Review Hawthorn v Cats - match sim - Thursday 23rd Feb, GMHBA

[HedgeFund]

Onto the Pies practice match.

Yep - agree.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

what is Stewart's ratio if u can be bothered?

I did a large breakdown of Sicily and Moore vs their contemporaries at the time of the AA side being announced. Both stacked up favourably and both were robbed IMO.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Here it is:

* excluding one game for Stewart where he was injured early in the game.

Disposals:
Stewart - 25.19 (6.56 contested)
Sicily - 23.81 (6.77 contested)
Saad - 21.86 (6.38 contested)
Maynard - 17.55 (6.45 contested)

Marks:
Sicily - 8.64 (1.45 contested)
Stewart - 7.69 (0.69 contested)
Saad - 4.76 (0.57 contested)
Maynard - 4.65 (0.80 contested)

Intercept possessions:
Stewart - 10.01
Sicly - 8.55
Saad - 7.48
Maynard - 6.90

Metres Gained:
Sicily - 590.18
Stewart - 518.38
Saad - 401.19
Maynard - 376.20

Rebound 50's:
Sicily - 8.14
Stewart - 6.44
Saad - 4.71
Maynard - 3.50

One Percenters:
Sicily - 7.32
Stewart- 4.63
Maynard - 4.6
Saad - 2.76

Score Involvements:
Stewart - 4.44
Saad - 3.81
Maynard - 2.90
Sicily - 2.82

Bounces:
Saad - 5.38
Sicly - 0.50
Maynard - 0.40
Stewart - 0.31

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Here it is:

* excluding one game for Stewart where he was injured early in the game.

Disposals:
Stewart - 25.19 (6.56 contested)
Sicily - 23.81 (6.77 contested)
Saad - 21.86 (6.38 contested)
Maynard - 17.55 (6.45 contested)

Marks:
Sicily - 8.64 (1.45 contested)
Stewart - 7.69 (0.69 contested)
Saad - 4.76 (0.57 contested)
Maynard - 4.65 (0.80 contested)

Intercept possessions:
Stewart - 10.01
Sicly - 8.55
Saad - 7.48
Maynard - 6.90

Metres Gained:
Sicily - 590.18
Stewart - 518.38
Saad - 401.19
Maynard - 376.20

Rebound 50's:
Sicily - 8.14
Stewart - 6.44
Saad - 4.71
Maynard - 3.50

One Percenters:
Sicily - 7.32
Stewart- 4.63
Maynard - 4.6
Saad - 2.76

Score Involvements:
Stewart - 4.44
Saad - 3.81
Maynard - 2.90
Sicily - 2.82

Bounces:
Saad - 5.38
Sicly - 0.50
Maynard - 0.40
Stewart - 0.31

And.

Sicily can actually defend an oppo, tall or small & despite how poor we were still kept his opponents to the same amount of goals as May and Taylor (Stat from Leigh Montagna)

 

[Brant]

And.

Sicily can actually defend an oppo, tall or small & despite how poor we were still kept his opponents to the same amount of goals as May and Taylor (Stat from Leigh Montagna)

Which Taylor is that?

GWS?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Which Taylor is that?

GWS?

Yep, although a poor comparison since GWS were worse than us.

Taylor was unreal in 2022 and got his AA that he deserved.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Here it is:

* excluding one game for Stewart where he was injured early in the game.

Disposals:
Stewart - 25.19 (6.56 contested)
Sicily - 23.81 (6.77 contested)
Saad - 21.86 (6.38 contested)
Maynard - 17.55 (6.45 contested)

Marks:
Sicily - 8.64 (1.45 contested)
Stewart - 7.69 (0.69 contested)
Saad - 4.76 (0.57 contested)
Maynard - 4.65 (0.80 contested)

Intercept possessions:
Stewart - 10.01
Sicly - 8.55
Saad - 7.48
Maynard - 6.90

Metres Gained:
Sicily - 590.18
Stewart - 518.38
Saad - 401.19
Maynard - 376.20

Rebound 50's:
Sicily - 8.14
Stewart - 6.44
Saad - 4.71
Maynard - 3.50

One Percenters:
Sicily - 7.32
Stewart- 4.63
Maynard - 4.6
Saad - 2.76

Score Involvements:
Stewart - 4.44
Saad - 3.81
Maynard - 2.90
Sicily - 2.82

Bounces:
Saad - 5.38
Sicly - 0.50
Maynard - 0.40
Stewart - 0.31

That is truly unbelievable.

 

[Brant]

Did Max Lynch, play?

How did he go?

 

[Titch3Votes0MooreAA]

Did Max Lynch, play?

How did he go?

He did play, but he didn't do much. Reeves and Meek were much better, in my opinion, despite only playing the first two quarters, from what I recall.

 

[hawkman]

Nah! Sorry Hedge!

