Training Pre Season 21/22

[richoatthedisco]

Fevola Pick 38
Carey was purchased off the swans for $10k
Fraser Gehrig pick 57
Jack Darling pick 26
Taylor Walker -75
Hipwood - pick 30
Nick Larkey pick 73
Matt Tabener - rookie draft.
Harry Himmelberg - pick 16
Matthew Lloyd - Pre-season draft
Barry hall - pick 19
Jack Riewoldt pick 13
Chris Grant - pick 105
Daniel Bradshaw - pick 56


We should have as much chance as anyone really to get a KPF over the next 2 years, even if we finish top 4 as the spread of where they are found tends to be pretty wide.

Well noted. Just a couple of clarifications for the sake of accuracy: Walker went at 75 because he was a NSW zone selection (it was a thing for a year or 2) and Lloyd was a 16-year-old concession selection as compensation for Essendon 'losing' Todd Ridley to the fledgling Dockers. (Well played Sheeds, you wily fox.)

 

[RJKTiger]

Soldo looking massive. Will be great to have him back. Hope they can find a way to fit both him and Nank in the 22. Soldo is a better tap ruckman (taller) but Nank is a heart and soul of the club, crunch time player… in Nank we trust

I think they will have to find a way to play both either way as Nank desperately needs a break otherwise we will run the risk of his career ending far earlier than we would like.

Nank could find himself swinging back and forward a lot more, which is a good thing. We have seen how useful he can be dropping back, especially in the last 5 minutes of games - but Nank actually could be quite a damaging 3rd tall Key position pressure forward with his hard running and intense tackling. Nank also could be a ******* beast as a bulldozer clearing out packs of players due to the opposition flooding back.

If you were a floating, sweeping 3rd tall backman - wouldn't the footsteps & grunts of Nank the Tank test your courage a bit? I would think this would have to make life easier for our smalls like MRJ

Realistically, our forward line has the potential to be a swiss army knife full of kitana's. In any single game you might find yourself having to combat match ups for Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty, Bolton, Stack, MRJ, Toby, Balta, (yes i said Balta), Soldo, Caddy. Realistically all of these players could find themselves in the same 22 as they are capable of playing various positions - but all of them do have the potential to cause massive headaches if switched mid-game.

No excuses Teague - you got the stock

 

[RJKTiger]

Well noted. Just a couple of clarifications for the sake of accuracy: Walker went at 75 because he was a NSW zone selection (it was a thing for a year or 2) and Lloyd was a 16-year-old concession selection as compensation for Essendon 'losing' Todd Ridley to the fledgling Dockers. (Well played Sheeds, you wily fox.)

yep all correct. That is actually where so so many KP players do come from - Zone, Academy, Father/sons etc. An unusually high amount have come from those types of picks

 

[tropicaltiger]

Jack Graham.

good comparison, both dont take fancy grabs or boot it over 50m but they know when to break into open spaces at the right time. jack needs to lift it up a cog and Kane needs to stay injury free and we get into the 8 just on them 2 vital cogs alone.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Who absolutely smashes baker in the opening 5 seconds of the training highlights?

Bloody beautiful


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[Yappie dribbles]

Who absolutely smashes baker in the opening 5 seconds of the training highlights?

Bloody beautiful


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Marlion pickett

 

[Grrr]

There is no harm in trying anything.... at the right time.

If we are winning or losing by 40 points at half time, sure - try Balta up forward & see how it goes. If Lynch &/0r Jack go down, sure try Balta up forward.

There is a difference between trying him & developing him to be a forward though and that again is where most of the disagreeing comes in.

Remember when we "tried" Jack Ross across HB ? Changing a player under 24's development is not something i like to fu** with, especially if the development is going exceptionally well. You can't just spend a year developing him as a Forward and then expect you can shift him straight back is it doesn't work out & he will be the same player. There is risk involved with ******* with something that is working & a young kids development. Its something you tend to do is a player is failing to develop how you wanted, ala Liam Jones.

