NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[SunshineBoy]

Let's be real. If he had gone to the AFL, they would've done everything they could to bury it and stick it in a drawer. Look at the report they commissioned regarding female umpires. Managed to keep that buried for 6 months before some.of the more damning comments got out (and according to a late night caller on SEN who is said she was part of the female umpiring community, nothing has actually been done to address the issues raised in the report). They tried giving the bombers a slap on the wrist for the drugs saga until WADA/ASADA said no go.

If you think the AFL actually has integrity or care about a fair competition than I have a non existent house to sell you. They care about their brand and money as first and foremost. Clubs, especially the bigger ones drive that

This

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Fagan is pretty strong in his statements.

"I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club. I have had very positive relationships with First Nations players throughout my many years in football, and, indeed players from different racial and ethnic groups.

"I intend to defend myself. It is my hope that people will judge me based upon the way I actually conduct myself and not by what is written in the media. I support and welcome the investigation announced by the AFL yesterday. I intend to participate fully in the investigation and look forward to being heard and being accorded due process and fairness.

 

[maroon and blue]

Hard to watch those sanctimonious vile lying vermin on that show. Everyone who has accused Chris Fagan should have to publicly grovel and ask for forgiveness for their bastardy. Everyone.

 

[mcnulty]

What’s the point then ?


Sport is racist because black people are good at it

Mate it was just a point about how things like the draft commodify athletes. In the clip I posted a white player compared it to a cattle market. You have a value placed on your head, you get NO choice in where you get to go and limited bargaining capacity, at least initially.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Fagan is pretty strong in his statements.

"I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club. I have had very positive relationships with First Nations players throughout my many years in football, and, indeed players from different racial and ethnic groups.

"I intend to defend myself. It is my hope that people will judge me based upon the way I actually conduct myself and not by what is written in the media. I support and welcome the investigation announced by the AFL yesterday. I intend to participate fully in the investigation and look forward to being heard and being accorded due process and fairness.

It won’t matter, they have already been found guilty.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I have read today's HUN and wow, I didn't even know another player's partner had a miscarriage after she was cut off (allegedly) by Clarkson a few weeks later.

It's pretty easy to get documented medical certificates or statements from the Doctor(s) who performed the abortion and treated the poor lassie who miscarried (and or hospitals/clinics)

Clarkson is absolutely toast (if these allegations are true, but I strongly believe they are)
Disgraceful human being. He has ruined lives and families.

 

[mcnulty]

Fagan is pretty strong in his statements.

"I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club. I have had very positive relationships with First Nations players throughout my many years in football, and, indeed players from different racial and ethnic groups.

"I intend to defend myself. It is my hope that people will judge me based upon the way I actually conduct myself and not by what is written in the media. I support and welcome the investigation announced by the AFL yesterday. I intend to participate fully in the investigation and look forward to being heard and being accorded due process and fairness.

Yep. This is going to get ugly.

 

[Kwality]

You don't honestly think the toxic Stolen Generation committed by the church and government of Australia back then is not a form of Apartheid?

Australia's treatment of our Indigenous People since the Poms settled here is something that has always shocked and appalled the International Community, even Americans.

It's a blight on our nation's history that will never go away.

Tossing around apartheid lessens the impact. Bit like the use of Nazi.

 

[GC2015]

That would be a huge shock. Bloody hope not!

I don't know if Ratten is implicated in any way but being on the Hawks coaching staff at the time of these alleged incidents obviously means there's a possibility.

 

[MF]

Why do almost everyone believe this? It’s an allegation at this stage. Is everyone to scared to say, let’s wait and see if this is true or not?

We're not jury members here, we're not handing down a verdict. We don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these things are true, we just need to use common sense. And anyone with a skerrick of it can see there is a problem here.

Clarkson & Fagan will get their due process and their chance to tell their side of the story before any actual punishment comes down. But that doesn't mean your average person can't have a very informed opinion based upon the facts we know so far.

I didn't wait for the OJ Simpson verdict to come down before I made up my own mind.

 

[kranky al]

Let's be real. If he had gone to the AFL, they would've done everything they could to bury it and stick it in a drawer. Look at the report they commissioned regarding female umpires. Managed to keep that buried for 6 months before some.of the more damning comments got out (and according to a late night caller on SEN who is said she was part of the female umpiring community, nothing has actually been done to address the issues raised in the report). They tried giving the bombers a slap on the wrist for the drugs saga until WADA/ASADA said no go.

If you think the AFL actually has integrity or care about a fair competition than I have a non existent house to sell you. They care about their brand and money as first and foremost. Clubs, especially the bigger ones drive that

So much this.

 

[tonygeeks]

Mate it was just a point about how things like the draft commodify athletes. In the clip I posted a white player compared it to a cattle market. You have a value placed on your head, you get NO choice in where you get to go and limited bargaining capacity, at least initially.

