Preview Rd 19 Carlton v Hawthorn - Saturday 30th July 2.10PM @ Aurora Stadium

[Ash05]

I hope Bolton puts someone on Gibson to make him accountable. Sick of watching this bloke get uncontested possessions because he plays loose man. I hope we open up our forward line so we can isolate him in 1 on 1's. See how he goes when not given free reign

 

[Windhover]

Those are great reasons to throw around encouragement and use an individual as a metaphor for the goals of the group, but it's not a good reason to keep picking him.

Truth is, he could do plenty to further his abilities (most notably decision making and skill execution), but he hasn't. If I'm kicking puppies in this metaphor, you guys are mindlessly patting them on the head for repeating the same trick over and over.

Is he too simple-minded to improve these glaring weaknesses? I don't believe so, so why all the praise?

I agree with your general assessment of White - that he is not up to the level of AFL. I disagree with you and think he is doing everything he can do and I do not think he should be dropped.

As to the first statement, that he is not up to the level, since we agree I shall say no more.

As to the second statement - that he could improve his abilities - White has the strength, speed and kicking skills to be an AFL player. What he lacks is being able to think at the level. This is very hard to teach. Lance Whitnall (like Cripps) could think at the level from the get go. White, like Lance's dad Graham, does not and never has been able to think at the level. I remember his first game, played as a mature-aged defender on Birdman back from injury. A clearly underdone Birdman had a picnic. The thought that it was first game nerves were dispelled by his next two games which were equally poor.

That said, it has surprised (delighted) me to see White given tasks that he is at least as competent at performing as any other player he would be keeping out of the team. He has played as a defensive forward responsible for his opponent and played back loosely. It will be a pleasure when we have a list strong enough to not need to pick him.

I'm struggling to think of any poor decision making or skills errors from White in some time.

You only have to think back to WC 2 weeks ago. It was White who fumbled the ball passed to him then fluffed a simple handball into the arms of the WCE player in the middle of the ground. This fumble led to WC goal and going to 62 points to our 35. Had White not fumbled it would have been us with a very promising attack on goal from the fat side of the ground. A goal then and 56 to 41 was very much game still in play. The fumble was not because White cannot execute the skills needed to take possession of the ball and make an easy handball. He can do this easily. He just can't do it under the pressure of an AFL game. Never could. Never will.

 

[Windhover]

Absolutely. Will be hard to keep out this week.

Whiley has his short-comings but should have got himself up to speed to support Cripps by now............no better time to start than this week.

I hope Whiley's cards are marked. Even at VFL level where he can get heaps of ball against lesser opponents, he does little of value with it beyond kick it down field. You certainly don't start licking your lips with relish at what he is going to do next. It is generally a relief if he has got rid of the ball without being tackled.

 

[LanceRomance]

Absolutely. Will be hard to keep out this week.

Whiley has his short-comings but should have got himself up to speed to support Cripps by now............no better time to start than this week.

cookie monster

yep, wonder if he will be a tagger? And for some reason Hodge is doubtful this week too.

 

[Jimmae]

Absolutely. Will be hard to keep out this week.

Whiley has his short-comings but should have got himself up to speed to support Cripps by now............no better time to start than this week.

Unfortunately, Whiley's shortcomings are his hamstrings and his decision making.

The perfect replacement for Kerridge is Thomas.

 

[jimsta10]

Does anyone remember the game against Hawk (last year I believe), when Simmo took that intercept mark in their forward 50 preventing a certain goal? Momentum is going our way...hope we keep up the intensity, awesome to watch. Will be watching this game in Saigon with my mate.

 

[Azul]

Unfortunately, Whiley's shortcomings are his hamstrings and his decision making.

The perfect replacement for Kerridge is Thomas.

Thomas's shortcomings are that he can't kick 45m, is slow, a massive drain on the salary cap and no longer has the tank to rotate through the midfield.

 

[HARKER]

Unfortunately, Whiley's shortcomings are his hamstrings and his decision making.

The perfect replacement for Kerridge is Thomas.

That would be right but no better time to bring in Whiley than now.
We may regret doing so but I have no issue rewarding good vfl form.

Not sure we lost hope for Whiley just yet although I'd understand if we did.

 

[Jimmae]

Thomas's shortcomings are that he can't kick 45m, is slow, a massive drain on the salary cap and no longer has the tank to rotate through the midfield.

I'll give you the salary cap, but surely he has dispelled all of your other notions this season?