If the club wants to try him down there for a quarter here & a half there in games where its appropriate, got no real problem with that. But ultimately, he is still a backman if thats the case.

Ross had neither the speed of the kicking skills to play half back so was always going to fail.

Balta has all the physical skills to be a CHF, not sure about his forward craft, none of us are. Until he is tried there we will never know. He could be anything, or he could go back to the backline possibly a better player for it.

Plenty of players move in their careers, early or late. Short, Riloi, Baker, Vlastuin, etc

 

[Rubber Hips]

Tigers excited by new-look backline

Richmond's defensive unit is looking forward to welcoming some fresh faces into the fold in 2022.

www.richmondfc.com.au

Floss says….
Daniel (Rioli's) been training really well and we've also got (Josh) Gibcus and (Tom) Browne...they're really solid as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're playing early this year."

Balta is expecting Boggy to debut early this season

…and everyone loves Tarrant

 

[JR82]

I guess thats where everyone disagrees - it would be quite poor management from our team to spend 4 seasons developing Balta as a defender, get him to the point where he is in the top tier of KP defenders in his age group - just to move him down forward because we failed to re-sign Chol or CCJ. I am 100% in the "we need more KP forwards" boat - literally said it all pre-season to my usual amount of exhaustion - that we needed to recruit one, or at least a mature age back up to keep structure etc.

As far as we know with Gibcus, he could be a total dud. Or, he might play a few games up forward next season in the VFL and kick a bag and we will find out he is Tony Modra. He could do a knee in round 10 and never look the same. Point being, we need to make sure this kid can actually make it as a KPD before we start moving blue chip prospect players into unknown new positions etc

Making list management decisions on assumptions and not known facts can be a dangerous game. We know Balta has shown elite potential in the role we have spent 4 years developing him - to move him away from that due to the failure to re-sign others and on the assumption that our newest recruit is going to be superior is folly, especially when you consider that it usually takes 4 seasons before you actually know if the can pay up on that said "potential" .

We should just focus our drafting and free agency moves to getting the next Key position forward. We did that with Lynch for 2 flags and i think we have the market to do the same again. Time to work on the King brothers, Nick Blakey etc & also hope Samson Ryan can come on a bit more. I get the romantic notion of Balta up forward and actually have said it myself over the years, but the kid has shown he can be an elite defender and with Rance, Astbury, Grimes, Houli & Tarrant all certain to be gone within 2 years - i just don't see why we think we have the luxury to move Balta to be a permanent forward

FWIW i agree his #1 spot is back, but, and i am only trying to see what the Club may be thinking, with Tarrant coming in this yr to take Astbury's spot, could the Club be thinking Gibcus is ready for Rd 1 & Balta could be fwd at least for this yr till we get to either FA or Draft a KPF for the future? Given that of all the backs we have he's probably the best candidate to play fwd if jack or Lynch go down? Thing is if Gibcus is ready we can't play them all down back. Again i'm only trying to see what the Club may be thinking/planning for this yr as we have plenty of key backs but the depth is bare with the fwds, assuming the Club also see's Ryan as not yet ready for it this yr which isn't to be expected anyway. Just a thought.

 

[JR82]

Did it work that well in 2019. Nank played 12 games, some of those battling a groin injury before doing a ankle. He was pretty average that year.
Soldo only played 14 games in 2019 so they couldn't have played that many games together. Besides Nank and Soldo have pretty much the same average in hit outs, so it is not like Soldo is a much better ruck.

In 2020 it was similar, Nank played only 11 games and Soldo 14.

In my eyes Nank is a far superior player with nearly double the disposals and marks and is nearly a midfielder at ground level. When fit he 'feasts' on all rucks bar the top half a dozen rucks. Thought he was very good against Gawn this year.

Reckon Soldo might take a while to find form after 18+ months out, but that will depend a bit on preseason form. It will also depend a lot on if we like up with an extra tall up forward I think, and think he will definitely play in tandem with Nank against those better rucks.

