularly high expectations of Beech - for the very reasons you suggested.

I don't have particularly high expectations of Menzel either - but he's failed to live up to the low expectations that I did have.
 
Vader said:
I don't have particularly high expectations of Beech - for the very reasons you suggested.

I don't have particularly high expectations of Menzel either - but he's failed to live up to the low expectations that I did have.
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lol. How about Hampton then? Has he lived up to your low expectations?
 
Shaz2012 said:
Dont worry, I predict that Menzel will be an "extremely pleasant surprise" in the coming months.
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I wish I shared your faith.

Of the players we received during the 2015 trading period...
  • Gore has been a disappointment, but he's just living down to expectations. He was just the steak knives in the Dangerfield trade.
  • Menzel has been a disappointment, failing to meet even my lowest expectations. Came with a big reputation, but hasn't come close to living up to it.
  • Seedsman has lived up to expectations, but those expectations weren't overly high. He's a reasonably quick wing/HBF who existed on the fringe at Collingwood, and that remains the case at Adelaide. Serviceable, but doesn't materially improve the team.
  • Hampton has exceeded expectations - he couldn't get a gig in the GWS midfield so I didn't expect him to be much chop in ours. I knew he was quick, but his strength and ability to win the contested ball has been a revelation.
 
Vader said:
I wish I shared your faith.

Of the players we received during the 2015 trading period...
  • Gore has been a disappointment, but he's just living down to expectations. He was just the steak knives in the Dangerfield trade.
  • Menzel has been a disappointment, failing to meet even my lowest expectations. Came with a big reputation, but hasn't come close to living up to it.
  • Seedsman has lived up to expectations, but those expectations weren't overly high. He's a reasonably quick wing/HBF who existed on the fringe at Collingwood, and that remains the case at Adelaide. Serviceable, but doesn't materially improve the team.
  • Hampton has exceeded expectations - he couldn't get a gig in the GWS midfield so I didn't expect him to be much chop in ours. I knew he was quick, but his strength and ability to win the contested ball has been a revelation.
Click to expand...
Seedsman doesn't improve the team? Really? Given we seem to have our wings covered another speedy elite kicking half back flanker would be handy.
 

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Vader said:
I wish I shared your faith.

Of the players we received during the 2015 trading period...
  • Gore has been a disappointment, but he's just living down to expectations. He was just the steak knives in the Dangerfield trade.
  • Menzel has been a disappointment, failing to meet even my lowest expectations. Came with a big reputation, but hasn't come close to living up to it.
  • Seedsman has lived up to expectations, but those expectations weren't overly high. He's a reasonably quick wing/HBF who existed on the fringe at Collingwood, and that remains the case at Adelaide. Serviceable, but doesn't materially improve the team.
  • Hampton has exceeded expectations - he couldn't get a gig in the GWS midfield so I didn't expect him to be much chop in ours. I knew he was quick, but his strength and ability to win the contested ball has been a revelation.
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Do you expect every player getting traded in to become dangerfields?
 
deaneus said:
MOD NOTICE:

Politics goes in the politics thread
Football goes in the football thread

Posters putting politics in the football thread, will be forced to read the politics thread, or be gaven a day off for thread derailment. We are not having football thread derailed by insanely annoying posting about lefty, righty, SJWs, Nazis, etc.

Normal people don't want to read this stuff. That's why it's in the backyard. Please keep that in mind and post appropriately.
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Godwin's law.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
Elite Crow said:
Seedsman doesn't improve the team? Really? Given we seem to have our wings covered another speedy elite kicking half back flanker would be handy.
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I sort of feel he's not a big loss/not sure if he comes into the team without requiring another injury.

Could be wrong there though, either way, whether he's in the 22 or just out, handy for our depth either way.
 
Hey guys congratulations on your start to the season, looks like you'll be right up there when the whips are cracking.
Good to see the penny may have dropped for Menzel, that kid is a freak footballing talent, was one of my favourite players when he was at the blues, think your club is in a really strong position to develope Menzel into one of the best half forward flankers in the AFL, he certainly has that kind of talent.
 
1970crow said:
Which bit? It's too early to write off Menz as a player or that in the side as listed Gibbs would possibly be starting on the bench?
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I'd pay 2 firsts for sure, probably throw in a sweetener. Where do I sign?

That bit^^^^^^^



 
marty36 said:
If you look at the stats for this year, Mackay is easily in the top 12 players in the team, he is gaining some serious currency
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Strike while the irons hot. It won't last.
 
Rockford said:
Reportedly two first rounders. Which is overs, I agree. I still think there was a deal to be done and if you guys had offered your first, second and Atkins.. who knows what would've happened? I don't think he'd be your 3rd or 4th best mid. Who do you have ahead of Gibbs if he was on your list?
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Quoted for comedy value.

Atkins. Lol.
 
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