And? Maybe we need people like that so we can actually get somewhere in the next few years.
List Mgmt. Orazio Fantasia not requesting a trade, time to move on
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And? Maybe we need people like that so we can actually get somewhere in the next few years.
- Feb 21, 2009
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What, a piss weak hit and a flop? Against the brute strength of Gray?
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Well done. That was a show about Greeks, Orazio is Italian.
Not even bothering to develop an opinion while Ken is still coach
- Feb 21, 2009
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Oh really.... I am Greek.
I'm just pointing out the irony in that it's ok to mock Europeans but a huge sin with other groups...
BT made a few comments on air a few of us got really offended about.
Butters Made Me Do It
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The last two seasons Fantasia has played 27/44 possible games and for 8 of those he’s gone goalless.
So adding a guy who in the last two seasons has only added a goal or more in 34% of his teams games is not at all likely to be the guy adding consistency to our lineup. Half the time he won’t be available, and a third of the rest he’ll be goalless.
Because his one good year was clearly the aberration and it was two years ago.
Who cares if he can beat Sam Gray’s goal output? We likely have others that can too and might as well find out rather than piss picks or talent away on a very injury prone stopgap who’s used to playing on the AFL’s driest track.
Back in the draftees ffs
another essendon plodder. no thanks
This times a bazillion. Forgive me if I'm a bit jaded about bringing in "the missing piece of the puzzle" while Bozo is still in charge.
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Sam Gray is relevant because he is the one we are trading out, and whom Fantasia would likely be replacing in our 22. He was also our third best forward this year, behind Rozee and Robbie.
We backed the draftees this year, Johnson, Butters, Farrell, Garner, Frampton, Rozee, Duursma, Ladhams, Marshall, Atley, Drew and Sutcliffe (technically a draftee) all got chances this year. Swapping Sam Gray (who played nearly every game) out for Fantasia (who you claim is injury prone) isn't exactly going to throw that policy out the window.
The only players who we drafted recently who didn't get a chance are Patmore (injured), Hayes (injured), Woodcock (pick 90?) and Cox/Pudney/Frederick (all first year rookie players).
At worst (and it would probably be a good situation if they were actually all in AFL quality form) we would have Motlop, Robbie, Watts, Dixon, Ebert, Fantasia and Howard as our forwards over the age of what? 21? Maybe Westhoff as well.
That's 8 players that can maybe play up forward over the age of 21. The chances of them all playing 22+ games are 0, the chances of none of them being moved into the midfield/backline are practically 0.
You also seem to be discounting the possibility of Butters/Rozee/other draftees pushing into the midfield which would create even more spots in the forward line.
We *barely* missed finals this year (assuming we do), so we are going to be trying to play finals next year. That means playing in form senior players, not having three to four 20 year olds, some of them rookie listed, as permanent fixtures in our forward line.
If we traded out/delisted/relegated-to-the-SANFL-all-year players like Robbie, Boak, Rockliff, Motlop, Westhoff, Ryder, and Dixon to "back the draftees" and finished 18th would you stand up and applaud Hinkley's bravery? If we did exactly what we did this year minus Sam Gray, Frampton and Ryder and finished 7th-9th again, would you turn around and decide that we did the right thing in both 2019 and 2020 and give Hinkley a big green tick of approval?
What you seem to be asking for is for the club to remove Sam Gray (our third best forward) and replace him with some random first gamer. And on top of this to significantly improve? Take this obsession this board has with Hinkley being a terrible coach out of the equation and that would be completely unexplainable. As though Clarkson would have us winning the premiership with the exact same players? I simply cannot get my head around it.
I've said a million times I'm happy to sack Ken and bring in someone else. He's had long enough.
But this idea that we should set our chances of winning the premiership on fire out of pure spite for the head coach?
It's just so, so negative.
I understand its annoying for me to say this s**t, but I just find this kind of negativity so frustrating. Ken Hinkley is the coach like it or not, and he deserves a shot at winning the flag, especially if he is still here next year. The club isn't going to demand he play the youngsters then sack him for missing finals, that is just not a thing - even if it were going to be the best thing for the club, which I sincerely doubt as that is some toxic-ass behaviour.