Scrim destroyed Norton v Bulldogs last year when called upon to play a KPD role. In one contest, Scrim took probably the mark of the game but thats not what was impressive. He blocked Nortons run to space, forcing him to go wide, then set him up to fly over the top of him. That early effort was what set up, the great mark.

He consistently out marked Cameron when called upon to defend v GWS a couple of years back but more to the point, thats not his role, or best way of using his strengths.

Why would you waste the talent of one of the best ball users and one who can win the footy, by making him a lockdown player?

Frost and Blanck are our lockdown KP defenders.

Asking Scrim to be lockdown? You may as well ask Pendlebury to do it, then criticism him too!

How about Tom Stewart then? You really must reckon he cant play! Ive never once, seen him “lock down” a player yet he’s probably the best defender in the comp! Never, ever picks up a man! Have seen him get out marked plenty of times!





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Well there is a problem if Scrimshaw can't lockdown as we would likely run with 2 genuine lockdown talls plus Sicily. Then your smaller defenders would include a running defender (Jiath) a couple who can lockdown (Hardwick and Impey). This leaves Scrimshaw as the 7th as best and one that is most replaceable

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Well there is a problem if Scrimshaw can't lockdown as we would likely run with 2 genuine lockdown talls plus Sicily. Then your smaller defenders would include a running defender (Jiath) a couple who can lockdown (Hardwick and Impey). This leaves Scrimshaw as the 7th as best and one that is most replaceable

It's not that Scrimshaw can't lockdown.

And if you're saying he's the most replaceable, that's fair, but who by, Bramble? a worse defender and worse kick, and doesn't have the same level or close to, intercept game.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I love this. I've been trying to figure the difference between a simulation and a practice match. Given everything looked real on Thursday: tackles, kicks, marks, free kicks, centre bounces, etc.

But this would do it. Cheers!

(BTW, I'm going to quote you as "sources suggest" should I use this at work next week when some Carlton supporters start getting on my ****)

Run it past Chief first

 

[Franko Armani]

You guys are tripping over Scrimshaw! He’s one of our classiest players and users of the ball. Also, he’s one of the players that happily backs into a pack to take a defensive mark. He’s best 22 100% of the time.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Here it is:

* excluding one game for Stewart where he was injured early in the game.

Disposals:
Stewart - 25.19 (6.56 contested)
Sicily - 23.81 (6.77 contested)
Saad - 21.86 (6.38 contested)
Maynard - 17.55 (6.45 contested)

Marks:
Sicily - 8.64 (1.45 contested)
Stewart - 7.69 (0.69 contested)
Saad - 4.76 (0.57 contested)
Maynard - 4.65 (0.80 contested)

Intercept possessions:
Stewart - 10.01
Sicly - 8.55
Saad - 7.48
Maynard - 6.90

Metres Gained:
Sicily - 590.18
Stewart - 518.38
Saad - 401.19
Maynard - 376.20

Rebound 50's:
Sicily - 8.14
Stewart - 6.44
Saad - 4.71
Maynard - 3.50

One Percenters:
Sicily - 7.32
Stewart- 4.63
Maynard - 4.6
Saad - 2.76

Score Involvements:
Stewart - 4.44
Saad - 3.81
Maynard - 2.90
Sicily - 2.82

Bounces:
Saad - 5.38
Sicly - 0.50
Maynard - 0.40
Stewart - 0.31

Put like that its as plain as day.

Sicily was robbed and the AA selectors are utter buffoons

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Consider this - if you gave DGB or Frost the licence to play the way Scrimshaw plays (ie. pretty loose and never on a KPF) would they produce greater offensive output? I think the answer is it’s highly likely.

If you instructed Jack to play on a KPD and stick to him as tight as possible (lock down / defend) what do you think the chances would be that he’d be able to do that job? I’m not sure he would be able to do that effectively.

I think you’re comparing different players here and they’re not interchangeable.

If we have a fully available back 6 (+ 1) then Jack can, and should, play as a 3rd tall / hybrid forward.

Hang on do you honestly believe that Frosty could play as a loose man better than what Scrimshaw does? Frosty has some good traits but decision making and elite kicking skills aren't on that list.

It would honestly be comical to watch the team use Frosty as our distributor of half back, talk about chaos footy!

And DGB quite frankly doesn't have either the game sense or cardiovascular ability to currently play that role (maybe in three years time). He's still very much a work in progress.

Also all this talk about Scrimshaw being not good as a lockdown defender is overblown IMOH. Like Sicily he backs his superior judgement in the air to outmark his opponent rather than just go the spoil all the time (always the sign of a good Backman). Not saying he doesn't need to improve that area of his game, just that it's not as bad as most think.

I think you said you used to coach Jack Hedgefund? I'm honestly curious if some of the animosity I am detecting from you towards Jack is based on this past relationship?

