Autopsy Roast & toast vs Saints, changes for Cotchin’s final home game

[Muddiemoose]

Not sure what i am incorrect on. We played 1 Key position marking forward in 2017, surrounded by pressure tackling players to create the chaos. Sure Caddy & Gerogie got more marks - that the beauty of "chaos" - it gives you more chances to get uncontested marks due to turnovers etc.

Caddy took 92 marks - 81 of which were uncontested.

Georgie took 74 marks, 66 of which were uncontested.

If you are taking 90% of your marks uncontested, then you cant really claim they are "marking forwards"

There is no reason that Castagna should be taking more marks than a guy like Bolton, outside of "poor football"

Has the club even tried to play a mid-sized marking forward in the Caddy role? Cumberland could have been playing it all year, but they didn't

A mark that is taken out on a lead is still credited as uncontested so contested v uncontested marks dosent really mean a huge amount when discussing him as a marking target… he absolutely was a target when we kicked into 50

We also tried multiple players to be a medium sized marking target Cumbo was just that but his form never really warranted repeat selection (kicked zero set shot goals for the year), Pickett tried but just wasn’t very good and now Bauer

Also tried Miller and Ryan with neither really showing a huge amount of consistency either

 

[GoTigers2015]

Jacob Bauer looks like a long-term Jack replacement, He has impressed me with his ball use and agility, but needs a couple of preseasons to work on his contested marking.

Bradtke looks a good country footballer. We will need to target another KPF so hopefully one slides. Don't think Archer Reid will slide to our second round pick unfortunately.

 

[Hoos]

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN
Judson Clarke	Shoulder	Season
Mate Colina	Back	5-10 weeks
Josh Gibcus	Hamstring	Season
Jacob Hopper	Concussion	1-2 weeks
Tom Lynch	Foot	Season
Ben Miller	Concussion	1-2 weeks
Daniel Rioli	Ankle	Test
Kaleb Smith	Ankle	Season

Why is Colina listed as 5-10 when our season is over in 2 weeks, lol.

 

[Groupie_]

Why is Colina listed as 5-10 when our season is over in 2 weeks, lol.

big sexy is gonna snap his achilles when meehan gets him out running for the first time

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Why is Colina listed as 5-10 when our season is over in 2 weeks, lol.

left to live.

 

[Hoos]

big sexy is gonna snap his achilles when meehan gets him out running for the first time

Gibcus will break his wrist first week of pre-season and miss the entire year.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Gibcus will break his wrist first week of pre-season and miss the entire year.

wont be a break, it’ll be something simpler like….


Gibcus getting a splinter and goes to see meehan


meehan takes a look, but doesn’t understand what Gibbo is banging on about because of his slurred speech


tells Gibcus to harden the * up and go get a tan because his skin is so pale and sends him off to Terry”s solarium

Nek minnit

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN

Josh Gibcus	septicaemia	2 - 48611 weeks
Mate Colina	Back	5-67 weeks

 

[Vassp]

I think you are a little bit confused on the difference between the roles of inside and outside Mids

Inside Mids generally don’t break the game open, that’s the runners on the outsides job to do
Of course there are exceptions but we are talking about probably 5 players in the entire league… we already have one in Bolton

That’s like expecting a rebounding half back to play a lockdown role

Tarantos job as an inside mid is to win us first use, trystop the opponents to get a clearance and generate clearances for us

He absolutely does that he is leading the club for

Contested possies
Total clearance
Centre clearance
Stoppage clearance
Tackles

Top 3 for
Meters gained
Score involvements

If you think that he is the issue with our current side I really don’t know what to tell you

The way you are describing the game is as if every scoring chain either way is based off a stoppage when that is far from the case

Oh man, I don't think we are going to agree, stick to your stats, and ill stick to my knowledge of the game.
If you want an insight into my thoughts watch the replays AND PAY ATTENTION to what he does.
How he moves, etc, its all there.

Whats the point of winning first use when you cant make the players around you better? THINK.

We are on the bottom half of the ladder for a few reasons.

