ODI status is a relic of a bygone era - get rid of it

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Is there any good reason why a 50-over match that is played under MCC laws and ICC regulations between two international teams that are member of the ICC should not be considered a One Day International?

During the World Cup Qualifier - not only this one but the ones that have come before - some of the matches that are being played are ODIs, but any that involve the Netherlands or Nepal are not. So, for example, UAE vs PNG was considered a One Day International, but the West Indies vs the Netherlands will only be a List A match.

This look doubly silly because the Netherlands have already gained ODI status due to winning the World Cricket League Championship, and after the Qualifier all their matches against other teams with ODI status will be considered ODIs. But the matches in the Qualifier itself? Nope, they don't count.

Further exacerbating this ridiculousness is the situation Papua New Guinea find themselves in, whereby it is in their best interests to lose to the Netherlands in their upcoming match. Why? Because if they win, they will have virtually guaranteed that they will be one of only two Associate nations (excluding Nederland) to miss out on the super six stage...and the bottom two Associates miss out on ODI status.

The Netherlands' victory in the WCLC meant that they get to join the 2019-2021 ODI Championship, a thirteen team competition comprising of the twelve full member nations and the top Associate nation (Nederland). This guarantees many ODIs across the two year cycle for all the teams participating, and with it a great increase in funding and resources. Scotland, who are currently the top team in the WCQ and who were just pipped at the post for the WCLC, will also have ODI status during that time, but currently have no guaranteed fixtures and far less available funding. Both nations, along with all their fellow Associates, also receive far less than the full member nations, as is aptly shown by this chart which I am spamming everywhere in the hopes people will see how stupidly unfair it is:

apjXnon.jpg


Prior to the big three takeover, the ICC distribution of funds was quite fair. Associates got funding to improve, the full members were on a level playing field and, crucially, there was a development budget set aside that couldn't be touched by anyone else, to be used as the ICC staff saw fit. (This could've, for example, been used to show the World Cup Qualifiers by setting up a streaming service which people could pay a small fee to watch.)

The B3 model went in the opposite direction. India, being the main source of income for global televised cricket, was used by the BCCI to argue that they 'deserved' to have the greatest share of the pot, because it was 'theirs' to begin with. The ECB (ie. Giles Clarke) put forward the ten team World Cup to back them up, because this would guarantee that India would play at least nine matches. CA, knowing how to look out for itself, backed them up. This took away the development budget, thereby leaving the ICC running on a shoestring budget with regards to their stated purpose of growing the game worldwide.

Furthermore, the Associate budget was cut so harshly that most of the funding has to go to the teams with ODI status, while the remaining nations get the leftovers. At the time, that meant that six out of thirty-eight teams would get the majority of funds distributed over four years. That is a long time to go without much funding.

When the B3 model was overturned last year, the initial proposal was better, but still a long way from the pre-B3 one. There was still no development budget, the BCCI alone would receive more than all the Associates, and all the full member nations would have a greater income than they used to. Furthermore, the ICC chose to do away with Affiliates, and made all non-full members into Associates, thereby increasing their potential funding. This meant there were now 94 Associates, of which only six would have ODI status and get the majority of funding.

After the BCCI complained about their funding, this was again changed in July so that they would receive three time what every other full member got, apart from the newly crowned Afghanistan and Ireland. Having left the Associate nest, they agreed to this plan that would give them far more funding (and permanent Test and ODI 'status') than ever before. The remaining 92 Associates, on the other hand, had less funds than ever before to distribute between themselves, and the ICC chose not to expand the number of teams with ODI status. Instead, the removed the position of ODI status as the decider of funding, instead tying it to performance in global events reached - which basically makes it tied to status anyway, just in a roundabout way and with the potential for a team with ODI status to a) play matches against full members (which full members never pursue if they don't have to) and b) go further up the pecking order at global events, thereby increasing their funding (proportional to the total Associate pool, which is still tiny).

The BCCI does not need this much money from the ICC. In fact, they barely need any. In the 2015-16 financial year they ran at a profit of $186 million, most of which was independent of distributed revenue from the ICC. The point of global tournaments that the ICC gets their income from should be to expand the game, both by having more teams there, and by using the revenue they receive at the tournaments as they see fit, rather than how the member boards see fit.