Was he a bit of a ratbag as a lad and hard to coach? Ive heard nothing but positive feedback about his time at the Hawks.

 

[Jazzfan]

tbh I did have the thought in the first period that Newcombe appeared to be actively seeking to be tackled with the ball just so he could practice breaking tackles or make his disposal while being tackled. At one point he looked to ignore giving it off just so he could turn back into the contest again.

These pre-season games/simulations against real opponents are gold for being able to practice things without consequence.

Ha. Love Newcombe, but gee.

He was caught holding the ball early fair and square. It's completely normal at this time of year, it's why we play match sims. Happens to the very best.

 

[The hands of stone]

Late to the party here but was chatting to my brother in law tonight ( cats fan ) , he was at the game .

His thoughts were our young guys almost tried too hard , lots of running and trying to make things happen through the corridor and then losing shape and position .
He also reckons 4-5 goals of theirs were from there players ' cheating ' and not chasing .
He was near the boundary and reckons you could clearly hear Finn marshalling the guys around

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I want to watch it back and take some manual stats on what the centre bounce breakdown was. We'd still have gotten beaten in there, but it felt better knowing that we were getting beaten in there with Day, Newk and Wardy who at least have years together to come, rather than Tom, JOM and Newk.

Hopefully the midfield rotations we saw start to generate some stoppage wins in the next few months.

 

[H00t]

2022 - Ranking amongst key defenders, the 27-year-old is number one in player ratings, disposals, uncontested possessions, metres gained, marks, rebound 50s, inside 50s and score involvements as well as second in intercept possessions.

He was the premier defender last season and your statement will receive the derision and disdain that it deserves.

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He’s not wrong though? The reason someone like Sicily gets 20+ possessions is the same reason someone like Stewart, Hurn or Rich gets big disposal numbers. Those stats you brought up suggest this.

It’s because of how good their ball use is in setting up attacks and how their team constantly tries to get the ball in their hands.

Sicily isn’t as good a lockdown defender as Taylor or May and his one on one loss percentage shows this.

What makes him so good is he can play on a tall forward very, very well and also be the equal of Stewart as the best playmaker out of the defensive half setting up plays.

 

[TAITA]

The “premier defender in the competition” who didn’t get selected in the AA. Righto.

Here’s a stat - in 2022 he had 190 marks, 158 were uncontested. We kick it to him a lot when he is free.

You really need a Snickers

I'll swap my Snickers for an idea for you chump. Clueless troll.

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[FB19]

Also I think the despicable act that got Stewart 4 weeks should have made him ineligible anyway. Even if not a firm rule, is that what we want to celebrate at the end of the season? What message does that send to kids?

 

[HedgeFund]

Hang on do you honestly believe that Frosty could play as a loose man better than what Scrimshaw does? Frosty has some good traits but decision making and elite kicking skills aren't on that list.

It would honestly be comical to watch the team use Frosty as our distributor of half back, talk about chaos footy!

And DGB quite frankly doesn't have either the game sense or cardiovascular ability to currently play that role (maybe in three years time). He's still very much a work in progress.

Also all this talk about Scrimshaw being not good as a lockdown defender is overblown IMOH. Like Sicily he backs his superior judgement in the air to outmark his opponent rather than just go the spoil all the time (always the sign of a good Backman). Not saying he doesn't need to improve that area of his game, just that it's not as bad as most think.

I think you said you used to coach Jack Hedgefund? I'm honestly curious if some of the animosity I am detecting from you towards Jack is based on this past relationship?

Was he a bit of a ratbag as a lad and hard to coach? Ive heard nothing but positive feedback about his time at the Hawks.

No - I said Frost or DGB’s offensive output would increase if they were given a role similar to Scrimshaw.

ie. the role you play can impact on how offensive your output is.

I’ve no issue with / animosity towards Jack having coached him way back in 2016. As I said in an earlier post. I was delighted to see him join us for peanuts, but frankly at this stage I’m his career, I expected him to have addressed the weaknesses he showed in juniors (ie. plays too loose, chews too much off by foot occasionally, doesn’t work back hard enough in turnover - particularly when he has caused it).

Still keen for him to play 3rd tall forward if there’s a chance.

 

[HedgeFund]

I'll swap my Snickers for an idea for you chump. Clueless troll.

On SM-F936B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Rude.

Have another one.

 

[KermitJagger]

The “premier defender in the competition” who didn’t get selected in the AA. Righto.

Here’s a stat - in 2022 he had 190 marks, 158 were uncontested. We kick it to him a lot when he is free.

You really need a Snickers

Wtf is this argument? I really don't understand any point you're making about Sicily's disposal. Almost everyone on the field has the majority of their disposals by way of someone else. Clayton Oliver lead the league in getting first possession of the ball and he only averaged 12 a game from 32 disposals.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In keeping with some of the dumb arguments, I’m reading above…

Geelong only thumped us because they kept hogging it.