Universal Love Nick Austin - Head Of List Management

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Welcome Nick.

Like the Carlton connection.

Suspect he got the job because of the Liddle connection however.

Hasn't been a List Manager, but a list management officer so one of a team under a list manager. Not sure what they do to be honest. Has been a National Recruiting Manager for 2 years, which means Brodie has it all over him in that regard.

His strength probably needs to lie in his ability to organise and negotiate. I suspect that he'll be taking suggestions from the CEO on salary negotiations, as part of the sub-committee.

I wish him well. Any misgivings I have are not about him as I don't know how he operates. I hope he is gifted and has the steel to be in control of his own department.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Welcome Nick.

Like the Carlton connection.

Suspect he got the job because of the Liddle connection however.

Hasn't been a List Manager, but a list management officer so one of a team under a list manager. Not sure what they do to be honest. Has been a National Recruiting Manager for 2 years, which means Brodie has it all over him in that regard.

His strength probably needs to lie in his ability to organise and negotiate. I suspect that he'll be taking suggestions from the CEO on salary negotiations, as part of the sub-committee.

I wish him well. Any misgivings I have are not about him as I don't know how he operates. I hope he is gifted and has the steel to be in control of his own department.

What exactly does Brodie have all over Nick ODN apart from being a SOS appointee?

 

[goreds]

Delighted he got the job.

He's part of the new breed of recruiters, great get and the dogs are spewing! Has a great eye for talent...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What exactly does Brodie have all over Nick ODN apart from being a SOS appointee?

As a National Recruiting Manager I said. Longer in the role, and longer in recruiting as a whole.

I've indicated that I don't know what he brings as a List Manager as he has never been one, but has worked in a list management team. I'm hoping he understands the art of negotiation and wheeling and dealing and has the qualities necessary to run his own show as the boss in that department.

 

[El Topo]

Welcome Nick.

Like the Carlton connection.

Suspect he got the job because of the Liddle connection however.

Hasn't been a List Manager, but a list management officer so one of a team under a list manager. Not sure what they do to be honest. Has been a National Recruiting Manager for 2 years, which means Brodie has it all over him in that regard.

His strength probably needs to lie in his ability to organise and negotiate. I suspect that he'll be taking suggestions from the CEO on salary negotiations, as part of the sub-committee.

I wish him well. Any misgivings I have are not about him as I don't know how he operates. I hope he is gifted and has the steel to be in control of his own department.

He seems like an analytics guy, which should mean continuity with Silvagni's software-guided approach. Hopefully.

 

[Arr0w]

Interesting appointment, strong Carlton heritage/connections, as well as the Liddle/Tigers connection. Certainly a decent apprenticeship for a role like this.

I hope, more interested in knowing if Nick has a strong character, to make that final decision when needed ( goreds could you provide any intel on this?)

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

As a National Recruiting Manager I said. Longer in the role, and longer in recruiting as a whole.

I've indicated that I don't know what he brings as a List Manager as he has never been one, but has worked in a list management team. I'm hoping he understands the art of negotiation and wheeling and dealing and has the qualities necessary to run his own show as the boss in that department.

Slight aside but I think this aspect of SOS's role and skill set has become somewhat over-inflated around these parts. This stuff is not hard, it's just about working out what you are willing to accept, what you are willing to give up, what your threshold for risk is etc and then sticking to the parameters and boundaries you've set yourself when the heat is on. Sometimes it gets you what you want (Gibbs), sometimes it doesn't (Papley). But when you get what you want, it's not that you've actively fooled someone else, it's just that the other side sees or values things differently to you.

Even the future pick swap with Adelaide wasn't about the art of negotiation or doing a deal. They thought we'd be bottom 2 and got it wrong. We thought they'd be average and got it right. SOS didn't talk them into something they didn't want to do.

TL;DR I think this is the least of our worries.

 

[Arr0w]

Slight aside but I think this aspect of SOS's role and skill set has become somewhat over-inflated around these parts. This stuff is not hard, it's just about working out what you are willing to accept, what you are willing to give up, what your threshold for risk is etc and then sticking to the parameters and boundaries you've set yourself when the heat is on. Sometimes it gets you what you want (Gibbs), sometimes it doesn't (Papley). But when you get what you want, it's not that you've actively fooled someone else, it's just that the other side sees or values things differently to you.

Even the future pick swap with Adelaide wasn't about the art of negotiation or doing a deal. They thought we'd be bottom 2 and got it wrong. We thought they'd be average and got it right. SOS didn't talk them into something they didn't want to do.

I disagree

The art of trading, especially acquisitions, is about bang for buck, so you still have capital for draft talent.

