NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Corleone]

It’s a great outcome that probably starts a completely new way of managing player welfare. Yet all the commentary is various versions of Clarko being called everything (from a grub to a psychopath) and complete dismissal of his 20 years of selfless human led impact into AFL and the community.

Wow.

He coached some flags and got paid handsomely to do so ... "20 years of selfless human led impact into AFL and the community" ... Give it a spell ... If only he'd turned his saintly powers to curing cancer or solving the crisis in the middle east, but I suppose even the great Clarko can only do so much in one lifetime ...

 

[H2F]

Even if 10% of it is true, they shouldn't be near the sport.

What if it’s zero percent true.

 

[Bad Seed]

What if it’s zero percent true.

Then they will have proven that 3 seperate accounts were completely fabricated and likely there have been ex-players that have colluded against him. Do you believe that? Because it is the alternative.

 

[H2F]

Wow.

He coached some flags and got paid handsomely to do so ... "20 years of selfless human led impact into AFL and the community" ... Give it a spell ... If only he'd turned his saintly powers to curing cancer or solving the crisis in the middle east, but I suppose even the great Clarko can only do so much in one lifetime ...

As a Hawk fan and knowing a few people inside the club I heard so many stories. He did a lot of good things mate. A lot.

Again I’m not suggesting anything here other than me repeating how good the process was by Hawthorn, how awful it is that players and families felt trauma by the club and lastly until a formal investigation is completed I despised at how Clarko is being depicted in here.

 

[H2F]

Then they will have proven that 3 seperate accounts were completely fabricated and likely there have been ex-players that have colluded against him. Do you believe that? Because it is the alternative.

I’m speaking of the abortion claim.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Ok I’ll give you those despite the fact that the most egregious of them are now 30yrs old and happened in an environment that essentially sanctioned that sort of behaviour. I can’t take the leap from those handful of indiscretion to clarkson demanding that a young player under his charge have an abortion though.

How do explain Fagan’s alleged active involvement in this allegation also? Have you prepared your hit list for him also? You’d be hard pressed to find evidence of him swatting a fly I should think. He seems to have lapsed intermittently into a psychopath along that journey though. Split personality? Narcissistic personality disorder?

You honestly need to look much more scrupulously at the character of your supposed hero figures. No one has deemed that Fagan has lapsed intermittently into a psychopath, but what you've observed of him at a surface level, is not all that he is. You can take for gospel the glowing "like a father" endorsements he receives from a handful of impressionable young men, or you can carefully observe the erratic, aggressive behaviour he displays on the boundary line on a weekly basis. The moron is often seen acting in a belligerent and unhinged manner when conversing with his support staff via his headset.

As for the POS that is Clarkson, well I see that you've conveniently trivialised such incidents as aggressively grabbing at the throat of an opposition fan and having to be held back by his playing group, as he furiously fronted select players from the opposition team, whilst acting in the capacity of a coach. A handful of indiscretions indeed!

 

[Bad Seed]

I’m speaking of the abortion claim.

The abortion claim is but one part. I'm talking about the whole thing.

 

[H2F]

Clarkson admitted his racist past in The Age, 2011. Article by Michael Gleeson. He is quoted. “I remember my attitude to it too was terrible”. Look it up, and then check out the meaning of ‘certainly’. We need to open our eyes. X

See that’s what I’m saying. Clarko admitted that back then because he was as were most of society. Difference is he admitted it. He’s that kind of person, hence the outcomes I suggested will play out. He’ll likely take the fall than hurt a player he coached. I am certain he will tell the truth, and am waiting to hear what that is.

 

[H2F]

You honestly need to look much more scrupulously at the character of your supposed hero figures. No one has deemed that Fagan has lapsed intermittently into a psychopath, but what you've observed of him at a surface level, is not all that he is. You can take for gospel the glowing "like a father" endorsements he receives from a handful of impressionable young men, or you can carefully observe the erratic, aggressive behaviour he displays on the boundary line on a weekly basis. The moron is often seen acting in a belligerent and unhinged manner when conversing with his support staff via his headset.

As for the POS that is Clarkson, well I see that you've conveniently trivialised such incidents as aggressively grabbing at the throat of an opposition fan and having to be held back by his playing group, as he furiously fronted select players from the opposition team, whilst acting in the capacity of a coach. A handful of indiscretions indeed!