As it stands, the limits of ODI status stand in the way of multiple nations with great potential. Nepal could desperately use more funds to complete their new stadium. PNG could do with funding to expand the game beyond the village of Hanuabada. Namibia need funds to keep their best players from disappearing into careers, as do many other leading Associates.

So, again, is there any good reason why a 50-over match that is played under MCC laws and ICC regulations between two international teams that are member of the ICC should not be considered a One Day International? All members of the ICC should be considered worthy of funding, in order to expand the game and ensure that the international matches they play are of an ever increasing standard.
 
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If implemented properly, and I agree it's not currently, it has value in terms of protecting the integrity of statistics.

Agree they need to get rid of the funding differential.
 
If implemented properly, and I agree it's not currently, it has value in terms of protecting the integrity of statistics.

Agree they need to get rid of the funding differential.

I am ambivalent on the importance of statistical integrity to ODIs. It's not as though we aren't capable of sifting out stats we don't like anyway.
 

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Yep, nobody is fooled into thinking ten Doeschate is the greatest ODI player of all time by far so it's not a huge issue.

as a dutch supporter i am obliged to say that he is, in fact, the greatest ODI player of all time
 
I wouldn't be bothered if 50 over cricket stats and Twenty20 stats were merged. It's all limited overs cricket so why separate T20 matches when it comes to compiling statistics? Look at Greg Chappell's ODI stats, and others of his era, and included are 35 over games (8 ball overs), 40 over games (8 ball overs), 50 overs, 55 overs and 60 over games.
 
I’m not totally for a free-for-all. I’d certainly love to see a smidgen of commonsense. Not allowing all matches in a WCQ to be ODIs is pure insanity! And it’s not like there’s no precedent for ODIs being played by non-ODI nations. Bangladesh and Hong Kong both played Asia Cups prior to having status

I’d like to see ODI status in the higher end of WCL, possibly div 2 up...?
 
I’m not totally for a free-for-all. I’d certainly love to see a smidgen of commonsense. Not allowing all matches in a WCQ to be ODIs is pure insanity! And it’s not like there’s no precedent for ODIs being played by non-ODI nations. Bangladesh and Hong Kong both played Asia Cups prior to having status

I’d like to see ODI status in the higher end of WCL, possibly div 2 up...?

Why not every division of the WCL?
 
Why not every division of the WCL?

Because I’m elitist! :p

No, I can’t answer that. If they are playing to ICC regulations though, maybe they don’t have suitable venues that far down? Pure speculation here of course
 
Because I’m elitist! :p

No, I can’t answer that. If they are playing to ICC regulations though, maybe they don’t have suitable venues that far down? Pure speculation here of course

They do, otherwise they wouldn't be playing ICC events there.

The only reason they aren't conferred ODI status is, as far as I can tell, indeed about elitism.
 
Or the fact that they're rubbish and players from more established nations will pad their stats against them.

Should be talking about taking away ODI status from some teams rather than expanding it. You can still give the countries full whack of dollars for the matches they play.
 
Or the fact that they're rubbish and players from more established nations will pad their stats against them.

Should be talking about taking away ODI status from some teams rather than expanding it. You can still give the countries full whack of dollars for the matches they play.

The 'established nations' have no interest in playing Scotland, let alone Jersey. It wouldn't be an issue.
 

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Or the fact that they're rubbish and players from more established nations will pad their stats against them.

Should be talking about taking away ODI status from some teams rather than expanding it. You can still give the countries full whack of dollars for the matches they play.

To combat stat padding you could say all matches against opponents more than one division away are only counted as List A (to stop the likely Australian tour of Kenya & Uganda to pad stats) . Cricket should be expanding and giving ODI status to more teams, not less
 
The 'established nations' have no interest in playing Scotland, let alone Jersey. It wouldn't be an issue.
Just to think out loud, while the boards would obviously not be interested in burning money to pad their players stats, I wonder if giving a lower level of cricket ODI status could be a big incentive for domestic players from the top nations unlikely to get a game in their international side to sandbag the lower divisions (like the Canadian/USA teams used to have a lot of West Indies domestic cricketers/retired WI Test players)?
 
Just to think out loud, while the boards would obviously not be interested in burning money to pad their players stats, I wonder if giving a lower level of cricket ODI status could be a big incentive for domestic players from the top nations unlikely to get a game in their international side to sandbag the lower divisions (like the Canadian/USA teams used to have a lot of West Indies domestic cricketers/retired WI Test players)?

