Opinion Possible unpopular opinion re: Coaching Team/Selection Committee.

[Tas]

Again, Tas, you've nailed it. Some of us are deemed Scott supporters simply because we state our disgust at the malicious, disrespectful, narrow-minded vitriol that is posted about him on that thread, when the fact is many "supporters" also have these serious reservations.

IMO, the team selections and match-day inflexibility in the first five rounds of this season are a microcosm of his entire tenure - just not good enough. This is very disappointing as I felt we had a clean slate at the start of the year following the 4 de-listings and therefore the mistakes of old would not be carried into this season. This continued failure is on the whole match committee, not just the coach, but as some have pointed out, the buck needs to stop with Brad.

Yeah, I understand that. People are passionate and express their feelings the way they can, some people struggle to articulate what they think or feel so kind of lash out and that tends to create a lot of friction between a lot of posters. I think when you just try to look and explain what you think and feel and do so without being insulting to the man there is more scope to have a worthwhile conversation.

After Brad went through the media circus last year, when justifying letting Boomer and the others go, he said:

"To deny young players the opportunity to play is not in the best interests of our team."

I think that is spot on and he used "we" a lot instead of "I" when talking about the decision the club made. I am not sure if he was on board with that, I can't find the video, but remember one press conference where he said if Boomer, Petrie, Spud, etc were on the list he would play them.

I think he has accepted the responsibility of being the messenger, I am not sure he is 100% on board with what he has been saying in relation to "the reset".

We are 5 rounds into this season and that is 5 games and we have Hibberd, Durdin, Mountford, EVW and Clarke on 1 game. I feel that some guys have only got an opportunity due to injury or suspension rather than an intent to back them in.

We have a lot of guys that need more than a token number of games if we are ever going to rely on them.

At the end of this year Waite will be gone and I think Thompson, Gibson, Swallow and Thomas should be asked to take on the leadership role for the VFL team and let go from the AFL list. We should evaluate if Wright, Daw and Jacobs can get and stay on the park or not.

I don't think McKay is going to be ready to go next year, unless he has a Durdin-like pre-season.

As much as I love Ziebell, he doesn't do much damage in the middle. I'd prefer him to spend more time up forward, bring in Clarke who can run and carry the ball. He is going to suck at times, but he needs continuity and needs time to adapt to AFL level. Ziebell can go into the middle when Cunnington goes off the ground.

Atley not doing much in the middle burns my retina, especially when he has guys around him busting their arse to give him the ball. I am not sure what his best role is, he shows signs that he will be good at various roles, just doesn't do enough of anything that is good. His development hasn't been a highlight for the club.

The midfield balance isn't great though, would like to see McDonald and Macmillan play there more, these guys aren't afraid to run and carry the ball.

So lets go with Cunnington(25/149), Dumont(21/25) plus McDonald(22/57), MacMillan(25/109) and Clarke(19/7) as the starting midfield group. It would be a young group that has a lot of football ahead of it, but has 2 experienced players and two young hard nuts in Dumont and McDonald who play like they are more experienced.

I would get excited if I saw that midfield front up next week, even if we lost by a point or get thrashed, it would symbolise that we are doing everything humanly possible to get these guys up to speed. Next year we get to add Ahern to the group and please mother of god I hope we can get Kelly.

It is exciting to see Wood and Garner up forward together. Brown is going to be a reliable, hard leading type. I think Ziebell should stick his hand up and be a half-forward leader, he is a very good mark for his size and generally uses the ball well around the forward 50. He should take ownership to push out of the forward 50 like Boomer used to do and help to generate attacks, but he should try and focus to get the ball between the 70m to 40m range of goal. When the midfield is sucking he should move in and have an impact, be the captain, be the leader. He just isn't having a lot of impact. He is doing a lot of grunt work atm but he is extremely low on polish.

Forward line: Brown(24/60), Wood(23/17), Ziebell(26/152), Higgins(29/166), Garner(23/20), Simpkin(19/4). Turner and Wagner can get a spot on the pine or get games if we rest/rotate Garner or Simpkin. You can't play with too many pocket/flanker types at the same time imo.

Back SIX (not SEVEN) line: Tarrant(27/89), Durdin(20/1), EVW(21/1), Williams(23/73), Mullett(25/71), Hansen(28/143). If we play a side with lots of smalls and not many/any talls to speak of then Hansen gets to go on a holiday and we can bring in another smaller defender.