If we were to sack him right now and give someone else the reigns, they might get a grace period of a year or so to play young players and bottom out. And that might be the best thing for the club long term, but that coach is almost certainly going to have supporters demanding they be sacked halfway through their second year of being near the bottom of the ladder, which is exactly where they'll be if we don't bring in 24-26 year olds very soon.
I get that the best way to win premierships - in theory - is to wait until you have elite players, and otherwise just sit near the bottom of the ladder collecting high value draft picks, but the club just isn't anywhere near in a position to do that right now. No coach would accept that role (I mean I guess Primus did, but you all hate him so whatever), and the club would be forced either to give up even more control to the AFL or be straight up rebranded as crowds died off, sponsors disappeared, and the tarps reappeared. I mean its probably going to happen at some point anyway if something doesn't give.
People work in these jobs, they don't want to lose them and look like garbage just to help the club out. That's just reality.
Once again I apologise if I sound like I'm trying to be condescending, but I just honestly don't get it. I don't see what the club can realistically do to appease our supporters. And this concept of forcing Hinkley to play first year players and near guarentee his sacking is just really weird to me, that just isn't how you treat people.
Butters Made Me Do It
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Tl;dr - skimmed it.
I am not saying hinkley should play developing players to get him sacked but because its good practice and the best way to build your list.
Trading out a decent pick for a mid-career injury prone small forward is the textbook ******* opposite of best practice for a team in our position (experienced players near the cliff, bunch of young guys, not much in the middle)
We’re not here to scrape into finals with a team of grinders, we exist to win premierships. That means building, not making panicked bids for players you shouldn’t be chasing. Its like trading for a premiership push if 8th is your premiership. Its late Choco.
Any coach of the PAFC next year should be building. Yeah be competitive but any ins should be first class blue chippers or drafted/free pickups
The alternative is the low/mid-table wilderness Hinkley has us in, and that is already costing us members, fans, money and anything worth having a PAFC for
I am not saying hinkley should play developing players to get him sacked but because its good practice and the best way to build your list.
Trading out a decent pick for a mid-career injury prone small forward is the textbook ******* opposite of best practice for a team in our position (experienced players near the cliff, bunch of young guys, not much in the middle)
We’re not here to scrape into finals with a team of grinders, we exist to win premierships. That means building, not making panicked bids for players you shouldn’t be chasing. Its like trading for a premiership push if 8th is your premiership. Its late Choco.
Any coach of the PAFC next year should be building. Yeah be competitive but any ins should be first class blue chippers or drafted/free pickups
The alternative is the low/mid-table wilderness Hinkley has us in, and that is already costing us members, fans, money and anything worth having a PAFC for
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
You realise Fantasia is 23, right? Probably has 7-8 years of football left in him. Unless we did something really dumb like give up our first rounder it'd hardly selling out our future to bring him in.
Butters Made Me Do It
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When he’s breaking down with injuries this often I would call that optimistic.
Sure, but its definitely ******* nonsensical list management when we are loaded with small forward options right now.
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You can never have too many small forwards or half back flankers.
We could trade in Wayne Ablettfield Jr. and I'd yawn.
He’s a minor upgrade on S Gray. Very minor.
Playing well tonight, living up to his reputation
Is he out there? I have no idea
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Hopefully he's better than his old man, bloody egotistical drama queen, wife beating money chasing grub
Butters Made Me Do It
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Omitted due to injury
- Feb 21, 2009
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He's where he is more often than not...
A girlfriend glassing godbothering figjam. Get him into the make our community proudery programs asap
while the other two thirds of the rest he will kick over 2 goals a game.
Forwards are inconsistent by the nature of the game. They rely a good deal on the defenders doing their job and certainly the midfield doing theirs. Look at Rozee's performances over the year. They are up and down for the same reason.
Being so injury-prone is a concern.
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