Team Mgmt. Makeup of our team II - Strengths & deficiencies, player development

[owen87]

Eh, I still rate him and think there's a role for him, but he should probably be outside the 22 at full strength. 7th/8th defender for me.

I hated him on the wing - and I'm sure he probably hated it there too.

Maybe at full strength, which the team never really is. He's a guy that'll go out and give you 100% every single week, he's regularly the leading player on the ground for repeat sprint efforts. Bloke is an animal and absolutely flogs himself every match.

I can see why they keep selecting him over other guys given how few players we have that give what Kelly gives.

Heppell is playing out of necessity really, and aside from some early season struggles ended up being OK. We also had a lack of fit and in-form young guys to really push anyone out as well, Voss had a small patch of good form that probably deserved a call-up given how bad Weidemann and Jones were going, but otherwise pretty much everyone else who deserved to play did play in the end.

 

[Vindicater]

Heppell, Kelly, Weideman and Goldstein should all not be near the best 23 in the second half of the year.

 

[jdstorm]

Ridley and Setterfield for me going down really took the wind out of our team with no real way to recover. Made for a season death spiral.
With McKay coming in to shore up our backline, I would hope to see it gives Ridley back to be that interceptor accumulator type.
Hopefully Baldwin stays on the park. He's got some footy smarts. Maybe some midfield ability?

But who would we see being a Setterfield backup?
I'm guessing Stringer and maybe Tsatas later in the year could play that role. Perkins just too much of a lightweight.

A lot's also going to have to do with whether Scott/the coaching team actually back up what they say. Kingy or one of those Foxtel guys mentioned last week how Scott talks a tough game, but that he didn't actually change the team last year (from memory, no one was dropped after the 21 goal loss to GWS).

A good example of that - Kelly, Weideman and Heppell combined for 55 games last year.

We then had 17 players aged 22 or under who combined for 45 games.

It’s not like guys were lighting up the VFL last year. There wasn’t really competition for spots or real selection pressure.

This year they’ve replaced a few end of roster VFL starters players with 2 guaranteed starters as free agents. 1 FRP and two HB/Wing types they have high hopes for.

So that’s the 2-4 worst best 22 players being replaced this season. Which is 10-20% of the best 22 being turned over. That’s actually quite significant

 

[bombreys]

Maybe at full strength, which the team never really is. He's a guy that'll go out and give you 100% every single week, he's regularly the leading player on the ground for repeat sprint efforts. Bloke is an animal and absolutely flogs himself every match.

I can see why they keep selecting him over other guys given how few players we have that give what Kelly gives.

Heppell is playing out of necessity really, and aside from some early season struggles ended up being OK. We also had a lack of fit and in-form young guys to really push anyone out as well, Voss had a small patch of good form that probably deserved a call-up given how bad Weidemann and Jones were going, but otherwise pretty much everyone else who deserved to play did play in the end.

True that no team in the comp is ever even close to 100% full strength in reality. And agree re Kelly - but how far does that take him, especially now he's a bit older? I can see why they keep selecting him too - might mean nothing, but he's also the closest player we have to how Scott played his footy on our list imo. I just think we need a few more pure defenders down back - I don't think any side in the league is winning a final playing Kelly, Lav and Heppell in their backline in a regular best 22.

 

[owen87]

True that no team in the comp is ever even close to 100% full strength in reality. And agree re Kelly - but how far does that take him, especially now he's a bit older? I can see why they keep selecting him too - might mean nothing, but he's also the closest player we have to how Scott played his footy on our list imo. I just think we need a few more pure defenders down back - I don't think any side in the league is winning a final playing Kelly, Lav and Heppell in their backline in a regular best 22.

This year with a fully fit list it would be tough to see all of Laverde, Kelly and Heppell being inside the Best-22 to finish the year. If Baldwin & Cox stay fit those two should push for spots back there, Archie Roberts is a chance if we want a more aggressive defender (though IMO it'll be pushing Hind out more likely).

Also Duursma needs to find a home somewhere alongside Martin and Durham so one might come off a HBF or HFF given I think all three are best-22.

 

[bombreys]

It’s not like guys were lighting up the VFL last year. There wasn’t really competition for spots or real selection pressure.

This year they’ve replaced a few end of roster VFL starters players with 2 guaranteed starters as free agents. 1 FRP and two HB/Wing types they have high hopes for.

So that’s the 2-4 worst best 22 players being replaced this season. Which is 10-20% of the best 22 being turned over. That’s actually quite significant

There were a few who probably should have got a chance given how poorly the AFL side was playing - I thought Voss, Tex and Montgomerie deserved a couple of games. Baldwin playing 4 was ridiculous. Bryan ended up playing 8, I'd have hoped for closer to 15.

I think you've got your fan hat on there with the draftees. We took four picks last year and got a total of 14 games out of them - and none from the rookies. And that was from positions of absolutely desperate need.

Who are the 2-4 replacements?