I think that would give us experience on every line plus young developing players. I would play with Goldy and Preuss, they can pinch hit from time to time up forward but I wouldn't be giving them as much ToG as they have been. Goldy needs to do more around the ground, he used to rack up midfielder-like numbers, his work-rate hasn't been what it was a couple of years ago.

I have nothing against the players I haven't mentioned, I just don't think they are the priority this year. I think so far we have dropped the ball, if we are going to play the old guys to the extent we have, we should have given Boomer and Spud another year, they were better options than some that we are going with atm.

 

[hcd199]

I'd hazard a guess that we were in front at 3Q time in 80%+ of those 19 matches.

Roughly 63% - 12/19. I've bolded the games that I'd consider involved a genuine comeback from the opposition (even excluding Melbourne last year due to the wind factor, and Sydney 2011 due to the brevity of our dominance, it's still 10 of the 19, so more than half).

Spoiler: Unpleasant reading...

2010 d. Brisbane by 1 --- --- Up by 13 at 3QT (36 at HT)
2010 l. Essendon by 3 --- --- Down by 3 at 3QT
2011 l. West Coast by 4 --- --- Up by 2 at 3QT
2011 l. Sydney by 1 --- --- Down by 4 at 3QT (up by 22 in first quarter, back to 12 by QT)
2012 l. Essendon by 2 --- --- Down by 22 at 3QT
2012 l. Port Adelaide by 2 --- --- Up by 21 at 3QT (more in fourth?)
2012 l. West Coast by 2 --- --- Up by 15 at 3QT (27 at HT)
2012 d. Richmond by 4 --- --- Down by 7 at 3QT
2013 l. Geelong by 4 --- --- Up by 9 at 3QT (35 at HT)
2013 l. Hawthorn by 3 --- --- Down by 8 at 3QT
2013 l. West Coast by 2 --- --- Up by 4 at 3QT (13 at HT, 17 at QT)
2013 l. Adelaide by 1 --- --- Up by 18 at 3QT (more in fourth)
2013 l. Carlton by 1 --- --- Down by 21 at 3QT
2014 l. Brisbane by 4 --- --- Down by 20 at 3QT, 21 at HT
2014 d. Geelong by 6 --- --- Up by 24 at 3QT and HT
2016 d. Melbourne by 5 --- --- Up by 18 at 3QT (down by 7 at HT, up by 36 at QT)
2017 l. Geelong by 1 --- --- Up by 25 at 3QT
2017 l. Western Bulldogs by 3 --- --- Up by 4 at 3QT (11 at HT, more in third)
2017 l. Fremantle by 5 --- --- Up by 15 at 3QT (23 at HT)

 

[Egga]

For me, the only real selection howler this year has been recalling Thompson at Durdin's expense. I would have liked Hibberd and Durdin to have been given more than one game before being dropped to the magoos.

The young players who have been performing have been played in the 1sts asap (Simpkin, Garner, Wood, Turner, Hibberd, Williams, Hrovat, etc)

Clarke lost his place at the front of the queue with a poor preseason, while Anderson and Mountford have been decent without actually dominating at VFL level.

Wallow and Thomas have earned the right over many years to get a decent crack at it this year. I don't mind that, but their time has now come.

As long as Wallow and Thomas are dropped this week, then I'm happy enough overall with the decisions made by the selection committtee this year.

 

[ferball]

For me, the only real selection howler this year has been recalling Thompson at Durdin's expense. I would have liked Hibberd and Durdin to have been given more than one game before being dropped to the magoos.

The young players who have been performing have been played in the 1sts asap (Simpkin, Garner, Wood, Turner, Hibberd, Williams, Hrovat, etc)

Clarke lost his place at the front of the queue with a poor preseason, while Anderson and Mountford have been decent without actually dominating at VFL level.

Wallow and Thomas have earned the right over many years to get a decent crack at it this year. I don't mind that, but their time has now come.

As long as Wallow and Thomas are dropped this week, then I'm happy enough overall with the decisions made by the selection committtee this year.

I thought that once he came back Thompson justified that recall tbh.

 

[Egga]

I thought that once he came back Thompson justified that recall tbh.

Yes, I agree he has been good enough. But I also think Durdin played better in his one game than Thompson had to that point and so deserved to retain his spot.

 

[Firestarter]

Yes, I agree he has been good enough. But I also think Durdin played better in his one game than Thompson had to that point and so deserved to retain his spot.

Yeah it would have been fairer to wait for a bad performance than to kick him straight out for seniority alone.

