Preview Round 2 team: Hawthorn vs Melbourne, MCG, Sun 4.40pm

[Henry Jr]

Re: Team round 2

Hodge trained today with no problems.

Reckon it will be

Out: Suckers, Whitex, Sewell
In: Goo, Ellis, Hodge

Twister, Birch and Ossie on notice

 

[Rumblah#16]

Re: Team round 2

Hodge trained today with no problems.

Reckon it will be

Out: Suckers, Whitex, Sewell
In: Goo, Ellis, Hodge

Twister, Birch and Ossie on notice

Good news.

 

[dermott]

Re: Team round 2

Melbournes forward line is twice as fast as our defence.

It is obviously part of our game plan to play any speedy defenders at Box Hill!

 

[wallyt99]

Re: Team round 2

If Clarko drops the youth I will be mightiy unimpressed and win lose or draw will not be happy.

Any news on Murphy?

 

[Hodges]

Re: Team round 2

Great to see Savage has not only kept his spot, but been promoted to the starting 18. Hopefully Hodgey is right to play by Sunday, really need him out there.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: Team round 2

Shiels has done absolutely nothing wrong and was far from our worst last week......Keep the youth Clarko.

Yep, Clarkson needs to stick with the youngsters, because they'll never develop if we drop them at every opportunity.

Savage, Shiels and Whitecross must stay in and around the best 22, or we're going nowhere.

That being said, the inclusions are that good that Whitecross and Shiels may get squeezed out due to a more seasoned player being available.

Will not surprise me if Hodge or Sewell are a late withdrawal.

 

[That's deliberate]

im tipping there will 1 change if any...

Ellis for Lewis ...

 

[Roger Rogerson]

We need to invest some faith in Shiels - hard runner with some speed and still under utilised by his teammates with his run into space. Get him to the 50 game mark and he will be a player.

Need more from Burgoyne. He is pretty lazy when the opposition has the ball. He is another one of our mids who can't break the lines with hard running. Still a big imbalance in our midfield. While he is a genius at winning the ball at clearances, having him in the side doesn't address us getting our pants pulled down on the spread.

Thought Youngy tried his guts out last week and needs more support. Really hope Smith shows some form at Box Hill. Savage looked excellent.

Changa is over the hill. Lost his zip. Even more reason Shiels has to keep playing.

Cyril is already doing too much in our midfield. Worry about his hamstrings bigtime. We need to look after his workload very very carefully.

What are the chances of Roughy and Buddy winning one on one contests as key forwards? That is why our forward line doesn't work because they used to take contested marks (and lead) but now neither can take a mark above their heads in a one on one to save themselves plus we have no crumbers. We name 2 key forwards each week but neither plays like one. Our forward line is still impotent.

Hard to go into this game with any confidence.

 

[xellis]

We need to invest some faith in Shiels - hard runner with some speed and still under utilised by his teammates with his run into space. Get him to the 50 game mark and he will be a player.

Need more from Burgoyne. He is pretty lazy when the opposition has the ball. He is another one of our mids who can't break the lines with hard running. Still a big imbalance in our midfield. While he is a genius at winning the ball at clearances, having him in the side doesn't address us getting our pants pulled down on the spread.

Thought Youngy tried his guts out last week and needs more support. Really hope Smith shows some form at Box Hill. Savage looked excellent.

Changa is over the hill. Lost his zip. Even more reason Shiels has to keep playing.

Cyril is already doing too much in our midfield. Worry about his hamstrings bigtime. We need to look after his workload very very carefully.

What are the chances of Roughy and Buddy winning one on one contests as key forwards? That is why our forward line doesn't work because they used to take contested marks (and lead) but now neither can take a mark above their heads in a one on one to save themselves plus we have no crumbers. We name 2 key forwards each week but neither plays like one. Our forward line is still impotent.

Hard to go into this game with any confidence.

You've left out Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell and Hodge. Better have a crack at them too

 

[Hawker_Ant]

Doubt the team will line up as listed. Not at all sure Hodge will play. Goo and X-man had to come back after dominating at BHH and proving they are a cut above VFL. Surprised they were dropped in the first place.

WhiteX may make it to the bench. Didn't do much wrong last week picking up a dozen possies in his one quarter in a flagging team. Guerra may be sub? Doesn't have a lot of pace but that shouldn't matter so much later in the game and he can play forward and back.

Maybe Rioli and Lewis need to be rotated through the midfield / forward line. Give some other midfielders a chance to 'rest' up forward. It's a hard call with forwards being asked to put so much effort into being defensive and chasing backmen, but with three on the bench there needs to be some way to find some gasping room other than the sidelines.

Getting worried about Changa since he's been asked to be a tagger. Hasn't been providing much of an offensive option. I think much the same about Louie and Ozzie. All need to help with goal-scoring instead of concentrating so much on defensive work.

 

[illnino]

Hard to go into this game with any confidence.

I agree with your assessments of all things footy more often than not RR, but I can't help but think (and I may be wrong) that some emotion has crept into your assessment this time around. Hard not to let that happen lately mate, but stick with us for the next few weeks...Reckon things will be looking a lot better come late Sunday.