 

[owen87]

There were a few who probably should have got a chance given how poorly the AFL side was playing - I thought Voss, Tex and Montgomerie deserved a couple of games. Baldwin playing 4 was ridiculous. Bryan ended up playing 8, I'd have hoped for closer to 15.

I think you've got your fan hat on there with the draftees. We took four picks last year and got a total of 14 games out of them - and none from the rookies. And that was from positions of absolutely desperate need.

Who are the 2-4 replacements?

McKay, Duursma, Gresham and Goldstein will all play AFL for the first half of the year. They're replaced guys who were fringe AFL standard at best.

Davey Jnr got 10 games despite some injury concerns and generally not looking quite at the level yet, Tsatas was injured but got games late nonetheless, Jayden Davey was a LTI. Montgomerie probably should / could have got a game once Ridley went down I guess and Voss had some nice early form but dropped away.

Without injury issues Tsatas would clearly have played more, and Jayden Davey was obviously never going to play regardless.

Tex got injured as he hit some decent form, Baldwin still had to compete with BZT, Laverde and Ridley for a spot, Bryan was clearly not ahead of Phillips for most of the year.

I feel like people took at numbers and say 'oh we didn't play any kids!' but don't actually delve in to it all that much.

 

[Vindicater]

So looking towards next offseason I could see

Out: Heppell, Hind, Kelly, Shiel, Wanganeen and Goldstein.

Would probably leave us needing to recruit.

2 more back flankers
1 midfielder
1 forward flanker
1 ruckman

To balance out the list.

In regards to draft picks. Long time away I know but I really like the look of Sam Lalor as a big bodied midfielder.

 

[eth-dog]

So looking towards next offseason I could see

Out: Heppell, Hind, Kelly, Shiel, Wanganeen and Goldstein.

Would probably leave us needing to recruit.

2 more back flankers
1 midfielder
1 forward flanker
1 ruckman

To balance out the list.

In regards to draft picks. Long time away I know but I really like the look of Sam Lalor as a big bodied midfielder.

If Wanganeen starts the year well I reckon he breaks into the side. Kid has talent but I'm more concerned about his injuries

 

[yodellinhank]

If Wanganeen starts the year well I reckon he breaks into the side. Kid has talent but I'm more concerned about his injuries

He's got a bit of the what we need about him too. I really hope he gets a run at it.

 

[jdstorm]

There were a few who probably should have got a chance given how poorly the AFL side was playing - I thought Voss, Tex and Montgomerie deserved a couple of games. Baldwin playing 4 was ridiculous. Bryan ended up playing 8, I'd have hoped for closer to 15.

I think you've got your fan hat on there with the draftees. We took four picks last year and got a total of 14 games out of them - and none from the rookies. And that was from positions of absolutely desperate need.

Who are the 2-4 replacements?

Gresham, McKay, Dursma, Goldy, Caddy

I consider Goldy fringe and Dursma a sideswap with Zerk,

But his inclusion does add a wing that was sorely needed and creates competition at the 2nd tall spot between Reid, cox, Lav, Baldwin, Hayes as a replacement for one of Kelly/Heppell/Hind.

Caddy as a top 10 pick you expect to get some games in year one.

Then there’s Tsatas. Started the year out of the team and filtered in due to injury/pedigree. If he makes an impact in a way that’s expected of a player in his draft position that’s another best 22 player who wasn’t there when the team looked good at the start of the season

 

[Vindicater]

If Wanganeen starts the year well I reckon he breaks into the side. Kid has talent but I'm more concerned about his injuries

Yep. I think if he gets injured again I can't see them going with him when they are already carrying Davey.

 

[ant555]

Much more for Scott to work with: An early look at Essendon’s best 22 for 2024

How will the Bombers look next year?

www.sen.com.au

 

[ant555]

If Wanganeen starts the year well I reckon he breaks into the side. Kid has talent but I'm more concerned about his injuries

He is already behind where we need him to be given he has to build the fitness base so he can play longer than a quarter. I agree he has the ability to get in the side but as you say injury is a concern .

 

[ant555]

McKay, Duursma, Gresham and Goldstein will all play AFL for the first half of the year. They're replaced guys who were fringe AFL standard at best.

Davey Jnr got 10 games despite some injury concerns and generally not looking quite at the level yet, Tsatas was injured but got games late nonetheless, Jayden Davey was a LTI. Montgomerie probably should / could have got a game once Ridley went down I guess and Voss had some nice early form but dropped away.

Without injury issues Tsatas would clearly have played more, and Jayden Davey was obviously never going to play regardless.

Tex got injured as he hit some decent form, Baldwin still had to compete with BZT, Laverde and Ridley for a spot, Bryan was clearly not ahead of Phillips for most of the year.

I feel like people took at numbers and say 'oh we didn't play any kids!' but don't actually delve in to it all that much.

Last line is true. We actually played some of the young blokes despite them not being AFL ready and that includes Cox who was not AFL ready form wise when he came back.
It seems to be that because we did not play Voss and Monty and Bryan got a limited go it translated to us not playing young blokes. Never mind the fact that Voss did not have the footy IQ to play the role or the fact Bryan was still lacking physicality for a big bloke.
Monty was probably a bit unlucky.