 

[HARKER]

Does anyone remember the game against Hawk (last year I believe), when Simmo took that intercept mark in their forward 50 preventing a certain goal? Momentum is going our way...hope we keep up the intensity, awesome to watch. Will be watching this game in Saigon with my mate.

I love Saigon. Jealous. The deer's penis is good this time of the year.

 

[LanceRomance]

I love Saigon. Jealous. The deer's penis is good this time of the year.

One thing is for sure... that when I am involved there is never enough to go around..


by the way... are you jealous or envious?

 

[Azul]

I'll give you the salary cap, but surely he has dispelled all of your other notions this season?

He's a smart footballer with a touch of class but no, I don't think he's doing much more than making up the numbers in a bottom 6 side. I certainly wouldn't be rushing Thomas back into the senior side after missing 3 weeks.

Whiley has done admirably in the VFL accumulating huge numbers and been named emergency multiple times. What more can he do? Team balance requires another onballer more than yet another half back flanker this week.

 

[Brown n Gold]

I hope Bolton puts someone on Gibson to make him accountable. Sick of watching this bloke get uncontested possessions because he plays loose man. I hope we open up our forward line so we can isolate him in 1 on 1's. See how he goes when not given free reign

I love that the Hawks have 3 blokes who play loose man in defence. Hodge, Birchall, Gibbo... effectively we have 3 defenders that play defence first football. Most weeks it is Frawley & Brand will play on the 2 best talls.. Stratton plays on the dangerous small to medium. That leaves Gibson to play on the 3rd tall (usually a spud) so depending on the opposition that is either their resting ruckman or its their 4th or 5th most dangerous forward.

Gibson gives very little respect to his opponent so he can come across and lend a hand to Frawley and Brand. It also means that he is often in space when we get the ball because defensively he hasn't been playing close to his opponent. So from the oppositions perspective it is up to that player to get dangerous.. you also need enough forward line depth to keep the other 3 pure defenders busy. Someone like Andrejs Everitt would have been a good matchup for Gibbo from a Carlton perspective. But I think you are going to struggle with a lack of dangerous forward options. Your top goal kickers for the year are White and Gibbs with 16 a piece.

I've enjoyed watching the Blues under Bolton I think he is a smart coach and I think he will definitely expose a couple of Hawk weaknesses on the weekend. Surely Mitchell gets a hard tag from Curnow, or maybe Bolts tries to shut down our runners, Hill & Smith... Will be interesting!

 

[1981]

Can the lads put in a third Herculean effort in as many weeks?

Jack must be itching to sing the song.

 

[ferrisb]

I love that the Hawks have 3 blokes who play loose man in defence. Hodge, Birchall, Gibbo... effectively we have 3 defenders that play defence first football. Most weeks it is Frawley & Brand will play on the 2 best talls.. Stratton plays on the dangerous small to medium. That leaves Gibson to play on the 3rd tall (usually a spud) so depending on the opposition that is either their resting ruckman or its their 4th or 5th most dangerous forward. This allows Gibson to give very little respect to his opponent so he can come across and lend a hand to Frawley and Brand. It also means that he is often in space when we get the ball because defensively he hasn't been playing close to his opponent. So from the oppositions perspective it is up to that player to get dangerous.. you also need enough forward line depth to keep the other 3 pure defenders busy. Someone like Andrejs Everitt would have been a good matchup for Gibbo from a Carlton perspective. But I think you are going to struggle with a lack of dangerous forward options. Your top goal kickers for the year are White and Gibbs with 16 a piece.

I've enjoyed watching the Blues under Bolton I think he is a smart coach and I think he will definitely expose a couple of Hawk weaknesses on the weekend. Surely Mitchell gets a hard tag from Curnow, or maybe Bolts tries to shut down our runners, Hill & Smith... Will be interesting!

I like the analysis, B&G.

Unfortunately for us, even at full strength we don't have the fwds to exploit your defensive setup.

And that's more so the case with Curnow out, Casbout out of form / playing injured and Walker & Everitt not in the team.

 

[Sector 7G]

I'll give you the salary cap, but surely he has dispelled all of your other notions this season?

Thomas has played 3 good-excellent games, 3 OK-good games and been ok-poor in the other 8 games this season.

Another underwhelming season considering what we should be getting from a player on the coin we are paying Daisy. Is now a list clogger that will prevent the development of younger players.

