Roast Our general fitness, strength and conditioning.

[ant555]

Oh I still agree on the premise that we are too small and the height absolutely helps, but the Dogs weren't anywhere near the physical size they are now. The way they won every areal contest and just bulldozed our mids at contests this year was embarrassing.

The handball skill and half back speed won them the GF. Sadly we have lost our half back speed and our skill level is not even close

 

[jordanl]

I've touched on this before but it's a joke. We have the most players under 80 kg on an AFL list. We regularly get beaten around the ball. Usually the trade off for being lighter is that you have a larger aerobic capacity but that doesn't seem to be true either considering we haven't really put in a 4 quarter effort this season.

BrunoV has said it so many times, it's as if since the saga we're afraid of putting muscle on players. Hell, we're afraid of putting these guys through proper conditioning! We're standing around, hoping that it'll all come through.

The average weight of our list is 83 kg. The median weight is 87 kg, which isn't too bad, but if you take out the KPP's the average drops to 81.9 kg and the median 83 kg. I was hopeful that whe we brought the Hawthorne guy in, someone who built their physical conditioning to basically the best in the league for a 5 year stretch we'd be better at this but it hasn't changed at all.

please name a hawthorn player that has a solid frame on him beside Jager who came from Gold Coast with it

 

[eDPS]

How good did Clarke look as a midfielder yesterday ? did not get near it. Sorry but you are hanging your hat on yet another late pick that was drafted based on he may be able to improve a flaw in his game. What we are doing with Clarke is totally irrelevant to the issues the list has. Well not totally the fact we drafted him has caused an issue. Should never have looked at a bloke who struggles to kick the ball. Lets face it we are talking about a bloke taken at pick 63. In many ways it was a better move to see what he could do as a forward as we do not need any more butchers in the midfield.

In the little amount that he was used I thought he looked pretty decent, worked hard without the ball and rarely wasted a possession when he got it under pressure which couldn’t be said for many others. He is one of our only players that can actually stand up in a tackle and still get a handball out, in fact he is one of our only players that will actually ride contact before releasing the ball.

 

[ant555]

In the little amount that he was used I thought he looked pretty decent, worked hard without the ball and rarely wasted a possession when he got it under pressure which couldn’t be said for many others. He is one of our only players that can actually stand up in a tackle and still get a handball out, in fact he is one of our only players that will actually ride contact before releasing the ball.

Would he get a game with anyone else ? I would be tipping no.

 

[eDPS]

Would he get a game with anyone else ? I would be tipping no.

Perhaps not but I’m damn sure if they did they wouldn’t play him on the wing! He has proven he can win the contested ball and actually put a teammate in a better position. For a player with his limited kicking he still somehow doesn’t turn it over nearly as badly as some of our other midfielders do week in and week out.

Anyway I was more making a point about his game on the weekend, going forward it’s very unlikely that he plays much more footy at the next level despite his endeavour.

 

[eth-dog]

please name a hawthorn player that has a solid frame on him beside Jager who came from Gold Coast with it

I mean I was clearly talking about their golden years with Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne et al.

Like, he started there start of 2012. So whilst he was there Hawthorne were the fittest team for their 3 peat...

 

[ant555]

Perhaps not but I’m damn sure if they did they wouldn’t play him on the wing! He has proven he can win the contested ball and actually put a teammate in a better position. For a player with his limited kicking he still somehow doesn’t turn it over nearly as badly as some of our other midfielders do week in and week out.

Anyway I was more making a point about his game on the weekend, going forward it’s very unlikely that he plays much more footy at the next level despite his endeavour.

We play him on a wing or as a forward as he can get off a reasonable kick in space and he tries to play the game plan. Sadly he is just poor under pressure in traffic and you can not get away with only having one trick.
I was making comment on the fact that there are so many seeing him as some sort of savior . I know he is one of the few midfielders we have drafted but we really should not have picked him.

 

[jordanl]

In all honesty who gives 2 poos about fitness / skills when our whole list has the heart of a pea. Legit Essendon are a bunch of year 7s that get bullied by year 12s. They can’t stand up for themselves and no one gives a * about them. Until they actually start asserting themselves in the contest and stop being pushed around by other teams nothing is going to change.

I would honestly enjoy the next game more if Rutten just said every time you tackle a port Adelaide make it hurt. Give them a simple goal and make them earn their possessions.