If there was money in it, perhaps. The ICC have made it easier by loosening one part of the regulations with regards to how long players have to wait.

But does it matter? Ireland was a predominantly expat team in 2007, and now they're almost entirely homegrown. The better teams get, and the more funding they get, in the long term the more they'll be able to do at home.
 
Is there any good reason why a 50-over match that is played under MCC laws and ICC regulations between two international teams that are member of the ICC should not be considered a One Day International?

During the World Cup Qualifier - not only this one but the ones that have come before - some of the matches that are being played are ODIs, but any that involve the Netherlands or Nepal are not. So, for example, UAE vs PNG was considered a One Day International, but the West Indies vs the Netherlands will only be a List A match.

This look doubly silly because the Netherlands have already gained ODI status due to winning the World Cricket League Championship, and after the Qualifier all their matches against other teams with ODI status will be considered ODIs. But the matches in the Qualifier itself? Nope, they don't count.

Further exacerbating this ridiculousness is the situation Papua New Guinea find themselves in, whereby it is in their best interests to lose to the Netherlands in their upcoming match. Why? Because if they win, they will have virtually guaranteed that they will be one of only two Associate nations (excluding Nederland) to miss out on the super six stage...and the bottom two Associates miss out on ODI status.

The Netherlands' victory in the WCLC meant that they get to join the 2019-2021 ODI Championship, a thirteen team competition comprising of the twelve full member nations and the top Associate nation (Nederland). This guarantees many ODIs across the two year cycle for all the teams participating, and with it a great increase in funding and resources. Scotland, who are currently the top team in the WCQ and who were just pipped at the post for the WCLC, will also have ODI status during that time, but currently have no guaranteed fixtures and far less available funding. Both nations, along with all their fellow Associates, also receive far less than the full member nations, as is aptly shown by this chart which I am spamming everywhere in the hopes people will see how stupidly unfair it is:

apjXnon.jpg


Prior to the big three takeover, the ICC distribution of funds was quite fair. Associates got funding to improve, the full members were on a level playing field and, crucially, there was a development budget set aside that couldn't be touched by anyone else, to be used as the ICC staff saw fit. (This could've, for example, been used to show the World Cup Qualifiers by setting up a streaming service which people could pay a small fee to watch.)

The B3 model went in the opposite direction. India, being the main source of income for global televised cricket, was used by the BCCI to argue that they 'deserved' to have the greatest share of the pot, because it was 'theirs' to begin with. The ECB (ie. Giles Clarke) put forward the ten team World Cup to back them up, because this would guarantee that India would play at least nine matches. CA, knowing how to look out for itself, backed them up. This took away the development budget, thereby leaving the ICC running on a shoestring budget with regards to their stated purpose of growing the game worldwide.

Furthermore, the Associate budget was cut so harshly that most of the funding has to go to the teams with ODI status, while the remaining nations get the leftovers. At the time, that meant that six out of thirty-eight teams would get the majority of funds distributed over four years. That is a long time to go without much funding.

When the B3 model was overturned last year, the initial proposal was better, but still a long way from the pre-B3 one. There was still no development budget, the BCCI alone would receive more than all the Associates, and all the full member nations would have a greater income than they used to. Furthermore, the ICC chose to do away with Affiliates, and made all non-full members into Associates, thereby increasing their potential funding. This meant there were now 94 Associates, of which only six would have ODI status and get the majority of funding.

After the BCCI complained about their funding, this was again changed in July so that they would receive three time what every other full member got, apart from the newly crowned Afghanistan and Ireland. Having left the Associate nest, they agreed to this plan that would give them far more funding (and permanent Test and ODI 'status') than ever before. The remaining 92 Associates, on the other hand, had less funds than ever before to distribute between themselves, and the ICC chose not to expand the number of teams with ODI status. Instead, the removed the position of ODI status as the decider of funding, instead tying it to performance in global events reached - which basically makes it tied to status anyway, just in a roundabout way and with the potential for a team with ODI status to a) play matches against full members (which full members never pursue if they don't have to) and b) go further up the pecking order at global events, thereby increasing their funding (proportional to the total Associate pool, which is still tiny).

