Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda, R9 2023

[FR0GGY]

Doesn’t really make sense as can’t call advantage from a mark

It should have been 50m penalty or play on

Yeah I’m not sure, he definitely says advantage though.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

How many more pages of shoulda coulda woulda?

I'll stop posting about a quirky thing that happened in a game that happened three days ago when you stop posting draft profiles to support your pre-conceived notions about players who have been in the system long enough to hit free agency.

*******.

 

[Mutineer]

I'll stop posting about a quirky thing that happened in a game that happened three days ago when you stop posting draft profiles to support your pre-conceived notions about players who have been in the system long enough to hit free agency.

*******.

Grom's video post shows conclusively what happened, there is no conjecture as much as people want to think there is. It's crystal clear on Grom's footage.

It was either a free to Pedlar which results in a Pedlar goal from point blank range or the Keays goal stands.

 

[FR0GGY]

Grom's video post shows conclusively what happened, there is no conjecture as much as people want to think there is. It's crystal clear on Grom's footage.

To be fair I posted pretty much on the first page the short clip.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'll stop posting about a quirky thing that happened in a game that happened three days ago when you stop posting draft profiles to support your pre-conceived notions about players who have been in the system long enough to hit free agency.

*******.

Back with a bang!

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yeah I’m not sure, he definitely says advantage though.

Yep - incorrect call by ump , must have been confused

 

[adelaidecrows]

This Pedlar/Keays goal piqued my interest on the weekend. There's a few different things at play that have been conflated a little in this discussion - 1. Pedlar's decision making, 2. The correct umpiring decision, 3. The actual umpiring decision.

First, whether Pedlar actually played on or not, it's clear that he intended to. That's a bad idea when you mark the ball one metre out, in the goal square. Just ask Nick Riewoldt. Go back and take the set shot Luke.

I should say good presence of mind by Keays to just kick the goal in case.

Second, what should the umpire have done? I reckon it's arguable whether or not Pedlar actually played on. He clearly was about to. But did he actually step past the mark beyond slowing his own momentum? Or go off his line? Or dispose of the ball? I think probably not, but it's arguable.

If he played on, then the ball spilled free. He wasn't tackled, so it's not holding the ball, it's just play on. Keays picks it up and goals and the right result happened.

If he didn't play on, then either Battle's contact is enough to justify a 50m penalty, or it's not. The only difference between those two options is whether the man on the mark ends up on the goal line or one metre out from it. Either way, it's Pedlar's kick. There can be no play on to advantage and Keays should not have been allowed to kick the goal.

The only way that the umpire's decision is right is if Pedlar played on.

Third, what did the umpire do? I haven't seen any footage that shows the arm signal to play on or audio of an umpire calling play on. On the reverse angle replay, it looks like the umpire is signalling a 50m penalty by making something similar to a signal for a 4 in cricket. Although there doesn't seem to be a particularly accepted signal for a 50m penalty.

If that's what he did, then it was clearly wrong to give the all clear for Keays to kick the goal. It should have been Pedlar's kick from the goal line.

It's all ultimately academic, but you'd hope the umpire's review picks up on this because next time it might matter. Edit: and there's a reasonable argument it might have cost Pedlar a Rising Star nom - 17 touches and 3 goals is harder to overlook than 16 and 2.

Pedlar didn't play on, but the ball was knocked out of his hand and Keays kicked it. My money was that the umpire just decided he'd played on after and he called advantage. Either way was a goal to the crows. There was no decision that prevented it. Thats why the saints player was confused. I think he thought Pedlar was going to go back for a kick. So there really wasn't an argument about playing on and holding the ball. In the end the correct decision was a goal line shot for goal but the playing advantage under he thought Pedlar played on works anyway but it was the wrong decision.

 

[Dangarman]

Changing the subject, apparently that was Parnell's one and only contested mark in his 13 games. Way to make it memorable!

 

[Mr_Moogle]

The last few pages.

 

[Samcro24]

Yeah there's no doubt. Doesnt look like he even thought about playing on. Should have been his goal.

 

[MRB37]

I'd say it's the same as the Lachie Sholl one in the Showdown. Whether he played on or not is irrelevant, you gotta play to the whistle and if the ump hasn't called it then you've given away a 50m penalty by interfering.

 

[George Kramer]

I'd say it's the same as the Lachie Sholl one in the Showdown. Whether he played on or not is irrelevant, you gotta play to the whistle and if the ump hasn't called it then you've given away a 50m penalty by interfering.

That’s it, I don’t know why this is even a debate

 

[Mr_Moogle]

He was pushed before the ball even leaves his hands (even if you believe he was going to kick it)
View attachment 1689561View attachment 1689560

He was pushed before it left his hands but the footage backs up the argument he intended to kick imo. Watch it closely frame by frame. In motion it looks like it happens at the same time but if you slow it down you can see his foot leave the ground and start to rotate into a kicking position just before Battle pushes his arm.

It’s exactly as I said, he doesn’t take a step and hasn’t played on.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? Vader
View attachment 1689507

 

[FR0GGY]

He was pushed before it left his hands but the footage backs up the argument he intended to kick imo. Watch it closely frame by frame. In motion it looks like it happens at the same time but if you slow it down you can see his foot leave the ground and start to rotate into a kicking position just before Battle pushes his arm.