In the 2nd half of '19 i reckon it worked well & in '20 Soldo's around the ground stuff was improving before being injured, he was even starting to take marks around the ground as Nank does. Given Soldo is coming off a serious injury the plan may be to ease him in to the season, certainly don't expect him to be a World beater from the beginning but those 2 will team up at some stage, certainly against the better rucks in the comp or sides with a decent 2nd ruck where we'll have to match them.
FWIW statistically Soldo is better at hitouts whereas Nank is better around the ground so they compiment each other very well.

 

[JR82]

Nank is a better player no doubt but soldo is by far the better ruck. They did work well together in 19 which culminated in a solid finals series and premiership. Soldos form in 20 until the Porkins push was quite good. 2 rucks is better then 1 and a hybrid.
We get smashed in clearances and a fit soldo remedies a fair bit of it

Just to add to this, we had Nank who was injured last yr to a point where he could barely jump by the end of the season & when Nank was out we had 2 hybrids. little wonder our midfield got hammered. having these 2 back this yr will be massive for us. keep in mind even with just Nank in '20 Finals series we were the dominant clearance team in the Finals so our midfield can do it.

 

[JR82]

i dont subscibe and never have to the ideal that Chol was a serious back up KPF on the basis that he was always rookie listed and was more of a on the cheap project hit or miss exercise than a player Richmond knew would make it,it was always a case of hope, so in my view have we lost a serious KPF in Chol ? the answer is a definite NO
The jury is still out on Coleman-Jones ,his draft position suggests he has what it takes.its a wait n see
With Samson being picked in the low 40's id say hes along the lines of the Chol ideal,a development hope n nothing more,if it works its a bonus if it
doesnt,nothing lost,was picked in the 40's
some of these low picks and rookies will work out but the chances of jagging a premiership winning KPF in the 40's + or the rookie draft are next to no chance.

History shows, and u can see it in the comp now, if u go through all the top KPF's in the game the vast majority were top 15 picks in the Draft. as for Chol he plays like a small without the 2nd efforts.

 

[JR82]

Sideshow Brown pick 47
Tom McDonald pick 53
Zaine Cordy pick 62
Sam Reid pick 38
Cam Mooney pick 56

Paddy McCartin pick 1
Jon Patton pick 1
Jack Watts pick 1
Scott Gumbleton pick 2
Sam Day pick 2
Mitch Thorp pick 6
Beau Dowler pick 6
John Butcher pick 8
Tyrone Vickery pick 8
Sam Weideman pick 9

Just sayin'.

Go back a yr & Melb tried to offload McDonald & nobody wanted him. Cordy is a backman as well & McDonald was before being moved fwd due to need

 

[JR82]

Of course you could. However, my post was in response to the claim that it's virtually impossible to find premiership key forwards after pick 40. It's hardly ridiculous to list five examples of such from the past decade.

I'm curious as to the hit/miss ratio in the 1st round compared to 40+ or even 2nd round +. Without knowing myself i'd guess that's where the idea for the post would come from.

 

[JR82]

One you take a step back and the other step forward. Who doesn't know that?!



Agree. The cost was way to high to get him in. We would have paid a high price both dollars wise and re: the draft. I'm happy with the haul we got.

If the stars and planets align for us and absolutely everything goes right for us, we contend one final time.

If not, rebuild starts and we have some good kids in the door.

Worse case & we have another developement year instead of contending, the rebuild has already begun & we start pumping some games into them. A Grand send off for some of our Legends would be great but we can also kickstart our next wave as well & avoid years down the bottom again. If we can contend while getting games into our kids along the way (say best 18 plus 4/5 kids incl the sub or best 20/3 incl sub) that's "fizzing at the bumhole" stuff right there.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Cut to the chase.
How many years has RCD got left?
We've been pretty generous in terms of having him on the list.

 

[JR82]

There is no harm in trying anything.... at the right time.

If we are winning or losing by 40 points at half time, sure - try Balta up forward & see how it goes. If Lynch &/0r Jack go down, sure try Balta up forward.

There is a difference between trying him & developing him to be a forward though and that again is where most of the disagreeing comes in.