I understand why you posted it but the person who wrote that is dribbling

Course you get a choice where you go , you can say “ nah not for me “ and go do what ever you want

To equate people kidnapped and dragged somewhere in chains to people competing for some of the most highly sort after jobs in the world is just insane

 

[Curly5]

Mate it was just a point about how things like the draft commodify athletes. In the clip I posted a white player compared it to a cattle market. You have a value placed on your head, you get NO choice in where you get to go and limited bargaining capacity, at least initially.

Read Tom Boyd's book. Coaches say all sorts of things to players.

 

[Kwality]

What worries me about this case is that the victims who are least emotionally equipped to deal with the fall out may be too scared or daunted by the thought of a drawn out legal battle .

As you say the coaches will have KCs (King’s Counsel) as pit bulls constantly nipping at them using the courts and public arena a to diminish , minimise and outright deny anything the victims say.

The victims will end up being on trial and re traumatised yet again.

& the media know all of that when they decide to publish.

 

[SunshineBoy]

It won’t matter, they have already been found guilty.

In. The court 0f public opinion they have , but give it a few years clarkson will be back

 

[sr36]

Just to get drafted now, you'd want to come from a "good family" and be in the private school system.

Talented young footballers get private school scholarships, so that half of it is unavoidable.

 

[kranky al]

Tossing around apartheid lessens the impact. Bit like the use of Nazi.

Massacres went in well into the 20th century.

How would YOU describle massacring men women and children based on the colour of their skin?

Id say somewhere between apartheid and nazism on a sliding scale closer to nazism.

 

[bisazc887]

A journalist repeating the stories of 3 different couples, all with eerily similar stories*
Clarkson has not rejected and denied any of the allegations. He has denied any misconduct or wrongdoing.*

At least Fagan has , clarkos response is just a pre scripted lawyers spiel

 

[gordo2016]

I wonder if that’s Laurie Burts son, Laurie was captain of Coburg for many years and was also a teacher, was actually my teacher and you couldn’t meet a better man.

Yer, Uncle played for Coburg in the late 70's and spoke very highly of Laurie. Top player. I remember my uncle introducing him to me in the rooms after a game. Did a google search and Jason isn't his son.

 

[pugsville]

And get paid millions of dollars to play sport...

A small minority of those embarking on that career path. The College system amateur system wehre everybody but the athletes make very good money, and the athletes have to sacrifice so much, many paying high price along the way. The system of US sport relies on a large pool of people being pretty ruthlessly exploited for a fair time before a lucky few make huge money.

 

[Soggy2112]

& the media know all of that when they decide to publish.

The sad reality is that the media is sometimes the only way for a victim to have their side heard.

One of the anonymous sources discussed multiple suicide attempts. It would simply not be safe for that person to go through what would happen if they publicly put their name to these claims. Anonymously going to the media may be the only way of highlighting this issue.

This doesn’t mean everything written is automatically true. But it’s a very legitimate possible reason why this story has come out in the manner it has.

 

[mcnulty]

A small minority of those embarking on that career path. The College system amateur system wehre everybody but the athletes make very good money, and the athletes have to sacrifice so much, many paying high price along the way. The system of US sport relies on a large pool of people being pretty ruthlessly exploited for a fair time before a lucky few make huge money.

Correct. And most of those are done and dusted before they get to become free agents and negotiate a big pay day for themselves. The money they start on might seem a lot but most of them are making it briefly.

 

[Kwality]

Plenty of indigenous boys have good educations at private schools.

Just edited to add: it's probably good for the ones that do go off to boarding school as it gets them used to being away from home. It's no doubt a shock at first (I guess it is for most boarders). But the kids who come straight into the system from remote communities are at risk of severe displacement, and the clubs are at risk if they draft them.

Kids from boarding schools have an extra string to their bow come draft day, regardless of heritage.

 

[Kwality]

The sad reality is that the media is sometimes the only way for a victim to have their side heard.

One of the anonymous sources discussed multiple suicide attempts. It would simply not be safe for that person to go through what would happen if they publicly put their name to these claims. Anonymously going to the media may be the only way of highlighting this issue.

This doesn’t mean everything written is automatically true. But it’s a very legitimate possible reason why this story has come out in the manner it has.

I'd guess the ABC decision to publish was due to another media outlet talking to the sources.

 

[Rob]

Yep. This is going to get ugly.

Yeah I can see it happening. If this turns in to one word against another there are going to be plenty of people that will take sides.

What if, and stay with me here, the allegations are simply made up? Plenty of footballers leave their club with a chip on their shoulder and carry some regret about their careers for a while. A lot blame the coach. I'm not going to put a figure on how likely that is - I suspect it's not very likely at all - but it's at least plausible.

On another point, why didn't the journo at least contact Clarkson and Fagan for comment first? Seems like the ethical thing to do.