That’s how he was. You messed with his players and he went to war for them. Not a bad leadership style in my opinion.

 

[H2F]

The abortion claim is but one part. I'm talking about the whole thing.

The SIM cards, the distance from partners. Can you be specific if you want me to address them. Because it’s important to note that the abortion allegation is from one player who like I said communicated it in a manner where there should have been plenty of witnesses. What if no one remembers it and Clarko denies it. To comment on the other issues can you be more specific?

 

[WaywardSonSon]

That’s how he was. You messed with his players and he went to war for them. Not a bad leadership style in my opinion.

Wow, you really have been brainwashed. What a wonderful leadership style. It should be aspired to and emulated by all and sundry that are vying for Clarkson's fabled throne. I wonder why Chris Scott hasn't thought to "go to war" for his players this year? Stumped if I know!

 

[sr36]

I would assume that all three would have been intertwined with one requiring some degree of sacrifice for the other. You do realise that other players on our list had families during their tenure at the club (including indigenous players)? It’s not like having babies was viewed as detrimental to the success of the squad. The family involvement drum was beaten incessantly to the point that most supporters could tell you the names of the players partners and kids. As a life long hawthorn supporter and observer of that culture for 17yrs under clarkson none of that squares with allegations of him “forcing” players to abort babies. Whatever the truth is something has got lost in translation with that allegation.

Your defence isn't a good one. How often are those who push family values the most non-inclusive? How often are family value pushers talking exclusively about the nuclear family and dismissive of all other notions of family. Eg, notions of much larger family units that have traditionally been held by many indigenous Australians. I'm not saying that this nuclear family man describes Clarko, but you're increasing suspicion in my eyes.

 

[H2F]

Wow, you really have been brainwashed. What a wonderful leadership style. It should be aspired to and emulated by all and sundry that are vying for Clarkson's fabled throne. I wonder why Chris Scott hasn't thought to "go to war" for his players this year? Stumped if I know!

When you literally break down points and miss his whole style and intent it sounds ridiculous so I just added some context for you. This isn’t me covering up for my hero coach, this is very serious and critically important steps forward for the AFL, players and their families. Part of this is to show some freaking respect to one of the all time great coaches, who was loved by his players and loved them back. He deserves an investigation before being portrayed as a grub. Disgusting stuff.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

When you literally break down points and miss his whole style and intent it sounds ridiculous so I just added some context for you. This isn’t me covering up for my hero coach, this is very serious and critically important steps forward for the AFL, players and their families. Part of this is to show some freaking respect to one of the all time great coaches, who was loved by his players and loved them back. He deserves an investigation before being portrayed as a grub. Disgusting stuff.

He's not being portrayed as a grub...he literally is a grub. Do I need to link you to every one of his ridiculous indiscretions? His aggressive assault on an opposition fan, verbally abusing an amateur-level umpire at his son's football match, verbally assaulting a television reporter, coward punching an opposition player etc.
I don't give a flying f*ck how successful he was as a coach and to what degree his playing groups loved him. As a human being, he's a disgrace. It's not hard to be a respectable citizen. He isn't one.

 

[sr36]

That’s what I’ve been thinking too. Clarko is such a selfless person it’s possible he will stand down from coaching regardless. He’s likely to blame himself for any and all trauma players felt there regardless of some of the details and whether or not he was wrong. He’s that kind of guy. One thing he isn’t I’ve seen this 20 years is a liar.

I believe there are only three possibilities here with respect to the abortion

1) He spoke to the player and genuinely offered him advice he thought would help him. Not an order, advice

2) He did do it and if so will admit it and resign himself

3) It’s not true.

If it’s one or two I believe he will resign. It it’s three I reckon he will struggle hard with it. He will not want to out the player and will still somehow blame himself.

He’s a lot of things but unless he’s the greatest actor of all time, he has and always will love his players more than himself.

He may have all of these wonderful attributes. But he still may have been culturally prejudiced and believed that he needed to separate some young kids from their indigenous communities in order for them to succeed and he may still believe he was doing what was in their best interests. The real world isn't Disney where characters either do no wrong or no right.