The BCCI does not need this much money from the ICC. In fact, they barely need any. In the 2015-16 financial year they ran at a profit of $186 million, most of which was independent of distributed revenue from the ICC. The point of global tournaments that the ICC gets their income from should be to expand the game, both by having more teams there, and by using the revenue they receive at the tournaments as they see fit, rather than how the member boards see fit.

As it stands, the limits of ODI status stand in the way of multiple nations with great potential. Nepal could desperately use more funds to complete their new stadium. PNG could do with funding to expand the game beyond the village of Hanuabada. Namibia need funds to keep their best players from disappearing into careers, as do many other leading Associates.

So, again, is there any good reason why a 50-over match that is played under MCC laws and ICC regulations between two international teams that are member of the ICC should not be considered a One Day International? All members of the ICC should be considered worthy of funding, in order to expand the game and ensure that the international matches they play are of an ever increasing standard.
Get rid of ODI'S.
Get rid of 20/20.
Keep Test Cricket.

Bring in a hybrid 35/35, everyone's happy......
 
To give an indication of how dumb this is, the ICC twitter account has now twice made a mistake during the tournament while congratulating someone on an ODI record. The first was Rohan Mustafa taking 5fa against the Dutch, which they called an ODI 5fa (it wasn't), and now Mohammad Nabi on taking 100 ODI wickets (but he hasn't got there yet because today's match against Nepal isn't an ODI).

Get rid of ODI'S.
Get rid of 20/20.
Keep Test Cricket.

Bring in a hybrid 35/35, everyone's happy......

I think that would actually leave no-one happy.
 
To give an indication of how dumb this is, the ICC twitter account has now twice made a mistake during the tournament while congratulating someone on an ODI record. The first was Rohan Mustafa taking 5fa against the Dutch, which they called an ODI 5fa (it wasn't), and now Mohammad Nabi on taking 100 ODI wickets (but he hasn't got there yet because today's match against Nepal isn't an ODI).



I think that would actually leave no-one happy.
Would make me happy......
 
I think ODI status is fine. But the case of the Netherlands shows it isn't applied well. Once it is earned, it should be immediately applied.

It does give those not yet looking at full status something to strive for. Even if it is only a status, that can be useful when seeking sponsors and maybe open doors to getting games against lesser full member teams. (The ICC taking control of scheduling will unfortunately not happen, and even if it did it seems unlikely a fair spread of opportunity would happen.)

I would like to see it retained, but be a little easier to gain than to lose. Over time that may see a gradual rise in the number of ODI status teams, or perhaps not if they gradually become full members. And, yes, additional funding should come with that to develop the needs of the game - not the wants of the already powerful nations.
 
Hong Kong are feeling the repercussions of such slim margins in other ways too. In February 2017, they lost a pair of final-over nail-biters to Netherlands in round five of the WCL Championship. Five runs separated the teams in the first instance, 13 in the next. Flip either of those results and it is Hong Kong who win the WCL Championship to become the 13th team in the impending ODI League instead of Netherlands; both teams would have ended equal on 20 points but Hong Kong had the better net run-rate.

Netherlands have already felt that agony. In the 2011-13 WCL Championship, they finished one point behind Afghanistan and an automatic place in the World Cup was lost. A few months later, they were stripped of ODI status.

A Hong Kong team that registered their maiden ODI win over a Full Member on March 8, beating Afghanistan, saw their ODI status vanish one week later. A Nepal team that was thrashed by Division Three's USA in December - albeit with captain Paras Khadka resting - is now an ODI nation.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22795468/painfully-small-margins-associate-cricket

It is very difficult to justify the exclusion of a number of teams from 'ODI status' when the margins between them are so thin.
 
The whole 'ODI status' label could do with some improving, but I'm not totally against status being gained and lost, given it's implemented right.

The worst thing about associates and 'ODI status' is the severe lack of actual ODI cricket they play. If a team gains ODI status, they should get more international fixtures. PNG & HK have played * all ODIs up to this tournament.
 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22795468/painfully-small-margins-associate-cricket

It is very difficult to justify the exclusion of a number of teams from 'ODI status' when the margins between them are so thin.
I'm not sure the ICC really know what to do with the ODIs at the moment, I think they see T20 as a way of developing the game in new markets but are hamstrung by some of the powerful nations who see international T20 as a bit of an inconvenience.
 

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