NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[mcnulty]

Good response

How else do you respond to that???? Staggering stuff

 

[gordo2016]

No, the email (and the reply, if genuine) may confirm that at least one of the allegations was made contemporaneously. Nothing more, at this stage.

Oh, contemporaneously, such an impressive word. Can't see why you would use it on here though, unless you were trying to big note yourself and make out you were someone you're not.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Wow. Just wow…

100% true!!!

Our legal system sucks, it's a game

 

[mcnulty]

100% true!!!

Our legal system sucks, it's a game

It’s the best we have.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

It’s the best we have.

I disagree! It's just what we've got, having inherited the British system

Give me the inquisitorial system any day, more likely to get to the TRUTH

 

[kingswood71]

Wow. Just wow…

What he said was 100% correct. Would you be happy if in a defamation case, they found in someones favour, that it was 51% more probable that something was true than not true?
Even in a criminal trial. its beyond "reasonable" doubt, not ALL doubt......

 

[Choc Milk]

SiCk ClUB SePaRateS YoUnG PlAYEr FRoM HIs Mates

AFL champion Dane Swan lists property that Collingwood made him buy - realestate.com.au

Collingwood champion Dane Swan has listed the first home he bought when the club “kicked” him out of living with his mates. See inside.

www.realestate.com.au

An example of a club forcing a young player to do what's best for him.

This isn't a troll, this is an example of how indigenous people are treated differently and I believe to their detriment.

 

[fishardansin]

How else do you respond to that???? Staggering stuff

If you think that courts are about the truth you probably also think that govt ministers and shadow ministers all argue from the heart with a high degree of intellectual honesty, and aren't captured by "party discipline".

 

[tassietime]

It proves that something happened as well, otherwise the reply would have dismissed it

No, it proves (if genuine) someone sent an email making a claim and someone provided a response. Nothing more.

 

[mcnulty]

What he said was 100% correct. Would you be happy if in a defamation case, they found in someones favour, that it was 51% more probable that something was true than not true?
Even in a criminal trial. its beyond "reasonable" doubt, not ALL doubt......

Wut? And you think there’s another mechanism to find the truth beyond ALL doubt?

 

[Saint]

SiCk ClUB SePaRateS YoUnG PlAYEr FRoM HIs Mates

AFL champion Dane Swan lists property that Collingwood made him buy - realestate.com.au

Collingwood champion Dane Swan has listed the first home he bought when the club “kicked” him out of living with his mates. See inside.

www.realestate.com.au

An example of a club forcing a young player to do what's best for him.

Oh yeah, and what if they delisted him and he couldn't afford the repayments. If they actually advised him on financial matters, he could sue them. Unless the advice was from financial planners. Of course, if he's delisted and can't afford his house, he also can't afford to sue them. Funny how that power imbalance which starts at the club doesn't stop there.

Honestly, does nobody work in a job and understand that employers shouldn't be involved in any of this stuff at all, unless they appoint professionals to provide that advice?

 

[gouki88]

It’s the best we have.

What a silly comment. Guess we shouldn’t criticise it then?

 

[Crankyhawk]

More of the report has been leaked.

Thanks for that

Some of the redaction doesn't make sense eg redacting the reference about yarning (the name of journal) not sure what is being "protected there". Or which organisation is reaching out to RMIT on behalf of the players (my assumption is that it is binmada themselves)
Others of course make sense (in terms of players/ coaches)

 

[mcnulty]

What a silly comment. Guess we shouldn’t criticise it then?

You can criticise it all you like. Lord knows I have. But it’s the one we have, and should be available to all of us.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Report finding Point 2 - Give us $$$$$$$$$$$$

reparations for harms caused makes sense, I don't know what else could be done that helps now.
(and point 2 also mentioned a public apology)

 

[gouki88]

You can criticise it all you like. Lord knows I have. But it’s the one we have, and should be available to all of us.

It should be available to us all. Too bad it’s systematically against certain peoples

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Finally the AFL have a problem they won't be able to smooth over so they come out looking sweet.

The Newbold email and his response show this really did happen. There will be very high profile casualties, as there should.

AFL is a corrupt boys club but have met their match this time in the brave players who have finally spoken out.

Will be a fascinating but heart wrenching watch, will over shadow the 2023 season, no quick AFL fix this time.

Just on the Newbold email, he’s denied that he sent it and I’ve read posts from others declaring that the format, the texts changes and the fact he’d respond on his phone suggest that it’s been doctored or is fake.