 

[Event Horizon]

I don't have any inside sources. But the fact is we haven't changed our coaching setup for a while. That in itself isn't good and creates a comfortable enclosed feeling. We are in desperate need if some fresh blood and outside influence.


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[giantroo]

Just posted this in the non-north thread but I'll post it here too.

Take note North!

CHANGES AT SELECTION KEEPING PLAYERS FOCUSED: HUNTER


Western Bulldogs ball magnet Lachie Hunter says the omission of premiership players in recent weeks has kept the squad on notice.

Caleb Daniel and Shane Biggs were dropped following the club’s surprise loss to Fremantle, and replaced by fellow premiership duo Josh Dunkley and Clay Smith who themselves spent the first three weeks in the VFL, as competition for places rises.

“Definitely keeps you on edge a little bit,” Hunter said on SEN Breakfast.

“Those two players played such an important roles for us last year and you think to some extent they have their spots sown down after last year, but it just livens up the group again.

“It gives the VFL boys some hope and keeps all the people playing in the team on edge.”

For the second week in a row the Bulldogs overcame a deficit of over 30 points to storm home in the second half and Hunter said for the team to have won four from five while not at their best is positive heading forward.

“Clearly you’d love to be able to be playing four consistent quarters of footy, like we saw probably in our second half (against Brisbane),” he said.

“At the moment things aren’t going quite right for us and we’ve had patches in pretty much every game where we’ve been pretty poor in certain areas.

“The main thing at this stage is we’ve still managed to be 4-1 and hopefully the second half of that game on the weekend can continue into this week.”

In further positive news for the Bulldogs Mitch Wallis is expected to return via the VFL this week, after recovering from a terrible leg break suffered against St Kilda last year.

“He is going to play VFL this week, which has been a really good recovery,” Hunter said of Wallis’s quicker than expected return.

“It’s a lot shorter than what they first expected, it looked pretty nasty first up, but he’s getting back around the same time as Jack Redpath who did his ACL in the same game last year.”

 

[ferball]

Just posted this in the non-north thread but I'll post it here too.

I was about to do that.

 

[The Other Dean]

Criticism 5 rounds into a reset is unwarranted imo.

I absolutely agree.

To my mind, a lot of the complaints are borne of unrealistic expectation, and IMO seem disproportionate to the job the selection committee have been doing up to this point. Even for this notoriously criticism-heavy environment. Youngsters have been blooded right from the get-go, new faces have been given an opportunity to make their mark, and the team has a significantly different look to what it did last year. There have been a few selection decisions I haven't agreed with but that's no different to any other season. Talk of serial incompetence from the selection committee when we're a mere 5 rounds into the season is, by any measure, a tad premature.

But then I appreciate that time moves a little differently here on BigMyopia.

 

[tales129]

I thought that once he came back Thompson justified that recall tbh.

Yes, I agree he has been good enough. But I also think Durdin played better in his one game than Thompson had to that point and so deserved to retain his spot.

TBH I feel as though currently durdin is being held back because he's fighting for one of the two spots held by Taz and Lachie. He suits that mould better. They are currently playing better footy. Clearly Thompson has been tasked with the smaller mobile forward in the likes of stringer et al.

I don't think they are in competition. More likely to be Thompson vs vickers Willis when the opportunity for someone like wright to come back in occurs

 

[Brissyroo]

I had to unlike that on reflection because his kick to Brown the other week was pretty good.

My girlfriend is hopeless but hits me on the chest every so often - numbers game and we can all have the occasional good kick

 

[ferball]

My girlfriend is hopeless but hits me on the chest every so often

Honestly what other people do in private is none of my business.

 

[lockheed]

I absolutely agree.

To my mind, a lot of the complaints are borne of unrealistic expectation, and IMO seem disproportionate to the job the selection committee have been doing up to this point. Even for this notoriously criticism-heavy environment. Youngsters have been blooded right from the get-go, new faces have been given an opportunity to make their mark, and the team has a significantly different look to what it did last year. There have been a few selection decisions I haven't agreed with but that's no different to any other season. Talk of serial incompetence from the selection committee when we're a mere 5 rounds into the season is, by any measure, a tad premature.

But then I appreciate that time moves a little differently here on BigMyopia.

If I criticise the match committee's selections, it's not just on the basis of these first five rounds. It's because we seem to have the same selection style now (back the senior players irregardless of their form) that has been shown through Brad's tenure as coach.