 

[eth-dog]

In all honesty who gives 2 poos about fitness / skills when our whole list has the heart of a pea. Legit Essendon are a bunch of year 7s that get bullied by year 12s. They can’t stand up for themselves and no one gives a fu** about them. Until they actually start asserting themselves in the contest and stop being pushed around by other teams nothing is going to change.

I would honestly enjoy the next game more if Rutten just said every time you tackle a port Adelaide make it hurt. Give them a simple goal and make them earn their possessions.

Because it's still an important part of the game?

 

[windyhill]

This theme reminds me of Essendon under Hird, getting sand kicked in our faces, by Geelong, of all teams and thoughts turning to supplements....

 

[owen87]

I don’t know whether it’s post-ASADA repercussions or just coincidence, but we certainly seem to be nowhere near the cutting edge of size / strength / endurance / speed in the league.

 

[RearNaked]

Our 2020 mids would get mauled by our 2012 mids and they have probably 3x the skill. Would even take Sam lonergan atm

 

[WindyHillWarrior]

For all of the other garbage that Weap brought, he sure did get our players fit and strong.

Had he and Danky not been complete cowboys, we would have been one of the fittest sides by 2013 - 2014.

 

[ant555]

Given we have replaced most of the strength and conditioning staff on the last 3 years it will be interesting to see how it pans out in the next 3 years.

 

[ant555]

For all of the other garbage that Weap brought, he sure did get our players fit and strong.

Had he and Danky not been complete cowboys, we would have been one of the fittest sides by 2013 - 2014.

And it would have been on the back of dodgy practices.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Given we have replaced most of the strength and conditioning staff on the last 3 years it will be interesting to see how it pans out in the next 3 years.

This is a sane comment. Thank you.

 

[NAB777]

In all honesty who gives 2 poos about fitness / skills when our whole list has the heart of a pea. Legit Essendon are a bunch of year 7s that get bullied by year 12s. They can’t stand up for themselves and no one gives a fu** about them. Until they actually start asserting themselves in the contest and stop being pushed around by other teams nothing is going to change.

I would honestly enjoy the next game more if Rutten just said every time you tackle a port Adelaide make it hurt. Give them a simple goal and make them earn their possessions.

Optimal fitness as a player requires no talent, other than being lucky enough to be born with a resilient body. Pea size heart & the (lack of) ability to bust your butt often go hand in hand. If you don't work to the limit in training, the mindset to do it is not going to magically appear when it gets tough in a game.

Now.. whether you are following a program that allows for optimal fitness is a different story.

 

[owen87]

Optimal fitness as a player requires no talent, other than being lucky enough to be born with a resilient body. Pea size heart & the (lack of) ability to bust your butt often go hand in hand. If you don't work to the limit in training, the mindset to do it is not going to magically appear when it gets tough in a game.

Now.. whether you are following a program that allows for optimal fitness is a different story.

Another issue (might) be; how many of our senior players are examples of elite fitness?

Our top games played are (in order, and > 100 games)

1. Zaharakis
2. Hooker
3. Hurley
4. Heppell
5. Shiel*
6. Smith*
7. Merrett
8. Bellchambers
9. Stringer*
10. Saad*
11. Daniher
12. McDonald - Tipungwuti

4 of them aren't from EFC, and of those who are Zaharakis is the only one you would argue is potentially elite fitness wise. Maybe Merrett.

Pretty much everyone else on that list has had injury issues and aren't really known for their fitness, or in the case of AMT isn't the guy who's going to be out the front setting the standards in training.

So you've got a guy in Zaharakis who's borderline best-22, and Merrett who has question marks on his two-way efforts.

Compared to Selwood setting the standard in-training and in-game for the past decade at Geelong.

We're going to be very reliant on guys like Shiel, Smith, Saad and McGrath moving forward imo - all are competitive and seem invested in setting high standards (though Smith has his moments).

We'd love a Nick Reiwoldt type forward right now, a KPF who will just run their heart out each and every week.

 

[FlyingV]

I was really surprised we didn’t go harder for Langdon and Tomlinson. I think they would have been a better fit for us then Melbourne and whilst they’re not the most skilful would certainly have raised the ability of our team to run our games as a whole... particularly with Ambrose cooked

 

[Vincent Hanna]

I'm more concerned with the conditioning aspect which stems from weak leadership. Allowing Stringer and Walla to play fat at the elite level is not good enough. Can't blame 2020 for this because it isn't the first season this has happened.

The undersized mids thing is an issue however, the whole saga BS started because Bomber and Weapon strolled in saying we were too small and needed to get bigger and quickly - nine seasons later and we are still too small and get bullied off the ball by the bigger more mature mids.