I’m no expert on whether that is true or not, but the fact people are saying it or think it adds another level of s**t*ery to this cluster*.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I am starting to wonder who knew about this and for how long.

I reckon Gil and HFC knew the details before the report was even commissioned.

Im not convinced that HFC knew before it was commissioned, as then the approach would likely have been to bury Riolis claims and not actually commission a report. As in if HFC knew what is the gain for doing a report?

 

[nineteen eighty]

SiCk ClUB SePaRateS YoUnG PlAYEr FRoM HIs Mates

AFL champion Dane Swan lists property that Collingwood made him buy - realestate.com.au

Collingwood champion Dane Swan has listed the first home he bought when the club “kicked” him out of living with his mates. See inside.

www.realestate.com.au

An example of a club forcing a young player to do what's best for him.

This isn't a troll, this is an example of how indigenous people are treated differently and I believe to their detriment.

And every club would have bucket loads of similar examples.

Let's see where on the outrage meter this sits.

I do find it a tad hypocritical (well more than a tad) around the outrage on the topic at hand compared to the opposite reaction to the Goodes issue. Goodes was an easy target and so quite a few of the outraged posters in this thread were happy to put their position forward that all the actions weren't racist. And yet they're mighty quick to hang the Hawks quartet.

Go take a look at the Goodes thread and do a search on poster names. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Saint]

Wut? And you think there’s another mechanism to find the truth beyond ALL doubt?

It's never actually beyond ALL doubt, it's beyond reasonable doubt. Even a DNA match isn't actually beyond ALL doubt.

I think the point is that organisations need to make judgements on the balance of probabilities. I think most people here throwing Clarkson and Fagan to the wolves is that there's probably not much at this point that they could say which would change their mind. In my mind, the only way I'd say they shouldn't be sacked is if they can prove they weren't even there and were in a different state and it was somebody else. Which is Hiiiiighly unlikely, beyond reasonable. But this isn't a criminal case, it never will be, the bar is much lower than that anyway.

If they come out and say they thought they were doing the right thing, they're still cooked in my eyes. Because they didn't do the right thing (which was to stay out of it). Well-meaning is not an excuse for an employer going to a persons house to break up their family.

 

[kingswood71]

Wut? And you think there’s another mechanism to find the truth beyond ALL doubt?

Did I say that?
I do agree with this though: "A properly constituted Independent inquiry (possibly established under the Victorian Inquiries Act) is not aimed at allocating guilt but searching for the truth and recommending a path to resolution, reform and justice".

 

[nineteen eighty]

Oh yeah, and what if they delisted him and he couldn't afford the repayments. If they actually advised him on financial matters, he could sue them. Unless the advice was from financial planners. Of course, if he's delisted and can't afford his house, he also can't afford to sue them. Funny how that power imbalance which starts at the club doesn't stop there.

Honestly, does nobody work in a job and understand that employers shouldn't be involved in any of this stuff at all, unless they appoint professionals to provide that advice?

Absolutely agree on this point. Imagine 3 alpha males coming in to solve a delicate relationship issue. Recipe for disaster...oh wait

 

[Saint]

And every club would have bucket loads of similar examples.

Let's see where on the outrage meter this sits.

I do find it a tad hypocritical (well more than a tad) around the outrage on the topic at hand compared to the opposite reaction to the Goodes issue. Goodes was an easy target and so quite a few of the outraged posters in this thread were happy to put their position forward that all the actions weren't racist. And yet they're mighty quick to hang the Hawks quartet.

Go take a look at the Goodes thread and do a search on poster names. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Burgoyne has come out and said it was his greatest shame in his time in the game (words to that effect) that he let the Hawthorn higher ups sweep the booing under the rug as probably not racist. He and everyone else knew it was and didn't do enough. But that shouldn't be up to one player.

Anyone who was denying that booing was racist should definitely not be getting on their high-horse now.

 

[kingswood71]

Im not convinced that HFC knew before it was commissioned, as then the approach would likely have been to bury Riolis claims and not actually commission a report. As in if HFC knew what is the gain for doing a report?

Good post. I still am a believer that the club should be applauded for doing the report. And for passing it on when they received it.

 

[Curly5]

Ed would have been first with pitchfork in hand demanding others face severe consequences if they said the same thing, especially if they werent part of his boys club. He really should have fallen on his sword after the King Kong fiasco.

“If I’m asked to stand down I will…”
Of course no one dared.