As for some of your points;

1. Agree about the youngsters. Happy to see Savage, Shiels and Whitecross all receive 10+ games this year. Despite not being convinced he'll make it, I'd also like to see Suckers stay in the team for a few more weeks as others have said. See once and for all if this guy has what it takes. 4 or so years on the list with minimal injuries (compared to Max, Dowler, Thorp etc.) is surely long enough for Clarko and co. to decide on his future with the club.

2. Love Youngy. If I was to find a deficiency in his game it may be that he sometimes seems to go missing for short periods of play. Not really a knock on the guy as I reckon he has been great. More of those goals from 70 meters out please sir

3. Burgers is going OK I think. Just working his way into things nicely this year and I have high hopes for him. Is still deceivably quick(ish), we just haven't seen too much of it lately for one reason or another.

4. Haven't been too impressed with Changa for a while now. Undecided on whether he is actually "over the hill" or not, though I'm leaning towards 'not'. Just needs to find some form and get back to what he is best at (so long as Clarko and the game plan allow this to happen?) and he's certainly not alone there (Ozzie, Birch, Ellis and a few others would also be disappointed with their output lately IMO).

5. Haven't really taken notice of how much time Cyril is spending in the midfield lately. Definitely agree that we need to look after him, we don't want this turning into Hooper MKII. Shame though, as the kid is brilliant and is exactly what our one-paced midfield needs.

6. I think Rough is still pretty good at the overhead mark myself RR (Can't understand the calls for him to be dropped at all), but I think everyone agrees on Buddy. That shoulder and thumb surgery may have something to do with it I suspect. Hoping he can improve this aspect of his game and chances are, he won't get any worse in this area and should only improve (back to 08 standards one day hopefully).

No Hooper, and even Peterson to an extent, I thought would have hurt our forward line more than it has actually. No denying the forward line is not functioning as well as it should be at the moment, but I'm not so sure this can be directly attributed to our lack of crumbers really. Awful entries into our 50 along with missed tackles and some ordinary decision making has more to do with it IMO. It was also way too easy for Adelaide to get out the back door in congested situations in our forward line on too many occasions last week which has to do with our structures and game plan, as well as discipline (and a few missed tackles as I mentioned before).

Personally, I was impressed with a lot of what I saw last week and I think it holds us in good stead for the upcoming Dees game. This is certainly not directed at you RR, like I said, I tend to agree with you more often than not, but I think the biggest concern is how much some posters have over-analysed one solitary game of footy. Now some will say that they are judging on the last 2 years and not just last week's game, but if we shouldn't be judging players on their stellar '08 year as some poster's suggest (and rightfully so IMO), then why is it OK to judge them on their lesser '09 or '10 years? For mine, the past is the past and we should judge our boys on this season alone, preferably in a few weeks time when we have really had a good chance of gauging our players' form lines and the coaching panel's tactics more accurately.

Regardless of who runs out for us this Sunday, I'm more inclined to think we should come away with the 4 pts than not.

Btw RR, again I may be mistaken, but weren't you a little skeptical of just how much we'd get from Gibbo? My man is flying lately and I hope your coming around to him mate. Reckon Bruce may turn a few heads in a few weeks time when he settles in properly too.

 

[WillowSF]

Disappointed not to see Puopolo in the side. We need speed.

 

[Milestone]

Soon we'll be hearing for Leon Cameron's head on the chopping block like JB last year

 

[bbeast]

from what i saw last week changa looked out of sorts ...hope game hasnt passed him by might be worth a forward pocket role
and seriously i love birchall but needs to at least look like he is busting a gut now and then ffs

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

X is in for sure Hodge is still NQR and there must be a cloud over Sewell.

Bruce does not deserve his spot, he can provide long run but his kicking is never going to help us win a final - so why play him.

 

[Rev08]

Soon we'll be hearing for Leon Cameron's head on the chopping block like JB last year

Surely his time is up. He's had a whole pre-season and one home and away game and STILL our forward line isn't functioning.

If he was any good that forward line would have kicked 20+ goals last week...

 

[Mitchemx]

I'd be pretty pissed if Suckling or Shiels were omitted to make way for the same old slow, under performing footballers.

I'd bring Hodge in for Osborne who did nothing round one. Maybe Ellis in for Whitecross as he was the sub last week and performed poorly when he was brought on.

Would much rather see Pup and Cheney in the side instead of Goo and Ellis.

 

[dipper86]

Whitcross, Savage Shiels......all must remain in the side. All 3 can run all day and all provide some zip in what is a one paced Hawthorn side.

2 other major concerns that have me very worried and it happens to be at both ends of the ground...... Melbourne has an extremely quick forward line, Our defenders are going to get run of their feet.

2nd is our forward line, and its ability to lock the ball in, we don't have a defensive forward that provides zip and pressure, Rioli will have stints on ball and he cant do it all game, the workload for Rioli is going to be massive.