 

[bombreys]

McKay, Duursma, Gresham and Goldstein will all play AFL for the first half of the year. They're replaced guys who were fringe AFL standard at best.

Davey Jnr got 10 games despite some injury concerns and generally not looking quite at the level yet, Tsatas was injured but got games late nonetheless, Jayden Davey was a LTI. Montgomerie probably should / could have got a game once Ridley went down I guess and Voss had some nice early form but dropped away.

Without injury issues Tsatas would clearly have played more, and Jayden Davey was obviously never going to play regardless.

Tex got injured as he hit some decent form, Baldwin still had to compete with BZT, Laverde and Ridley for a spot, Bryan was clearly not ahead of Phillips for most of the year.

I feel like people took at numbers and say 'oh we didn't play any kids!' but don't actually delve in to it all that much.

Probably true - I did think there were times when we'd play the youth card when our 22 wasn't actually that young.

I do think we might see a few more changes this year - Scott's had 12 months to look at the player and what works or what doesn't - I think he'll hopefully be a little more willing to drop a few of the senior guys if they're not pulling their weight.

 

[owen87]

Probably true - I did think there were times when we'd play the youth card when our 22 wasn't actually that young.

I do think we might see a few more changes this year - Scott's had 12 months to look at the player and what works or what doesn't - I think he'll hopefully be a little more willing to drop a few of the senior guys if they're not pulling their weight.

The good thing seems to be that even though we're rolling out fairly young and inexperienced sides, Scott isn't allowing that to be an excuse for poor performance - at least not in the external messaging.

The coaching group would be aware that it would mean the team struggles to see out the season exactly like we did though.

 

[Lore]

The good thing seems to be that even though we're rolling out fairly young and inexperienced sides, Scott isn't allowing that to be an excuse for poor performance - at least not in the external messaging.

The coaching group would be aware that it would mean the team struggles to see out the season exactly like we did though.

and not rest on their laurels either

 

[TheUnicorn]

Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 24.4 (12th oldest)
Average games: 75.5 (seventh most experienced)
Most games: Todd Goldstein

17

Todd Goldstein

Age

35

Ht

201cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

7.5

5star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

32.5

5star

D

16.7

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

7.4

4star

CL

7.0

5star

HO

32.9

5star

D

5.2

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.6

3star

HO

10.0

5star

(315)
Players with 100-plus games: 13
Players with less than 50 games: 19
Most finals games: Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

(9)
Players with finals experience: 22

List analysis: Where your club ranks for age and experience

Who has the oldest list, who has the youngest, and which club has the most experience heading into 2024?

www.afl.com.au

 

[owen87]

Essendon

Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 24.4 (12th oldest)
Average games: 75.5 (seventh most experienced)
Most games: Todd Goldstein (315)
Players with 100-plus games: 13
Players with less than 50 games: 19
Most finals games: Dylan Shiel (9)
Players with finals experience: 22

List analysis: Where your club ranks for age and experience

Who has the oldest list, who has the youngest, and which club has the most experience heading into 2024?

www.afl.com.au

Collingwood with the oldest list in the AFL, finally people are starting to realise.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 24.4 (12th oldest)
Average games: 75.5 (seventh most experienced)
Most games: Todd Goldstein (315)
Players with 100-plus games: 13
Players with less than 50 games: 19
Most finals games: Dylan Shiel (9)
Players with finals experience: 22

List analysis: Where your club ranks for age and experience

Who has the oldest list, who has the youngest, and which club has the most experience heading into 2024?

www.afl.com.au

I wonder where we sit if they use the median age/games instead of the average.

We've got a small handful of players that are dragging our average up a fair bit.

 

[Yoda_]

I wonder where we sit if they use the median age/games instead of the average.

We've got a small handful of players that are dragging our average up a fair bit.

thought the same thing.

Goldstein alone drags us up substantially in both age and games

 

[DERO]

Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 24.4 (12th oldest)
Average games: 75.5 (seventh most experienced)
Most games: Todd Goldstein (315)
Players with 100-plus games: 13
Players with less than 50 games: 19
Most finals games: Dylan Shiel (9)
Players with finals experience: 22

List analysis: Where your club ranks for age and experience

Who has the oldest list, who has the youngest, and which club has the most experience heading into 2024?

www.afl.com.au

I saw that and wondered what it would be with Goldstein on the list.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Essendons average number of games played on list, 2024

7th

Ranking at round one, 2023

15th




Essendons average age of list at Opening Round, 2024

12th

Ranking at round one, 2023

16th

 

[shockmaster]

I saw that and wondered what it would be with Goldstein on the list.

Based off the current mean of 24.4 and list size of 42, take Goldstein out and mean age becomes roughly 24.1 (13th oldest instead of 12th) and mean games played becomes 69.7 (9th most experienced instead of 7th).