I don't want the club overspending, even on quality, unless all/majority of the pieces are there as a core

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Slight aside but I think this aspect of SOS's role and skill set has become somewhat over-inflated around these parts. This stuff is not hard, it's just about working out what you are willing to accept, what you are willing to give up, what your threshold for risk is etc and then sticking to the parameters and boundaries you've set yourself when the heat is on. Sometimes it gets you what you want (Gibbs), sometimes it doesn't (Papley). But when you get what you want, it's not that you've actively fooled someone else, it's just that the other side sees or values things differently to you.

Even the future pick swap with Adelaide wasn't about the art of negotiation or doing a deal. They thought we'd be bottom 2 and got it wrong. We thought they'd be average and got it right. SOS didn't talk them into something they didn't want to do.

TL;DR I think this is the least of our worries.

You say it's not hard but then give a whole set of things you have to consider. Some do this better than others, and they do it with knowledge of how else they can replace any void if it doesn't work.

We've certainly been guilty of overpaying players in the past, which has seen others wanting similar deals. It's the very reason we busted our cap so many times.

As for the Crows trade, SOS certainly assessed the two lists better than the Crows did.

He also had an air of authority and a reputation for being strong which told other clubs not to come in weak in negotiations.

 

[therubbernub]

Welcome Nick! This guy has more Carlton connections than you can shake a stick at. Son of Rod, brother of Georgie (co-founder of Young Carlton Professionals), husband of Kate (employee at Carlton FC), brother in law of Jaryd Cachia.

Nick didn’t stand a chance


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[therubbernub]

Did I miss something here? What's the concerns raised about Austin?

Hasn’t drafted one good player to Carlton yet...


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[Opine]

I’m finding funny, all the dumb, jobs for the boys comments regarding this appointment.

good luck Nick.

I'm finding funny, your comment about other comments being dumb. Thats just dumb.

Good luck Nick, hope you have a long and successful career at CFC.

 

[BlueJet]

I disagree

The art of trading, especially acquisitions, is about bang for buck, so you still have capital for draft talent.

I don't want the club overspending, even on quality, unless all/majority of the pieces are there as a core

I don't disagree with either take tbh because as with many things in the list management space there are many valid viewpoints.
IMO though you won't be overpaying if you're properly appraising the talent to begin with - the ability to sell or negotiate are very much secondary if you have a proper understanding of the value or talent that you have access to.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

You say it's not hard but then give a whole set of things you have to consider. Some do this better than others, and they do it with knowledge of how else they can replace any void if it doesn't work.

We've certainly been guilty of overpaying players in the past, which has seen others wanting similar deals. It's the very reason we busted our cap so many times.

As for the Crows trade, SOS certainly assessed the two lists better than the Crows did.

He also had an air of authority and a reputation for being strong which told other clubs not to come in weak in negotiations.

I don't disagree with any of that, I just don't think that there is much to the 'art' of negotiation. What matters is having (a) accurate valuations of the assets in question and (b) having the discipline to stick to them. The former is not negotiation and I don't see the latter as being particularly difficult. When it comes to overpaying, that's because we got the assessment of value wrong, not because we were 'bad' negotiators.

Anyway, we might ultimately be saying the same thing with difference emphasis but I'm just pointing out that skills required to be successful in this job don't have much to do with "wheeling and dealing". Whether Austin has the substantive skills that actually matter (i.e. the ability to value an player, pick etc) is what I value.

 

[therubbernub]

Slight aside but I think this aspect of SOS's role and skill set has become somewhat over-inflated around these parts. This stuff is not hard, it's just about working out what you are willing to accept, what you are willing to give up, what your threshold for risk is etc and then sticking to the parameters and boundaries you've set yourself when the heat is on. Sometimes it gets you what you want (Gibbs), sometimes it doesn't (Papley). But when you get what you want, it's not that you've actively fooled someone else, it's just that the other side sees or values things differently to you.

Even the future pick swap with Adelaide wasn't about the art of negotiation or doing a deal. They thought we'd be bottom 2 and got it wrong. We thought they'd be average and got it right. SOS didn't talk them into something they didn't want to do.

TL;DR I think this is the least of our worries.

I think a big part of list management is moving on. The selections are for the most part easy to predict. Look at the correlation with the newspaper predictions and the actual top 20 order. Pretty close.
When someone reaches for a player , you are either a genius or a moron. Sos didn’t do much reaching.
SOS’s predecessors reached a lot and failed a lot. Sos loved coming in and moving on their dead wood and extracting value from good players that he didn’t rate as highly as consensus.
At gws he had no choice but to move players on, but there was no shortage of offers for his players and the picks kept flowing in for compensation.
At the blues though, it was looking like he was going to have to make some hard decisions in coming years about his list . Some of which is his family . Was sos as capable at moving on his own players? Dunno.