Do you, for example, feel that given Petrie's form last year, he deserved to play every game? If you did, then you're probably happy with how the match committee selects the team. If you don't, then you have one thing in common with the Brad skeptics.

 

[The Other Dean]

Do you, for example, feel that given Petrie's form last year, he deserved to play every game? If you did, then you're probably happy with how the match committee selects the team. If you don't, then you have one thing in common with the Brad skeptics.

I did actually say that there are a handful of selection decisions that I don’t agree with in any given season. Drew’s continued selection despite him clearly being fricasseed would be an example from last year.

But what I don’t do is allow these examples to cloud my ability to acknowledge the large number of decisions that the selection committee gets right. Or taking it further, use these exceptions to form the basis of an accusation of selection committee incompetence.

If I criticise the match committee's selections, it's not just on the basis of these first five rounds. It's because we seem to have the same selection style now (back the senior players irregardless of their form) that has been shown through Brad's tenure as coach.

To be fair, with a “reset” should come a certain reset in supporter expectation. Obviously, there are different circumstances governing our selection this season as compared to last season. (Which fortunately is quite beneficial with regards to making it easier – at the appropriate juncture – to discern whether or not selection policy has indeed changed.)

But in a sense, what came before isn’t even particularly germane to my overriding point. From a sample-size perspective alone, is it too early to be talking definitives in selection policy when we are a mere 5 rounds (now technically 6, but was 5 at the time of my original post) into a 23 round season? Of course it is.

Development-wise, simply migrating 'the kids' into the side en masse is a less than ideal approach. Borderline negligent when it can be done in a more graduated fashion, and buffeted by experience. Despite how some people perceive the potential of our youth vs the talent (or lack thereof) of our more senior players, this notion that “the kids couldn’t do any worse than the old blokes” is in my opinion an incredibly simplistic take on list management. I know we lack on-field leadership at times, and our senior players are perfectly capable of screwing up on a regular basis, but let's not go hogwild.

Regardless, there is nothing I have witnessed this year that suggests a general aversion to giving opportunities to new faces. Trying to use the example of a few perceived selection oversights to weave a narrative of “selection hasn’t changed” or “Brad just picks his faves” when we’re sitting at the round 5/6 mark of the season, and have just dropped a couple of big names, seems a little disingenuous and trigger-happy in my book. But then patience and the big picture stuff has never exactly been this forum's strength.

 

[amaz199]

But then patience and the big picture stuff has never exactly been this forum's strength.

A rather compelling example is the Bye Bye Brad Thread. A lot of new posters have joined up to fire away with no filter resulting in reports and temporary bans. Admittedly, I was one of those posters in the early stages of my time on BF (to a lesser degree of insanity) but keeping my cool has kept me from posting rubbish that ultimately just didn't make sense. When we got smashed by Adelaide in Rd 1, 2015, I fired away questioning whether we were worthy enough to make the finals in 2014 or the chances we fluked it to a prelim. But you learn from mistakes and I certainly did.

Actually sitting down on the couch, watching replays and dissecting every bit of champion data or performance reports helps paint a better picture of where we think the club is at. Reading posts on this forum that have valuable points to build from improves seeing the big picture. Venting or ranting about how 'Scotts is a useless coach' and how he 'always picks the favs' is just a waste of time. Providing constructive content that posters can understand and discuss is what this board should be about. Unfortunately, there are trolls or keyboard warriors that just make this board a mess to visit. However, I keep reading and posting because of sensible posts like yours that actually allow readers to learn something or build from other posters ideas to form opinions/constructive discussion.

Over the course of watching North since 2007ish, I learnt we won't always have the best list, we won't attract guns like Kelly from GWS and we will get to a stage where we have a really good period of success where we have a genuine go at a flag but eventually drop off a couple of years after.

But 2017 paints a different story... I don't know how to describe it. Usually we would lose a coach or get reamed by 100+ to a good side but that hasn't happened this year... Maybe Brad Scott planned for the present and future and pulled off what he wanted to achieve.

I guess it is a bit of a weird situation down at Arden St. Or I'm going crazy because it is 3am and I got uni in the morning tomorrow. Can't put my finger on it...

 

[ozzyoslo]

Excellent use of paragraphs!

Bit harsh there QR......just play the comments not the grammatical errors.