 

[Lads2023]

I would assume that all three would have been intertwined with one requiring some degree of sacrifice for the other. You do realise that other players on our list had families during their tenure at the club (including indigenous players)? It’s not like having babies was viewed as detrimental to the success of the squad. The family involvement drum was beaten incessantly to the point that most supporters could tell you the names of the players partners and kids. As a life long hawthorn supporter and observer of that culture for 17yrs under clarkson none of that squares with allegations of him “forcing” players to abort babies. Whatever the truth is something has got lost in translation with that allegation.

Perception (your own observation) and reality are two very different things.

Even your own workplace might appear to be all smiles and people laughing everyday. Behind the scenes can be a completely different story

 

[H2F]

He's not being portrayed as a grub...he literally is a grub. Do I need to link you to every one of his ridiculous indiscretions? His aggressive assault on an opposition fan, verbally abusing an amateur-level umpire at his son's football match, verbally assaulting a television reporter, coward punching an opposition player etc.
I don't give a flying f*ck how successful he was as a coach and to what degree his playing groups loved him. As a human being, he's a disgrace. It's not hard to be a respectable citizen. He isn't one.

So every player in the 70’s who punched someone was a s**t person. Mate that was the sport those days. His verbal abuse of an amateur umpire wasn’t over a poor decision there was more to that story, but I’m getting into it now. Reporters are scum so good on him I’m for sticking it to them for making up trash. If that’s his rap sheet vs hundreds of hours of community service, rebuilding fences for effected bushfire families, helping young footballers become the best they could be, creating a generation of coaches under him that have succeeded across a multitude of clubs and then having every single player including Burgoyne come out and say the opposite of your view, then I’m glad you don’t have a job as a judge, police officer, or people manager. We all make mistakes in our life, but until I know that he did do these things I’ll judge him on what I’ve seen thank you.

 

[H2F]

#InClarkoWeTrust

Alright so plenty of you seem to believe Clarko a grub and that he would tell a player to get an abortion and disconnect with his partner. Swap his SIM card and then put him under house arrest with another coach.

If any of that is true he will never coach again, nor should he and I feel deep sadness beyond belief for the player.

If it isn’t true, I hope some of you remember these posts and unwillingness to let the process follow its course because it’s pretty awful to me that seems to be the theme here.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Has anyone considered the fact that the abortion story just isn’t true. I am not suggesting that, but let’s just imagine that it isn’t true.

How do you imagine Clarko or Fagan feeling right now?

As I said I’m not suggesting that, but I’m typing it because it seems like so many on here refuse to admit it is possible. If it’s not true, then I hope the two of them get the support they deserve too. Given the alleged player came to training to share the story with team mates and coaches, you’d imagine there would be some people who remember this. What if no one remembers it, what is Clarko and Fagan deny it. What happens then? The more this goes on the more I’m stunned by the commentary. Players told stories of pain and trauma and we need to hear them and we need to get far better at protecting them (all players). But we also need to know what happened to do that. It is possible it’s not true. What if a player told his partner the club said she had to abort because he wanted that. It’s possible isn’t it? Again I’m not suggesting this, but for those just hanging to chop the head of Clarko when he hasn’t had the chance to be interviewed, where witnesses and evidence hasn’t been collected there is something wrong with you.

Yeah, nah. You are suggesting that.

I’d also suggest if Clarko went to Essendon you’d have plenty of Bombers fans hoping it’s not true either. Footy is a strange thing at times, this issue has shown all the worst sides of it for me. We have people slandering Hawthorn for commissioning a fantastic process that now all clubs should follow. We’ve seen complete transparency in it being escalated to the AFL to help with the disturbing findings. We’ve seen the two coaches at the centre step down to fully participate in the process.

It’s a great outcome that probably starts a completely new way of managing player welfare. Yet all the commentary is various versions of Clarko being called everything (from a grub to a psychopath) and complete dismissal of his 20 years of selfless human led impact into AFL and the community.

All without the formal investigation having even started. Why even have an investigation, let’s just sack him and Fagan now, the people have spoken and if you don’t agree with this you are a racist.

It's a "day of pride" for Hawthorn.

Clarko is such a selfless person

No he isn't.

What if it’s zero percent true.

But you're not suggesting that.