 

[1981]

Thomas has been average at best, and certainly if his current form is as good as he will offer then he isn't worth the money he is reportedly being paid.

This was a bust.

 

[Brown n Gold]

I like the analysis, B&G.

Unfortunately for us, even at full strength we don't have the fwds to exploit your defensive setup.

And that's more so the case with Curnow out, Casbout out of form / playing injured and Walker & Everitt not in the team.

Yeah that has been our strength since Lake & Frawley. Basically teams struggle to isolate against our weaker one on one defenders. Having said that Gibbo can hold his own 1 on 1 also.

 

[Aphrodite]

Simmo!

listen to this on Audioboo

 

[Jimmae]

Thomas has played 3 good-excellent games, 3 OK-good games and been ok-poor in the other 8 games this season.

Another underwhelming season considering what we should be getting from a player on the coin we are paying Daisy. Is now a list clogger that will prevent the development of younger players.

He was questioning his pace, long kicking and endurance. Nothing wrong with any of them after shaking off some rust.

He's been handy most weeks, and the only players who have looked consistently better than him in midfield are all in his salary bracket save for Ed Curnow. No one's debating that we haven't got our money's worth, but save for last year's shoulder injury, we got exactly what we paid for.

 

[ferrisb]

Simmo!

listen to this on Audioboo

Must be very happy with the contract talks.......that's the least frowny I've seen Kade in ages!

 

[Sector 7G]

He was questioning his pace, long kicking and endurance. Nothing wrong with any of them after shaking off some rust.

He's been handy most weeks, and the only players who have looked consistently better than him in midfield are all in his salary bracket save for Ed Curnow. No one's debating that we haven't got our money's worth, but save for last year's shoulder injury, we got exactly what we paid for.

You certainly mark White harder than you do Daisy.

We paid to get something like the 25 possessions a game Daisy produced in 2010/2011. Kerridge and Wright have both produced more this season in the midfield as Daisy barely runs through the midfield. This highlights a key area our team is lacking and Daisy doesn't add to it.

 

[Jimmae]

You certainly mark White harder than you do Daisy.

We paid to get something like the 25 possessions a game Daisy produced in 2010/2011. Kerridge and Wright have both produced more this season in the midfield as Daisy barely runs through the midfield. This highlights a key area our team is lacking and Daisy doesn't add to it.

Few of our players get from arc to arc as well as Daisy, and almost none of them delivery the footy or threaten to score the way he does. He's not a great stoppage midfielder, but he excels at every other aspect, which is what makes him valuable.

The fact that we can drop him in virtually any role you can ask of a small or medium player and that he will not just perform but regularly excel, shows you his quality. He's got more about him than White, always has, but the comparison is hardly direct given White is essentially a short KPP.

Both put their body on the line in aerial contests, and both try their guts out, but Daisy is vastly more capable in attacking roles. If he was on $550-600k, no one would say boo, and in truth he's not far above (pretty sure the $700k figure is complete crap, more like $650k).

EDIT: Typo on salary estimate

 

[Sector 7G]

Few of our players get from arc to arc as well as Daisy, and almost none of them delivery the footy or threaten to score the way he does. He's not a great stoppage midfielder, but he excels at every other aspect, which is what makes him valuable.

The fact that we can drop him in virtually any role you can ask of a small or medium player and that he will not just perform but regularly excel, shows you his quality. He's got more about him than White, always has, but the comparison is hardly direct given White is essentially a short KPP.

Both put their body on the line in aerial contests, and both try their guts out, but Daisy is vastly more capable in attacking roles. If he was on $550-600k, no one would say boo, and in truth he's not far above (pretty sure the $700k figure is complete crap, more like $600k).

The reference to White was not as a direct comparison but how people have players they rate and player they don't.

I don't rate Daisy's disposal (especially his kicking which never really had any penetration) or running ability as being anything better than adequate. At 29 he is not bringing anything to the side that will take us forward. The team has looked so much better in the last 2 weeks without the dead wood in the side.

 

[Jimmae]

The reference to White was not as a direct comparison but how people have players they rate and player they don't.

I don't rate Daisy's disposal (especially his kicking which never really had any penetration) or running ability as being anything better than adequate. At 29 he is not bringing anything to the side that will take us forward. The team has looked so much better in the last 2 weeks without the dead wood in the side.

Pretty sure that had almost everything to do with Everitt and Walker up forward than it did Daisy. Don't lump them all together just because of their age group.