 

[shaky]

What forwards?
A 35 year old key position forward is the only genuine marking target in our forward line

Throw in a handful of kids and a depth utility tall the fact that we are ranked 7th among other clubs for marks inside 50 and 6th for efficiency is actually pretty impressive

It’s the amount of times the ball actually makes it that far that’s the issue and that is due to our outside runners and wings failing to capitulate on the amount of rebound 50s we get (we are ranked number 1 in the comp for winning the ball in our back half)

The numbers speak for themselves, centre clearances we are above ave, stoppage clearances we are par

However we are among the worst team in the comp for marks so it shows we aren’t spreading enough to gain field position

Once again wingers and outside Mids

So our inside Mids aren’t the issue it’s the outside runners and wings

And perhaps that we can’t hit a target. No good spreading to become a target when they don’t hit you or at least put it to advantage.
Watching the last two weeks, probably the last three and more, the opposition nail target after target. Our backline does a pretty good job stopping the relentless entries and cause a turn over only for one of our players to turn it over up the field or bomb it mindlessly into the forward 50 for an interception.

 

[shaky]

Yeah it’s still very much a concern that when we have that 1 player really start to dominate against us we lack the ability to shut it down or even at least slow it down

The solution that comes to mind is of course running a hard tag but I don’t even know if that’s worth to have a dedicated tagger in the side because the reality is most weeks they won’t be needed

Sure it’s handy to have every couple of weeks against a Bont or Neale but dunno if it’s worth changing the entire midfield mix just to have one either especially if it risks the overall effectiveness of the midfield unit every other week

One thing to note re the Bont example is that in round 4 when we only lost to the dogs by 5 points although the Bont played alright he didn’t dominate, but in that game we had Hopper go head to head with him and have a big impact on the game… and in the dogs game the other week Hopper went down with the concussion so maybe because Hopper went down we didn’t have a decent match up for him either

Don’t talk Hopper up, he is the main reason we are going to be down the bottom of the ladder for the next 8-10 years.

 

[RJK Tiger]

A mark that is taken out on a lead is still credited as uncontested so contested v uncontested marks dosent really mean a huge amount when discussing him as a marking target… he absolutely was a target when we kicked into 50

We also tried multiple players to be a medium sized marking target Cumbo was just that but his form never really warranted repeat selection (kicked zero set shot goals for the year), Pickett tried but just wasn’t very good and now Bauer

Also tried Miller and Ryan with neither really showing a huge amount of consistency either

Maybe then we shouldn;t have moved on Chol and CCJ then used 2 years of picks to get 2 players that played the same position, that wasn't what either of those guys did.

The club did SFA to deal with the issue that was glaring of replacing those blokes. Went with some untried kids with rookie picks. I could see that lack of mature depth was going to kill us if only 1 of Jack or Tom went down, which is why i was open to Levi Casboult getting a very cheap deal as a quality, ready-made back up. I got heckled a lot over that suggestion. Casboult has kicked 57 goals in under 2 seasons since i said that. Not bad. My attitude with that was, if we are serious about going hard for another flag in 2022, we will definitely need a mature age back-up to be cover for 1 of Jack or Tom, as one will definitely get injured at some point & Levi for all this flaws, has absolute elite hands, and can break packs. He was far far cheaper than Tarrant & I thought we needed him more - but was ok with getting both IF the club was serious about trying to win a flag. We needed depth on both ends to be real.

We aren't in this situation because by accident or bad luck - we have no players in those positions as we have completely ignored the need. Tom Lynch or Jack getting injured was always going to happen, they are old. If the club was expecting Ryan or Bauer to fill the gap, then they must have been getting passively stoned from Dimma's Crafty blazing some Maali Sky

 

[shaky]

We had one marking forward in 2017 - the difference was we made a structure that worked with what we had VS the shitshow of whatever you call what we have this year.

not sure if i would say its just been kids down there either. Jack, Dusty, Bolton, Baker -been getting down there. The 2017 forwardline was far younger also.


Here's an idea if you only have 1 marking forward - play some speed down there.... Maybe go with a combination of Jack, Bolton, Dan Rioli, MRJ, Baker (rotating), Coulthard Clarke, Cumberland - load up on speed and creative players and try that for a bit.

Then down back, maybe try Balta, Young Grimes, Vlaustin, Short, Baker, Broad, Mansell, Trezive.



