NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Chief]

Personally, I don't see how the nature of the review was intended to do anything other than protect Hawthorn from further criticism, by furthering the portrayal of the Riolis as making a mountain out of a molehill, as I believe they thought they wouldn't get significant negative feedback from the survey.

It's quite possible.

 

[Elixuh]

The review was announced not long after. Personally, I don't see how the nature of the review was intended to do anything other than protect Hawthorn from further criticism, by furthering the portrayal of the Riolis as making a mountain out of a molehill, as I believe they thought they wouldn't get significant negative feedback from the survey.

That is exactly what it was intended to do. And it isn’t hard to see that from the way the review was conceived, implemented and managed + Hawthorn having no idea what to do when the report was released to them.

I find it odd that some people like SYB believe Hawthorn had all these pure motives. They would not have gone down this path if they thought there was anything that would hurt their reputation, I mean we are talking about Kennett here lol. They thought it’d be like a nice little nothing to see here survey that they could reference publicly.

And at the end of the day what has the review actually achieved from a hawthorn systems and practices perspective - who knows?

 

[sr36]

That is exactly what it was intended to do. And it isn’t hard to see that from the way the review was conceived, implemented and managed + Hawthorn having no idea what to do when the report was released to them.

I find it odd that some people like SYB believe Hawthorn had all these pure motives. They would not have gone down this path if they thought there was anything that would hurt their reputation, I mean we are talking about Kennett here lol. They thought it’d be like a nice little nothing to see here survey that they could reference publicly.

And at the end of the day what has the review actually achieved from a hawthorn systems and practices perspective - who knows?

No doubt that Hawk supporters wanted something to bring the Riolis back into the fold.

But no idea how this mechanism that the club introduced could have conceivably done that.The Riolis were claiming that they were being gaslighted and portrayed as a pair of whingers who were imagining stuff. If the survey gave positive feedback from other players and families, it would have added weight to that portrayal. How would a survey with negative feedback have helped unite? In reality, we clearly saw how it would do the opposite.

I find it hard to believe what SYL is claiming - it just didn't appear to be suited to bringing the Riolis back - quite the opposite.

 

[Back One Out]

From the two reviews, I think we've learnt what clubs can and can't review successfully. Clubs can look at the way they've responded to issues involving racism and get recommendations for more inclusive practice. But neither clubs nor the AFL have the powers to investigate what non-public knowledge racist stuff has occurred.

Clubs can move forward to be more inclusive, but it's going to be really hard to acknowledge a lot of the shitty experiences that many indigenous players feel they've endured.

Yes, it's a been a veritable stampede from other clubs to have their own independent reviews into the experiences of their past indigenous players

Phil Egan has a full backlog of pending reviews to conduct which should see him through until 2025.

 

[Elixuh]

Yes, it's a been a veritable stampede from other clubs to have their own independent reviews into the experiences of their past indigenous players

Phil Egan has a full backlog of pending reviews to conduct which should see him through until 2025.

The only way to do it is via something that is AFL wide. Led by the AFL in collaboration with all of the clubs and conducted by a large prof services firm. Would be a huge cost but would be done correctly.

That will never be done though.

 

[sr36]

Yes, it's a been a veritable stampede from other clubs to have their own independent reviews into the experiences of their past indigenous players

Phil Egan has a full backlog of pending reviews to conduct which should see him through until 2025.

No idea what that observation has to do with my comment. I wasn't suggesting that there would be a stampede of publically announced reviews.

However, I don't think that many at Collingwood would be wishing our review away. And any club that isn't planning to or hasn't reviewed how they can improve their practices to be more inclusive and deal with potential racism more effectively is moronic.

Collingwood and Hawthorn were responding to negative stories and stupidly did press announced external reviews coming from a PR perspective - no-one is going there again, but they'll all be reviewing their practice. It'd be stupid not to.

 

[Soggy2112]

Playing devils advocate if it is proven to of been blatant racism what about that reaped them benefits?

Sorry, poorly worded.

I meant Clarkson and Fagan brought a lot of success to the club, which isn’t being taken away, so you also need to take responsibility for the negatives as well.

 

[Osho]

The only way to do it is via something that is AFL wide. Led by the AFL in collaboration with all of the clubs and conducted by a large prof services firm. Would be a huge cost but would be done correctly.

That will never be done though.

