Preview Round 11 - Essendon Bombers Vs The West Coast -Saturday May 27th 7:30 at Optus Stadium

[Kyptastic]

This tweet covers Brad Scott’s record as North Melbourne Coach when playing teams six ladder positions or more below. Helps calm the nerves somewhat

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Stats informing evidence yayyyy!

 

[Lore]

In terms of a one-ruck vs two-ruck setup:

We omitted Flip in R3 against the Saints, then subbed Jones off for Hind and sent Langford forward, meaning Weideman was the only tall forward after that point and also had to be back up ruck.

We’ve also subbed Flip off twice, against Geelong and Richmond. In both those games Weideman was our only tall forward, and was also the back up ruck after Flip was subbed (probably meaning that Weideman took the ruck taps in the forward line and Draper did the rest for that part of those games).

It’s probably enough of a sample size for them to have a decent idea of what a lack of talls does to the game plan and structure… so it could just be match ups.

If they want to try one-ruck again, then in terms of the sub:

Was looking at it a bit more last night and I wouldn't be half surprised if D'Ambrosio is the sub. If that happens, I'd expect Langford to play back for some portion of the game, then D'Ambrosio would come in, Langford swings forward and Weideman does more ruck towards the end of the game.

With D'Ambrosio back you're really rolling the dice on stemming the tide of West Coast's inside 50s, but you're also adding so much attacking ability off half back right when the opposition tires, while adding a marking target to the forward line, that it probably does more good than harm.

 

[Squeaky]

I just can't help having a bad feeling about this game.

Me too.
Good ins for this mob.
And if we revert back to the one ruck plan that we know doesn't work...

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Why are people whining about the solo ruck?
Is it just because Bryan isn't playing? I would like him in too.
I like speed and endurance on a bigger ground though.

 

[dank420_]

Why are people whining about the solo ruck?

Because Wright isn't back yet.

 

[supportyourteam]

Toyed with going over. Go Dons,

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Because Wright isn't back yet.

and Draper should smash his opponent.

 

[Lore]

Why are people whining about the solo ruck?

Because we have one forward over 192cm, and without a second ruck that same forward is going to be chopping out so Draper can have a break. Meaning there will be times in the game when the tallest bloke in the forward line is under 6'4. If you thought we had a problem with marking before, well Durham better grow wings this week.

 

[dank420_]

and Draper should smash his opponent.

It's not about that, it's more helping the forwardline have some height. The plan worked very well against the dees.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Because we have one forward over 192cm, and without a second ruck that same forward is going to be chopping out so Draper can have a break. Meaning there will be times in the game when the tallest bloke in the forward line is under 6'4. If you thought we had a problem with marking before, well Durham better grow wings this week.

Sometimes you just have to back your talented ruckman to have a good game solo against a poor side.
A lot of other teams do it, right? I think we win this game on transition, they're so poor going into their forward line.

 

[Squeaky]

and Draper should smash his opponent.

We were supposed to have ruck domination over the Pies too - how did that work out? Outplayed by supposedly inferior rucks.
The guys play better when there are two of them - I don't care if they went with Drapes/Flip (which was becoming increasingly hard to justify) or Drapes/Bryan - but IMO Draper's better games are when he isn't solo ruck.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

We were supposed to have ruck domination over the Pies too - how did that work out? Outplayed by supposedly inferior rucks.
The guys play better when there are two of them - I don't care if they went with Drapes/Flip (which was becoming increasingly hard to justify) or Drapes/Bryan - but IMO Draper's better games are when he isn't solo ruck.

You're talking about the Pies, who are the best team in the league, vs. West Coast who are the worst though.
In saying that, on paper the Eagles actually look okay - I was just looking at their team list.

 

[Lore]

Sometimes you just have to back your talented ruckman to have a good game solo against a poor side.
A lot of other teams do it, right?

Did you miss like 90% of my post

Two of our three worst losses this year came when Draper was solo ruck.


When Draper is solo ruck, Weideman is solo tall forward. Hence lose.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Did you miss like 90% of my post

Two of our three worst losses this year came when Draper was solo ruck.


When Draper is solo ruck, Weideman is solo tall forward. Hence lose.

I didn't see your original one sorry. I tend to work from the past post backwards until something takes my eye.
You've made good points re: Saints and Geelong, but they're good teams.
I trust Brad Scott to have us fired up, and structurally sound, I get that the two ruck thing has won us some games.
But for the first time since pre-saga, I believe our coaching staff is smarter than us randbags on a public forum.