As a Hawk fan and knowing a few people inside the club I heard so many stories. He did a lot of good things mate. A lot.

Again I’m not suggesting anything here other than me repeating how good the process was by Hawthorn, how awful it is that players and families felt trauma by the club and lastly until a formal investigation is completed I despised at how Clarko is being depicted in here.

People can do good things and bad things.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

So every player in the 70’s who punched someone was a s**t person. Mate that was the sport those days. His verbal abuse of an amateur umpire wasn’t over a poor decision there was more to that story, but I’m getting into it now. Reporters are scum so good on him I’m for sticking it to them for making up trash. If that’s his rap sheet vs hundreds of hours of community service, rebuilding fences for effected bushfire families, helping young footballers become the best they could be, creating a generation of coaches under him that have succeeded across a multitude of clubs and then having every single player including Burgoyne come out and say the opposite of your view, then I’m glad you don’t have a job as a judge, police officer, or people manager. We all make mistakes in our life, but until I know that he did do these things I’ll judge him on what I’ve seen thank you.

Put down the Koolade "mate". Did he punch someone in the 70's, did he? No he didn't, he coward punched someone in the 70's. Did I state that the verbal abuse was relating to a poor decision, did I? Stop putting words in my mouth, and no, there is never a valid reason to verbally abuse and swear at an umpire. Especially not when you're supposed to be setting an example as a male role model for your own son! Nice to see you're generalising the entire profession that is sports journalism - nice work there! Have you ever stopped to consider that d*ckheads are still capable of doing some nice things, but it still doesn't mean they're not bad people? It's not a difficult concept to understand.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Sorry to have to repeat this. But read the account! Its on ABC. It's quite detailed about what was done and said. You can try and imagine all sorts of alternative, nuanced, complicated scenarios, but the account states quite explicitly that he was really happy with the news, went into the club expecting it to be a great day and was confronted by coaches telling him they didn't want him to have a relationship or a kid. The only "father figure" I can think of in that scenario is Chronos, or Agamemnon.

I’ve read the story. You can choose to assume everything you’ve read from 7-8 years ago is EXACTLY how it happened without ANY chance there may be a slightly different version of events. Some people choose to hear all sides and that’s what I’ll do.


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[H2F]

Incorrect. Most of us (if not all) believe there should be a fair process.

The hawks fans suggesting ‘there’s no way it’s true based on what they have seen’ or ‘clarkson would never do that’ is naive

Fair enough but I’ve never said anything like there is no way it’s true. That’s a terrible thing to suggest. What I have said is his personality (he appears an Empath) makes it all the more important to uncover the truth because whatever happened people were hurt badly by this and we have to get better with how players are looked after at footy clubs.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Its a report commissioned by Hawthorn regarding indigenous player feedback, with strict conditions made by Hawthorn that only indigenous players be contacted. The ABC only reported on a report that already existed. It was not their job or role to research the research of a report - they are reporting on the report, as it exist.

The ABC contacted the 3 coaches for comment and they did not respond

The breakdown between the relationship of Cyril and the club revolved around the clubs treatment of aboriginal players.

You have NFI where you are at with this.

It’s my understanding the ABC report was done independently of Hawthorns report so has many accusations to come that are not related at all to info Hawthorn have gathered. So the ABC report is not just a report of a report at all.


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[H2F]

It’s my understanding the ABC report was done independently of Hawthorns report so has many accusations to come that are not related at all to info Hawthorn have gathered. So the ABC report is not just a report of a report at all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

So the ABC decided to do their own one? Really. Seems a bizarre thing to do.

 

[Noidnadroj]

He's not being portrayed as a grub...he literally is a grub. Do I need to link you to every one of his ridiculous indiscretions? His aggressive assault on an opposition fan, verbally abusing an amateur-level umpire at his son's football match, verbally assaulting a television reporter, coward punching an opposition player etc.
I don't give a flying f*ck how successful he was as a coach and to what degree his playing groups loved him. As a human being, he's a disgrace. It's not hard to be a respectable citizen. He isn't one.

It’s hard to reconcile a ‘disgraceful human being’ being loved by almost every player and assistant coach who is ever asked about their time under Clarkson. Disgraceful human beings aren’t loved, let alone respected.


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