Much better the police review themselves, surreptitiously, to ensure process, and keep the lid on those rumours of abuse, than have an ombudsman coming in causing havoc, unpredictability, and discovery.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You got there on the last sentence. The Age article dropped. There was media pressure. If the primary goal was smoothing things with the Riolis they would have reviewed the Rioli claims. They didn't. They checked whether others felt similarly to the Riolis, expecting to find nothing because of what you've written about Burgoyne. That wasn't going to smooth things with the Riolis. That was going to sideline their complaints

Yeah this isn’t true. It’s why Caro shared text messages(with Riolis approval) that Sam Mitchell had written to Cyril to show that Mitchell was doing all that he could to rebuild the relationship and show the Rioli’s that the club was taking the steps that they wanted to see happen.

 

[sr36]

Yeah this isn’t true. It’s why Caro shared text messages(with Riolis approval) that Sam Mitchell had written to Cyril to show that Mitchell was doing all that he could to rebuild the relationship and show the Rioli’s that the club was taking the steps that they wanted to see happen.

The Riolis were claiming they were being gaslit and that Sam was being portrayed in the press as a trouble making angry black woman.

How does the press respond to the Riolis if the survey did come back without concerns from other players?

How was validation of their complaints with the survey results they got going to help to repair the relationship.

How was this style of review going to help mend the relationship? I don't get the logic.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The Riolis were claiming they were being gaslit and that Sam was being portrayed in the press as a trouble making angry black woman.

How does the press respond to the Riolis if the survey did come back without concerns from other players?

How was validation of their complaints with the survey results they got going to help to repair the relationship.

How was this style of review going to help mend the relationship? I don't get the logic.

Quite simply, Mitchell was already working on mending the relationship in December of 2021.

The idea that Mitchell or the club just wanted Rioli to be proven wrong is ridiculous. They desperately wanted one of our most loved players to feel like we were doing everything in our power to right the wrongs of that period.

Sam spoke to Cyril, told him that we’d heard his words, that he was trying to make change as the new coach and that we would go away and do work on it with the other First Nations players on the list(see the texts below).

When the allegations from the Riolis were printed months later the club recognised that something more needed to be done and that the Rioli’s experiences needed to be validated against others to understand the full picture of what life at Hawthorn was like for young First Nations players.

This was all about learning and improving with an eye on rebuilding the relationship with the Rioli’s. I just cannot fathom how anyone can see it any other way when Rioli is/was as loved as he is by every Hawthorn person.

Go to the 5 minute mark.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Clarkson was trying to mend the relationship the whole time Kennett was racially abusing Rioli, his wife, Buddy et al. This was acknowledged by Rioli and his wife. Nice try though Costanza.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clarkson was trying to mend the relationship the whole time Kennett was racially abusing Rioli, his wife, Buddy et al. This was acknowledged by Rioli and his wife. Nice try though Costanza.

What an odd response, considering I never even mentioned Clarkson.

What is even more stranger is that Rioli has obviously made some very pointed comments towards Clarkson since.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

What an odd response, considering I never even mentioned Clarkson.

What is even more stranger is that Rioli has obviously made some very pointed comments towards Clarkson since.

Yeah he and his wife must have lied throughout his whole career.

 

[Stars align]

Yes, it's a been a veritable stampede from other clubs to have their own independent reviews into the experiences of their past indigenous players

Phil Egan has a full backlog of pending reviews to conduct which should see him through until 2025.

Think Phil might be a bit busy to be conducting anymore interviews

 

[blackshadow]

73 charges.

Well, well, well.

 

[Back One Out]

Think Phil might be a bit busy to be conducting anymore interviews

Might have to wait until 2030

 

[apollo_creed]

Good week for Clarko to coach his 400th and return.

 

[blackshadow]

Saint Rusty the Brave is very quiet on the matter.

I see the ABC has farmed it out to a rural reporter.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

73 charges.

Well, well, well.

There goes any tiny shred of integrity left for his review/investigation/cultural safety report (did we ever land on what exactly it was?)

A quite frankly amueturish piece of work completed by an alleged fraudster. What a combo

Whole thing has become an absolute farce, no wonder all the reputable media outlets (no ABC that doesn't include you) have gone silent on this.

 

[apollo_creed]

Clarko's arrived at Arden Street for training:

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

I sense someone lacing up their runners.

Wouldn't want to be a slab of pavement in Clifton Hill today.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Might have to wait until 2030

2030 with good behaviour I'd say

 

[just ask!!!]

No need to say anymore on this matter. Case closed.

 

[Chief]

73 charges.

Well, well, well.

You'll have to link for the rest of us.