You must remember those in here that chose NMFC as the club are 95% fair dinkum and love their club.....some with hearts on their sleeves etc Sure he/she has been here for 5 min and incorrectly has called BS on someone who's been here way longer........thats all you have to do, remind them that DP is a respected poster here, that deserves better and greater respect.
Lets lift the quality of posting here a notch. Instead of picking the crap out of ones writing skills........( oz has been away from an english speaking country and practices his grammar here to keep up to date)

Since Crocker has been mentioned, I personally think its time for him to fly the coop so to speak. Nothing against the man but for his own development its time to go elsewhere.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Speak for yourself OP. I have a hidden gender. :stern look

Boom !!

 

[ozzyoslo]

I think as part of a reshuffle he should be moved to Assistant coach rather than head coach.

I think he's really good in enough areas he would be a fantastic AC but he lacks certain things (such as game day nouse) to be a head coach in the current AFL climate.

He won't step down to an Ass Coach role.......he walks.

I think he is a good coach to start a fresh group, a group like Brisbane >>> which in hindsight could put some credibility to the rumour last year. Always difficult starting over again at the same club....not many coaches get the opportunity to do that.

 

[Snake_Baker]

If we play a side with lots of smalls and not many/any talls to speak of then Hansen gets to go on a holiday and we can bring in another smaller defender......

If Lachie doesn't have a direct match up then he usually ends up sitting on a ruckman that goes forward. He is a lock for the defence.

 

[Tas]

If Lachie doesn't have a direct match up then he usually ends up sitting on a ruckman that goes forward. He is a lock for the defence.

Some clubs have no ruckmen let alone a resting one.

 

[QueenslandRoo]

Bit harsh there QR......just play the comments not the grammatical errors.

You must remember those in here that chose NMFC as the club are 95% fair dinkum and love their club.....some with hearts on their sleeves etc Sure he/she has been here for 5 min and incorrectly has called BS on someone who's been here way longer........thats all you have to do, remind them that DP is a respected poster here, that deserves better and greater respect.
Lets lift the quality of posting here a notch. Instead of picking the crap out of ones writing skills........( oz has been away from an english speaking country and practices his grammar here to keep up to date)

Since Crocker has been mentioned, I personally think its time for him to fly the coop so to speak. Nothing against the man but for his own development its time to go elsewhere.

It was tongue in cheek. Lighten up.

 

[GarnerSmash]

After this weekend have played 14 players this year with less than 50 games experience for a total of 41 games.

Hrovat will have played 6.
Turner 6
Dumont 6
Garner 5
Preuss 4
Simpkin 4
Vickers-Willis 2
Wood 2
Hibberd 1
Mountford 1
Durdin 1
Daw 1
Clarke 1
Anderson 1

Anderson would have played more if not for injury. Same for Wood and Daw. It is very encouraging to see games pumped into this group, especially Dumont, Garner, Wood, Hrovat, Anderson and Turner, all of whom have been in the system long enough now to be physically ready.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

After this weekend have played 14 players this year with less than 50 games experience for a total of 41 games.

Hrovat will have played 6.
Turner 6
Dumont 6
Garner 5
Preuss 4
Simpkin 4
Vickers-Willis 2
Wood 2
Hibberd 1
Mountford 1
Durdin 1
Daw 1
Clarke 1
Anderson 1

Anderson would have played more if not for injury. Same for Wood and Daw. It is very encouraging to see games pumped into this group, especially Dumont, Garner, Wood, Hrovat, Anderson and Turner, all of whom have been in the system long enough now to be physically ready.

And no 200 game players this week. 5 gone in the off season, Waite is injured and Swallow and Thomas dropped.

 

[Kimbo]

After this weekend have played 14 players this year with less than 50 games experience for a total of 41 games.

Hrovat will have played 6.
Turner 6
Dumont 6
Garner 5
Preuss 4
Simpkin 4
Vickers-Willis 2
Wood 2
Hibberd 1
Mountford 1
Durdin 1
Daw 1
Clarke 1
Anderson 1

Anderson would have played more if not for injury. Same for Wood and Daw. It is very encouraging to see games pumped into this group, especially Dumont, Garner, Wood, Hrovat, Anderson and Turner, all of whom have been in the system long enough now to be physically ready.

Yep. We're pumping games into those who have been waiting for more opportunities for a good 18-24 months. Turner, Wood, Garner and Dumont have been waiting a while (injuries and suspensions aside) and I suspect some may not have recognised them being played as 'the kids are being played' because they've been in the system a while. At the start of the year, they were all under 30 games experience (Hrovat right on 30), with only him Daw, Turner and Dumont at or above 20. I'm hoping that the time in the system means a more rapid development from this point on for those guys and, arguably, we're already seeing that.