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[Canyouhearthedrums]

I disagree

The art of trading, especially acquisitions, is about bang for buck, so you still have capital for draft talent.

I don't want the club overspending, even on quality, unless all/majority of the pieces are there as a core

Sure. I'm just objecting to the idea that this relies on someones ability to 'wheel and deal'. To me, it's 99.9% about valuing the asset accurately (including what other options might exist) and properly understanding your own list and needs. To me that's a different skill to 'negotiation' and the idea that you can somehow control or influence what the other party does, while sexy, is misguided.

 

[TheRedPill]

Just following on from my previous comment, which I admit was a bit unfair.

It’s harsh and almost always unwise to criticise an appointment immediately (see draft/trade reactions, etc). I’ll obviously be hoping for the best and backing him in, however there are a few astute types scratching their heads over this.

I hope they’re wrong. Time will tell - good luck!

Have done a bit more digging, and it’s much more positive than first thought. So I retract my initial cynicism.

The Club is absolutely thrilled at getting him. Very highly rated. However, as per my earlier comment - some others outside the club are not so sure. It’s usually how these things are received, so take with a grain of salt.

Personally, what matters most to me is that the Club is fully aligned and in this case we are. Serious optimism here. Like I said, time will tell, and hopefully we prove the naysayers wrong. Onwards and upwards!

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I think a big part of list management is moving on. The selections are for the most part easy to predict. Look at the correlation with the newspaper predictions and the actual top 20 order. Pretty close.
When someone reaches for a player , you are either a genius or a moron. Sos didn’t do much reaching.
SOS’s predecessors reached a lot and failed a lot. Sos loved coming in and moving on their dead wood and extracting value from good players that he didn’t rate as highly as consensus.
At gws he had no choice but to move players on, but there was no shortage of offers for his players and the picks kept flowing in for compensation.
At the blues though, it was looking like he was going to have to make some hard decisions in coming years about his list . Some of which is his family . Was sos as capable at moving on his own players? Dunno.


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And yet the single biggest reason we are on the up is that someone reached for a kid from WA who was too tall and too fat to play in the middle...

I think you make good points and I maintain a healthy degree of scepticism regarding recruitment. Would the Tiges have taken Dusty at 1, or where they just lucky he was the bloke left at 3? Luck still plays a big role in it all, as do opportunities which are largely out of your control.

 

[Pafloyul]

I don't disagree with either take tbh because as with many things in the list management space there are many valid viewpoints.
IMO though you won't be overpaying if you're properly appraising the talent to begin with - the ability to sell or negotiate are very much secondary if you have a proper understanding of the value or talent that you have access to.

That's sounds a bit too close to "you can't overpay..." to me.

 

[Boy with chook]

I read the article on this appointment on the AFL website mid afternoon. Quite lengthy and mentioned the supposed “conflict of interest” about SOS going along with a link to an article about the reaction to SOS going and how certain questions weren’t answered about the topic in the forum.
Just got home from work and thought I’d read it again and it’s now been shortened to three paragraphs with mention of the “conflict“ removed and the link no longer there.
City hall at work?

 

[BlueJet]

That's sounds a bit too close to "you can't overpay..." to me.

You can always overpay, however, having a proper understanding of the asset in question reduces that risk.

 

[ferrisb]

Welcome Nick! This guy has more Carlton connections than you can shake a stick at. Son of Rod, brother of Georgie (co-founder of Young Carlton Professionals), husband of Kate (employee at Carlton FC), brother in law of Jaryd Cachia.

Sure, but I hear one of his 4th cousins barracks for Collingwood...

 

[Funk]

Hmmmmm.

He seems to be smart with his picks.

He has been around when Dogs were trading last year- IMHO they were smart.

Furiously hoping he becomes a gun at his new gig.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Great appointment.

Welcome back to the mighty Bluebaggers SOC!!!

 

[Arr0w]

Sure. I'm just objecting to the idea that this relies on someones ability to 'wheel and deal'. To me, it's 99.9% about valuing the asset accurately (including what other options might exist) and properly understanding your own list and needs. To me that's a different skill to 'negotiation' and the idea that you can somehow control or influence what the other party does, while sexy, is misguided.

It goes both ways. I think valuing is important, but you can sway a mindset if you are creative.

Ultimately, you should work within the constraints, buy low, sell high