B: Baker Balta Broad
HB Vlaustin Young Short
C: Pickett Taranto Banks
HF: D.Rioli Dusty Boton
F: MRJ Riewoldt, Cumberland/Bauer
C: Toby Hopper Prestia

Bench:from Graham. Mansell. Ross. Dow. Miller. Soldo/Ryan

I think you are forgetting in 17 we played Caddy as a second forward, crash packs and compete and coming into finals Townsend came in as that third option to crash bash and kill campaigners.
Our forward line hold no fear ATM with Lynch out. They can double and triple team Jack and not have any fear of other players hurting them either physically or on the scoreboard.

 

[RJK Tiger]

I think you are forgetting in 17 we played Caddy as a second forward, crash packs and compete and coming into finals Townsend came in as that third option to crash bash and kill campaigners.
Our forward line hold no fear ATM with Lynch out. They can double and triple team Jack and not have any fear of other players hurting them either physically or on the scoreboard.

I remember it clearly. That was part of the chaos. We had battering rams in Caddy, Townsend & Graham with Castagna, Rioli & Butler zipping around, all revolving around Jack.

It was a system, which is my point. They didnt win on talent, they won on system and commitment to it. We didnt win the flag on contested marking etc

 

[shaky]

I remember it clearly. That was part of the chaos. We had battering rams in Caddy, Townsend & Graham with Castagna, Rioli & Butler zipping around, all revolving around Jack.

It was a system, which is my point. They didnt win on talent, they won on system and commitment to it. We didnt win the flag on contested marking etc

I suppose I’m saying we don’t have the players for that system now. Jack is 6 years older and cannot do what he did then(to that level at least).
We have some of the smaller forwards but no other targets at them moment.
The VFL options have either been injured or not doing enough to force their way in and hell, they wouldn’t have to do much to demand a game in our forward line!

 

[Noidnadroj]

Lets do the math on the Grimes re-signing

-He extended on May 10th for another year, despite pretty poor form. At the time i called it the stupidest deision i had ever seen on the basis that no=one was at all interested in him, his form had been poor & resigning him in May VS End of Season was a huge risk as if he did a knee, his career was effectively over and we still would have had to pay him a few hundred k.

But the dates alone, is another nail in the "Saint Dimma" fallacy.

-on May 25th, Dimma resigned, stating that he had already decided to resign "3 weeks earlier", which puts that time frame at May 4th

Meaning, the club re-signed Dylan a few days after Dimma had already decided to move on. Did the club know Dimma was moving on?
Was Dimma the main driving force behind that deicions ? Was he "fixing up his mates:" before he left the office? sure comes across that way to me

Just another example of Dimma being too close to his "boys" and failing to put the club ahead of them and his own legacy & "his boys" self interest


When you look back at those dates above, it really makes me wonder how these decisions were being made. It's transparent as * that Dimma has been more interested in rewarding the boys who made him an icon Vs caring about the best longterm interest of the RFC

I’m not sure you have any idea of how list management works. There’s a team of people analysing the list all day every day - one of those people is not the senior coach. They might have input into the type of player the team needs and the like, but I can’t think you honestly believe Dimma went to Blair Hartley (who is very experienced and has put together a dynasty winning list) and applied pressure to re-sign Dylan Grimes. And Hartley said “Sure… I don’t think he’s got another year in him, but I’ll take your advice and give him a charity contract”.

C’mon … let’s keep discussion in the real world.

This goes the same for TT and Hopper. All this talk of Dimma desperately going to the well again and convincing the club to trade for 2 x inside mids is BS. Blind Freddy could see that with Martin playing less midfield and Cotchin/Prestia about to retire and RCD being a bust as a big bodied mid we desperately needed beefing up that area. You can argue on whether it was a mistake or we gave away too much etc… that’s fine. But to think it wasn’t discussed and heartily approved by everyone within the list management team for the now and the future is just wrong.


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[Noidnadroj]

If we didn't trade for Hopper we could have gone in for Bowes last Year and picked up GC's pick 7 instead.

And ultimately we only went for Hopper because we didn't draft for need the previous year and get Hobbs. Imagine how different things would look if we'd drafted Hobbs and Van Rooyen, then had GC's pick 7 last year and our first pick this year?

We could have done all that and still got Taranto but instead we drafted 2 defenders we don't really need because we don't draft for need, but then this impacts what you have to pay for needs in a trade, I don't get it.