 

[Vander18]

Compared to Selwood setting the standard in-training and in-game for the past decade at Geelong.

I think genetics is as big an issue as the setting of standards. You don’t turn blokes into elite runners unless the underlying capability is there. Selwood was a very good middle distance runner as a kid, he’s built that way.

Shiel, Saad, Smith and McGrath (off the top of my head) all seem like real pros who do the work but none of them is an elite endurance runner. That’s because it’s not part of their athletic profile.

We simply haven’t drafted blokes with great athletic profiles. It really helps to have some sort of dominant physical trait as a player - whether that be speed, strength or endurance. Only a very small number on our list have any such trait and even fewer combine multiple traits.

McKenna was the best blend of speed and endurance on our list and he’s gone!

 

[84859300]

I'm more concerned with the conditioning aspect which stems from weak leadership. Allowing Stringer and Walla to play fat at the elite level is not good enough. Can't blame 2020 for this because it isn't the first season this has happened.

Be aware thatthere was a huge run of playing Stringer in burst through the middle, to try and improve our size. I feel they were allowing him to bulk to provide a big bum to get the ball, it has killed his ability to play fast in the F50.

Another case of EFC tryting to make a player into something they weren't

 

[owen87]

I think genetics is as big an issue as the setting of standards. You don’t turn blokes into elite runners unless the underlying capability is there. Selwood was a very good middle distance runner as a kid, he’s built that way.

Shiel, Saad, Smith and McGrath (off the top of my head) all seem like real pros who do the work but none of them is an elite endurance runner. That’s because it’s not part of their athletic profile.

We simply haven’t drafted blokes with great athletic profiles. It really helps to have some sort of dominant physical trait as a player - whether that be speed, strength or endurance. Only a very small number on our list have any such trait and even fewer combine multiple traits.

McKenna was the best blend of speed and endurance on our list and he’s gone!

I mean, yes there's a natural component to how far you go - players won't get to Scully / Whitfield / Blicavs level of running without having exceptional genetics to enable it - but every player should be preparing to a high standard irrespective of natural ability.

But more that, most of our senior guys have never been the ones out there pushing the level on the training track, setting the standards for how hard we work on and off field.

Take Hooker & Heppell for example; two of our most experienced players and leaders, but through injury have never been the guys out there pushing the limits at training and on-field.

Zaharakis is probably the only one of our experienced, drafted by EFC players that you could suggest is a reliable elite standard level of fitness. Whatever people think of his performance on-field, his actual preparation and fitness is always a high level.

We've got the guys brought in via trade in Smith, Shiel & Saad who also seem to be at that level, but if you're relying on trading in professionalism then I'd suggest there's an underlying culture problem.

Be aware thatthere was a huge run of playing Stringer in burst through the middle, to try and improve our size. I feel they were allowing him to bulk to provide a big bum to get the ball, it has killed his ability to play fast in the F50.

Another case of EFC tryting to make a player into something they weren't

Stringer is a funny one, I think it's simply that making him run the additional distances through the middle of the ground takes away his explosive side. He's looked every bit as explosive when carrying a bit of extra weight as he has when looking super lean and fit.

He's not a guy that needed to put on weight to play through the middle, he already had the size and power. It's the trade-off between endurance and power, and he seems to struggle to train alone which makes getting that balance right challenging.

Look at Petracca's performance this year to see what a similar kind of athletic profile can be with the right work.

 

[84859300]

Stringer is a funny one, I think it's simply that making him run the additional distances through the middle of the ground takes away his explosive side. He's looked every bit as explosive when carrying a bit of extra weight as he has when looking super lean and fit.

He's not a guy that needed to put on weight to play through the middle, he already had the size and power. It's the trade-off between endurance and power, and he seems to struggle to train alone which makes getting that balance right challenging.

Look at Petracca's performance this year to see what a similar kind of athletic profile can be with the right work.

IMHO, Bulldogs Stinger was lean, flying for marks, bringing the ball to the ground and leading

EFC Stringer is plodding jumping for marks and not much second effort

 

[owen87]

IMHO, Bulldogs Stinger was lean, flying for marks, bringing the ball to the ground and leading

EFC Stringer is plodding jumping for marks and not much second effort

He looked much better in round 1 from memory, think he's been one that's struggled with the restrictions on training with the group along with some injury issues curtailing him. Generally I think his second efforts and willingness to chase has been acceptable for the most part. He's not a guy that seems to have a natural inclination for endurance.