 

[Ati Tude]

If you aren't going to play Bryan in this game, the only way he likely to play is if Draper is injured. I don't get it. The two ruck thing has worked for us this year and there are only a few games until 2MP is back. Why wouldn't you play Bryan this week and see what he has got? And if you don't play Bryan, then why not play Voss and see what he has got. Both have done enough for a while now to get an opportunity. Hard for Voss given our VFL side generally struggles so doesn't get as good opportunities to kick bags of goals but still does ok.

Hopefully this is all a bit of a ruse and Bryan does come into the 22.

 

[Lore]

I didn't see your original one sorry. I tend to work from the past post backwards until something takes my eye.
You've made good points re: Saints and Geelong, but they're good teams.

I wasn't meaning that you should scroll back through the whole thread, just read the post you quoted.

What we're talking about is the FORWARD LINE. Not the ruck.

Having two rucks makes the ruck division like 20% better. You're right that we probably don't need that extra 20% against West Coast.

But having two tall forwards makes the forward line 80% better. If Flip comes out and Bryan doesn't come in (he might be the sub), then we're losing that 80%. We then have to find some different options, but the cupboard is pretty bare.

I trust Brad Scott to have us fired up, and structurally sound, I get that the two ruck thing has won us some games.

But for the first time since pre-saga, I believe our coaching staff is smarter than us randbags on a public forum.

I agree, I generally trust the coaches to make the right decision, especially this group of coaches who so far seem to be making sense.

We don't know what decision the coaches have made yet though... so we speculate.

The question we have at the moment is: Who is the sub?

 

[mike ross]

I just can't help having a bad feeling about this game.

Agree. They do have some handy inclusions as well. I'm hoping they will be underdone.

 

[doug85]

I reckon this is a bit of a danger game. Eagles getting a bit of experience back. I reckon we win, but not a lay down misere.

 

[Lore]

If you aren't going to play Bryan in this game, the only way he likely to play is if Draper is injured. I don't get it. The two ruck thing has worked for us this year and there are only a few games until 2MP is back. Why wouldn't you play Bryan this week and see what he has got? And if you don't play Bryan, then why not play Voss and see what he has got. Both have done enough for a while now to get an opportunity. Hard for Voss given our VFL side generally struggles so doesn't get as good opportunities to kick bags of goals but still does ok.

Hopefully this is all a bit of a ruse and Bryan does come into the 22.

Bryan has kicked 0.2 in the five VFL games he's played this year put together. He might be the best ruckman in the VFL but if he can't chop out in the forward line then maybe he isn't the man to fill in for 2MP.

The coaches would know that better than we do, and in reality the best way for him to develop some of that is probably for him to play forward in the VFL while Flip holds down the VFL ruck (cue hysteria).

 

[The Devils Advocate]

The coaches would know that better than we do, and in reality the best way for him to develop some of that is probably for him to play forward in the VFL while Flip holds down the VFL ruck (cue hysteria).

100% agree with this.
Needs this string in his bow to develop as a footballer.

 

[Ati Tude]

Bryan has kicked 0.2 in the five VFL games he's played this year put together. He might be the best ruckman in the VFL but if he can't chop out in the forward line then maybe he isn't the man to fill in for 2MP.

The coaches would know that better than we do, and in reality the best way for him to develop some of that is probably for him to play forward in the VFL while Flip holds down the VFL ruck (cue hysteria).

Yeah, but it isn't like Phillips has been kicking goals anyway. Play Draper a bit more forward. Is simply perfect opportunity to see what Bryan can give us. He literally can't do worse than Phillips has been of late.

And I completely disagree that the coaches know any better than any of us here

 

[Squeaky]

You're talking about the Pies, who are the best team in the league, vs. West Coast who are the worst though.
In saying that, on paper the Eagles actually look okay - I was just looking at their team list.

Yeah - they have a couple of good ones back (of course)
Hence the worry

 

[Squeaky]

I wasn't meaning that you should scroll back through the whole thread, just read the post you quoted.

What we're talking about is the FORWARD LINE. Not the ruck.

Having two rucks makes the ruck division like 20% better. You're right that we probably don't need that extra 20% against West Coast.

But having two tall forwards makes the forward line 80% better. If Flip comes out and Bryan doesn't come in (he might be the sub), then we're losing that 80%. We then have to find some different options, but the cupboard is pretty bare.

THIS!

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Anyone got any stats on how often we lose to 18th on the ladder?