It doesn’t really matter you can’t take it upon yourself to decide what a player is doing when they haven’t played on nor has the umpire called play on.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

It doesn’t really matter you can’t take it upon yourself to decide what a player is doing when they haven’t played on nor has the umpire called play on.

The umpire messed it up. If he hadn't called play on then its either a 50m penalty or they let it slide and he goes back and takes the kick. I was referring to the bit where you say "even if you believe he was going to kick it". It's clear in the footage. The position of his foot and the footy getting dislodged because he was about to drop it on his boot when Battle pushes his arm. I just can't fathom how anybody can watch this and not think he was about to kick.

 

[FR0GGY]

The umpire messed it up. If he hadn't called play on then its either a 50m penalty or they let it slide and he goes back and takes the kick. I was referring to the bit where you say "even if you believe he was going to kick it". It's clear in the footage. The position of his foot and the footy getting dislodged because he was about to drop it on his boot when Battle pushes his arm. I just can't fathom how anybody can watch this and not think he was about to kick.

It’s not a definite though, you can pull back from a kick.
That’s the problem with interfering with a player who has taken a mark, who hasn’t yet played on before they dispose of it.
You don’t actually know what they we’re going to do.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

It’s not a definite though, you can pull back from a kick.

There are so many give aways though. I mentioned his foot rotating but also compare the position of his hands from when he marked it to when Battle pushes his arm. If he didn't have a poor grip on the footy on account of being about to drop it on his boot, I doubt it gets dislodged in the first place as there wasn't much force in what Battle did.

 

[FR0GGY]

There are so many give aways though. I mentioned his foot rotating but also compare the position of his hands from when he marked it to when Battle pushes his arm. If he didn't have a poor grip on the footy on account of being about to drop it on his boot, I doubt it gets dislodged in the first place as there wasn't much force in what Battle did.

Looks like he’s about to handball.

 

[rocket18]

He was trying to kick, rather than take a step - but the left foot had definitely left the ground, with the clear intention of playing on.

His right foot was planted and closest to the goals.

Surely he can lift his left foot and bring it forward to be inline with his right foot - that is not play on. He has not gone infront of his mark.

 

[GrommoT]

... It's clear in the footage. The position of his foot and the footy getting dislodged because he was about to drop it on his boot when Battle pushes his arm. I just can't fathom how anybody can watch this and not think he was about to kick.

I think it's ambiguous at best. Consider that Luke's a left footer and in Froggy's posted video, there are two motions with his left foot (1) he takes a step back just before Saints player makes contact and (2) moves it forward after Saints player contact.

The initial first step is quite a large step and he puts his weight on it. If he was going to kick right away, I don't think he would have taken such a large step, he would have kept his weight on his right foot so he can pull his left foot back a bit and then kick forward.

The second motion of his left foot is just as likely to be due to the Saints player knocking him forward so he has to swing his left foot forward to keep his balance - can see this better in the gif I posted.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Or he played on

that's what I thought the call was
Cause it did look like he tried to, then he just fumbled it.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think it's ambiguous at best. Consider that Luke's a left footer and in Froggy's posted video, there are two motions with his left foot (1) he takes a step back just before Saints player makes contact and (2) moves it forward after Saints player contact.

The initial first step is quite a large step and he puts his weight on it. If he was going to kick right away, I don't think he would have taken such a large step, he would have kept his weight on his right foot so he can pull his left foot back a bit and then kick forward.

The second motion of his left foot is just as likely to be due to the Saints player knocking him forward so he has to swing his left foot forward to keep his balance - can see this better in the gif I posted.

I think your gif is pretty misleading as far as the contact with Battle goes. The dude barely touches him. It wouldn't have had any impact at all had it not been for Pedlar starting his ball drop right at the moment he makes contact. In your gif Pedlar leaning over to pick up the footy also looks like it's a part of the contact with Battle. I'm not sure why it looks this way tbh. For some reason it has this effect of making Pedlar look like he's being propelled forward by the contact when he really isn't. (also doesn't help that Keays is in the way)

 

[FR0GGY]

I think your gif is pretty misleading as far as the contact with Battle goes. The dude barely touches him. It wouldn't have had any impact at all had it not been for Pedlar starting his ball drop right after the moment he makes contact. In your gif Pedlar leaning over to pick up the footy also looks like it's a part of the contact with Battle. I'm not sure why it looks this way tbh. For some reason it has this effect of making Pedlar look like he's being propelled forward by the contact when he really isn't. (also doesn't help that Keays is in the way)

Which is the whole point.
You can’t do that.
It wasn’t 50 intentional but you can’t interfere until play on.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Which is the whole point.
You can’t do that.
It wasn’t 50 intentional but you can’t interfere until play on.

I know. Im not that interested in the umpiring part of this though. We got the goal. If it had been a rushed behind, I'd be more annoyed.

 

[GrommoT]

I think your gif is pretty misleading as far as the contact with Battle goes. The dude barely touches him. It wouldn't have had any impact at all had it not been for Pedlar starting his ball drop right at the moment he makes contact. In your gif Pedlar leaning over to pick up the footy also looks like it's a part of the contact with Battle. I'm not sure why it looks this way tbh. For some reason it has this effect of making Pedlar look like he's being propelled forward by the contact when he really isn't. (also doesn't help that Keays is in the way)

Think the Battle contact had an impact

Anyway, think time to give this a rest.