Remember when we "tried" Jack Ross across HB ? Changing a player under 24's development is not something i like to fu** with, especially if the development is going exceptionally well. You can't just spend a year developing him as a Forward and then expect you can shift him straight back is it doesn't work out & he will be the same player. There is risk involved with ******* with something that is working & a young kids development. Its something you tend to do is a player is failing to develop how you wanted, ala Liam Jones.

If the club wants to try him down there for a quarter here & a half there in games where its appropriate, got no real problem with that. But ultimately, he is still a backman if thats the case.

I tend to think he's training there so he can learn the leading patterns etc for if he's needed there. If he is needed there at some point he's going to need to be ready for the change. A track watcher over at OER tells us F50 entries are a focus this summer (sure as hell we all know they need to be) so he's got to be across that if he wants to be able to play the role, again if he's req'd this yr. I could be wrong but that's how i'd guess we are planning his training. it'd make no sense to send him there if he's not trained with the other fwds re: how they want it all to work with leading, when to fly or not etc so they don't go spoiling each other.

 

[JR82]

I think they will have to find a way to play both either way as Nank desperately needs a break otherwise we will run the risk of his career ending far earlier than we would like.

Nank could find himself swinging back and forward a lot more, which is a good thing. We have seen how useful he can be dropping back, especially in the last 5 minutes of games - but Nank actually could be quite a damaging 3rd tall Key position pressure forward with his hard running and intense tackling. Nank also could be a ******* beast as a bulldozer clearing out packs of players due to the opposition flooding back.

If you were a floating, sweeping 3rd tall backman - wouldn't the footsteps & grunts of Nank the Tank test your courage a bit? I would think this would have to make life easier for our smalls like MRJ

Realistically, our forward line has the potential to be a swiss army knife full of kitana's. In any single game you might find yourself having to combat match ups for Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty, Bolton, Stack, MRJ, Toby, Balta, (yes i said Balta), Soldo, Caddy. Realistically all of these players could find themselves in the same 22 as they are capable of playing various positions - but all of them do have the potential to cause massive headaches if switched mid-game.

No excuses Teague - you got the stock

Lever would s**t himself if Nank went fwd just to make him accountable.

 

[lumpinee]

Ross had neither the speed of the kicking skills to play half back so was always going to fail.

Balta has all the physical skills to be a CHF, not sure about his forward craft, none of us are. Until he is tried there we will never know. He could be anything, or he could go back to the backline possibly a better player for it.

Plenty of players move in their careers, early or late. Short, Riloi, Baker, Vlastuin, etc

Alistair Lynch
Flags Defending - 0
Flags Attack - 3

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Great to see Ash win. She is amazing.

Don’t bet much but first leg of a multi in. Thanks Ash, more money going on our 2022 Premiership.

Been putting a bet on us every week since Melbourne’s win and a nice boost there from Ash.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Cut to the chase.
How many years has RCD got left?
We've been pretty generous in terms of having him on the list.

3 years for a first round pick and your saying we’ve been generous? Lol.


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[JR82]

Cut to the chase.
How many years has RCD got left?
We've been pretty generous in terms of having him on the list.

Club always knew he'd take time & given where we were when we drafted him it's time we could afford to take developing him. His chance will come

 

[Nostradumbass]

Club always knew he'd take time & given where we were when we drafted him it's time we could afford to take developing him. His chance will come

Let's see how his fitness is, he's rooted after half time.

 

[JR82]

Let's see how his fitness is, he's rooted after half time.

Ceasar's updates indicate he's improved him fitness this yr, had been working with K.Lambert before pre season started

 

[nineteen eighty]

Lever would sh*t himself if Nank went fwd just to make him accountable.

Nothing to do specifically with preseason but for the life of me I can't understand why teams don't make those intercept mark play makers accountable by putting a man on them. I still think the master stroke in 17 was Townsend going forward in that last month and playing close and hard on those types of blokes. We won a flag off the back of it.

Why wouldn't a club man those playmakers up?

And I don't think it's Nank. He's just not fast enough to be able to get from contest to contest in the forward line. Pinch hitting sure.