Imagine we got Fyfe, Cripps, Curnow and Dangerfield when we had the chance ….


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[wegetpumped]

I’m not sure you have any idea of how list management works. There’s a team of people analysing the list all day every day - one of those people is not the senior coach. They might have input into the type of player the team needs and the like, but I can’t think you honestly believe Dimma went to Blair Hartley (who is very experienced and has put together a dynasty winning list) and applied pressure to re-sign Dylan Grimes. And Hartley said “Sure… I don’t think he’s got another year in him, but I’ll take your advice and give him a charity contract”.

C’mon … let’s keep discussion in the real world.

This goes the same for TT and Hopper. All this talk of Dimma desperately going to the well again and convincing the club to trade for 2 x inside mids is BS. Blind Freddy could see that with Martin playing less midfield and Cotchin/Prestia about to retire and RCD being a bust as a big bodied mid we desperately needed beefing up that area. You can argue on whether it was a mistake or we gave away too much etc… that’s fine. But to think it wasn’t discussed and heartily approved by everyone within the list management team for the now and the future is just wrong.


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Hummm coaches have more of a say in recruitment than you think otherwise why bother sitting at the table with others on trade nights?
The coach we need mids and forward recruiters ok we have scouted this one and that one and maybe that one! Coach get this 2. That's how most systems work. But after witnessing what we require for new coach anything is possible lol

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Don’t talk Hopper up, he is the main reason we are going to be down the bottom of the ladder for the next 8-10 years.

Mate this is the exact sort of thing everyone was saying when we took Prestia. That worked out alright from memory. Give the bloke more than a dozen odd injury interrupted games before you maroon the campaigner.
We miss a couple of shots at snagging a good young player. Its not going to be the death of us.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

PACK THE ******* G!! A moment not to be missed & who knows with Dusty


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[AstuteTiger]

Some were thinking he may also play the last round at the AO but RD22 will be his last. I urge all of the tiger army to get to the G and cheer on one of the true greats of Richmond FC

– Glenn McFarlane
Triple premiership captain Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

34

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

is set to play his 306th – and final game – for Richmond on Saturday afternoon with the Tiger Army to be given one last chance to publicly farewell one of their favourite sons.

It is understood Cotchin, 33, will play one last match in yellow and black, against North Melbourne at the MCG, and won’t travel to Adelaide for the final round clash against Port Adelaide in Round 24.

 

[shaky]

Mate this is the exact sort of thing everyone was saying when we took Prestia. That worked out alright from memory. Give the bloke more than a dozen odd injury interrupted games before you maroon the campaigner.
We miss a couple of shots at snagging a good young player. Its not going to be the death of us.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.
Never really watched him enough at GWS to make any judgement, but in his interrupted year for us I have seen bit of what he could be.
He’s one of those players that creates time to make the right decision, steps evades before disposal.
Perhaps his disposal lacks a bit, but I wonder if that is part of not playing constantly through the year also.

 

[tony__montana]

I’m not sure you have any idea of how list management works. There’s a team of people analysing the list all day every day - one of those people is not the senior coach. They might have input into the type of player the team needs and the like, but I can’t think you honestly believe Dimma went to Blair Hartley (who is very experienced and has put together a dynasty winning list) and applied pressure to re-sign Dylan Grimes. And Hartley said “Sure… I don’t think he’s got another year in him, but I’ll take your advice and give him a charity contract”.

C’mon … let’s keep discussion in the real world.

This goes the same for TT and Hopper. All this talk of Dimma desperately going to the well again and convincing the club to trade for 2 x inside mids is BS. Blind Freddy could see that with Martin playing less midfield and Cotchin/Prestia about to retire and RCD being a bust as a big bodied mid we desperately needed beefing up that area. You can argue on whether it was a mistake or we gave away too much etc… that’s fine. But to think it wasn’t discussed and heartily approved by everyone within the list management team for the now and the future is just wrong.


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Yep its a group decision, its not all on the coach or list manager - although coach does very much have a say in list management decisions

 

[tugga]

No reason why we can't get 70,000 this week.

 

[Groupie_]

No reason why we can't get 70,000 this week.

we dont even know if its their last game yet

could both go to adelaide

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Move it to marvel, get that cousins final game type atmosphere under the roof


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