Campball Brown provided that forward pressure last year, minus the zip, maybe we could have brought in Pup, for just that sole role, he's both hard and quick.

For the past couple of years the ball has been swept out of our forward line with ease, its really starting to get under my skin.......it provides extra pressure on our midfiielders and our defenders, the easy goals of last week all resulted from the ball being cleared with run and long kicking which started deep in our forward line.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

I think the biggest concern is how much some posters have over-analysed one solitary game of footy. Now some will say that they are judging on the last 2 years and not just last week's game, but if we shouldn't be judging players on their stellar '08 year as some poster's suggest (and rightfully so IMO), then why is it OK to judge them on their lesser '09 or '10 years?

In point form.

1. It is most frustrating becuase each club only has a small periods of a time at winnning premierships.

2. With Players and coachs of their skill we are wasting goldens opportunity's.

3. A lot of members made the allowance of 2009 and attributed it to 2008 and the ramifications of our young team winning the 2008 premiership earlier than expected!

4. So it is good enough to ride of 2009 on the back of 2008.... So simply 2010 and 2011 is fair game.

5. The boys have shown what they are capable of doing when theyre switched on and working as a team. There is obviously a big part of the puzzle missing as we are performing badly. It is Clarkos and his assistants at the club (Assisants, Doc's, Physio ect) job to annylise and find that missing link. If they cant do that then as it goes "all good things must come to an end" and changes must be made.

6. If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem.

Lastly a qoutation i here being used alot via the media and footy shows "YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST GAME"!!

 

[dipper86]

. Maybe Ellis in for Whitecross as he was the sub last week and performed poorly when he was brought on.

Not sure if I agree with that statement, Whitcross was no world beater in the last, he had if my memory serves me correct, 5 or 6 disposals in the last, he had more than half our list had in the last.

 

[Mitchemx]

Not sure if I agree with that statement, Whitcross was no world beater in the last, he had if my memory serves me correct, 5 or 6 disposals in the last, he had more than half our list had in the last.

Not sure on his clanger stats but i remember him committing at least 2 poor turnovers. To be honest i don't rate him at all but i concede it must be tough to come on after 3 quarters and perform.

More to the point is that you can't really play him again this week after 1 quarter of footy last week.

 

[markr]

Re: Team round 2

That being said, the inclusions are that good that Whitecross and Shiels may get squeezed out due to a more seasoned player being available.

One hard thing about team selection at the moment is that I'm not sure that our best 22 players makes up our best team (if that makes sense).

If I go through our list and rank it I probably don't end up with guys like Puopolo, Shiels, Whitecross even a guy like Smith in the 22. But with tactics the way they are sides are winning games with plenty of guys who I think aren't great footballers, but who have pace to create tackling pressure, and then to spread quickly was the ball clears a pack.

At some point some good players might have to be dropped for the dreaded "team balance". On paper Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne, Lewis, Bruce, Ellis etc are great players, unfortunately the way footy is played at the moment that might not be enough.

 

[Cynic]

Re: Team round 2

One hard thing about team selection at the moment is that I'm not sure that our best 22 players makes up our best team (if that makes sense).

If I go through our list and rank it I probably don't end up with guys like Puopolo, Shiels, Whitecross even a guy like Smith in the 22. But with tactics the way they are sides are winning games with plenty of guys who I think aren't great footballers, but who have pace to create tackling pressure, and then to spread quickly was the ball clears a pack.

At some point some good players might have to be dropped for the dreaded "team balance". On paper Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne, Lewis, Bruce, Ellis etc are great players, unfortunately the way footy is played at the moment that might not be enough.

Top post and I agree completely.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Re: Team round 2

At some point some good players might have to be dropped for the dreaded "team balance". On paper Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne, Lewis, Bruce, Ellis etc are great players, unfortunately the way footy is played at the moment that might not be enough.

The three underlined players are not "great" players. They are decent players who would be in the mix with other guys depending on form and week to week requirements. The other four guys are the only non-negotiables on that list of midfielders in my opinion.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Re: Team round 2

One hard thing about team selection at the moment is that I'm not sure that our best 22 players makes up our best team (if that makes sense).

If I go through our list and rank it I probably don't end up with guys like Puopolo, Shiels, Whitecross even a guy like Smith in the 22. But with tactics the way they are sides are winning games with plenty of guys who I think aren't great footballers, but who have pace to create tackling pressure, and then to spread quickly was the ball clears a pack.

At some point some good players might have to be dropped for the dreaded "team balance". On paper Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne, Lewis, Bruce, Ellis etc are great players, unfortunately the way footy is played at the moment that might not be enough.

I agree with you on ur team balance theory. The likes of Savage, Shiels, Pup and Cheney may not be the best skilled players but they bring that speed to the side and/or that grunt that every team needs that you don't get from someone like a Ellis or a Ladson.

Also agree with those who want the kids played, although nothing to me suggest WX deserves a place in the side. To win games against the good team you can't carry those who can't kick and lack the hardness at the ball, which someone like Cheney can do to make up for his questionable disposal.