Autopsy Round 22 - Derby Autopsy. If you find a positive, pick it up and all the day you’ll have good luck

[Truckosaurus]

Not going to be many people left at the club once we've got rid of all the players, medical, fitness, coaching, administrative staff and cleared the board out.
Just be a few tumblweeds blowing across Lathlain Oval.

Those tumbleweeds better make sure they've got their ankles strapped.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

With the late outs they'd have played him anyway but Jones looked gassed early and should have been back through WAFL. Match Committee need to learn that bringing a player back through the WAFL after a long injury break is not a sign you don't rate them but another step towards full fitness (as opposed to full health).

They haven’t learnt that in the last 5 plus years so it’s unlikely they’ll learn it all of a sudden.

He was only for a quarter but I see value in keeping Clark for another year or two. Certainly over most of the other delist candidates.

Made a couple of errors but seems to genuinely give a s**t. Seen that in him in a couple games earlier in the year too. Most importantly I saw him block for TK a couple of times at stoppages and even for Darling to make a lead on a forward 50 entry near the end. Selflessness and “giving a s**t” are two traits that the next Gen need to learn and we don’t have many that show it.

he also had more than nine possessions, and at least of four of those were clearances from the Centre, the Boundry, and in the Forward 50 in one quarter of play. That’s because they finally played him in his actual position for a change. Funny how that works.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I don't get the hate some have for SPS. Contributed more often than not this year. Keep him on as depth for sure.

 

[UseR2006]

They haven’t learnt that in the last 5 plus years so it’s unlikely they’ll learn it all of a sudden.

he also had more than nine possessions, and at least of four of those were clearances from the Centre, the Boundry, and in the Forward 50 in one quarter of play. That’s because they finally played him in his actual position for a change. Funny how that works.

Not sure how you have Clark with a bunch of centre clearences considering he didn't get any for the match.
He also only got 2 clearances around the ground so....
Also "more than 9 possesions" ? He only had 9 total.

 

[Winky]

Im torn as they've been exposed enough now to know they arnt AFL standard but you kind of need these plebs as depth.

Dockers first 2 goals were direct results from Foleys dropped marks

 

[archiemoses]

Simmo saw enough in the first 15 mins, then mixed it up. Who cares about the margin.

1 week closer to Reid

 

[WCE_phil]

Then that highlights what little you know about respiratory disease processes.

Asthma is a symptom of many respiratory pathologies either chronic or acute.

It doesn't matter if he had the flu, the medication of choice for respiratory distress is not Ventolin. It's one of the steroid medications such as pulmicort Symbicort etc.

If he was in such respiratory distress the doctor shouldn't have cleared him to play. Any player that doesn't require Ventolin data to day, to then requiring it 6x in a 24ht period is not fit to play.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

However it is a treatment of choice for Bronchitis. He shouldn't have been listed to play however a combination of cold/flu + bronchitis is pretty nasty.

 

[Bender_]

Did anyone besides me notice at 3 Qtr time that Bock refused to talk to the playing group. Sat away from them and then said several words to Gunston at most and walked off.

To say he has lost Longy after giving him some minutes is the understatement of the century. The guy is afraid to talk to them.

 

[Alesana]

Not sure how you have Clark with a bunch of centre clearences considering he didn't get any for the match.
He also only got 2 clearances around the ground so....
Also "more than 9 possesions" ? He only had 9 total.

I had him down for 3 clearances, though it's a little subjective as CD defines it as "Clearance: Credited to the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger kick that clears the stoppage area." He also put on a nice shepherd for SPS to have an uncontested clearance kick, and had a quick handball to SPS at a centre bounce which SPS fumbled, so really he played his part in what should've been 5 clearances just in one quarter.

He did have the 9 disposals but they are different to possessions.

 

[DoesNotBoo]

I thought JWilliams played pretty well up forward, seems to be improving steadily. He runs out of puff but at least he is prepared to expend himself.

 

[Bigger]

Simmo saw enough in the first 15 mins, then mixed it up. Who cares about the margin.

1 week closer to Reid

Wow.

 

[langdon19]

Sounds like we need to get The wily weagle in with his extensive medical expertise to settle this one, if he can find time between poo transplants.

Poor guy, has he been back since you guys pulled the piss out of him, always enjoyed his rants vs the wc fitness.

 

[Grahame]

I don't get the hate some have for SPS. Contributed more often than not this year. Keep him on as depth for sure.

Rather give 10-30 gamers a chance to improve. I reckon a sample of 120+ games (under different coaches) is enough to say SPS is an average player who won’t improve.

 

[Grahame]

Negative
The Kerr clan were very unhappy their footy club in its worst year got clobbered by an average team.

Positive
The Kerr clan were very happy that one of theirs captained an Australian team to the last four of a world championship.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Worst game I've ever been to.

Two goals until the last quarter.

Inexcusable. Players have checked out for the year

Not a single positive I will give for this.

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dylan82]

19 minutes.

That's how long the match lasted before Fremantle's stoppage game became ascendant, leading to the all-too-familiar fall of dominoes that results in disaster across all areas of the ground.

Every blowout loss this year sings to the same tune:

1. Getting sucked in at stoppage
   • Opposition starts winning decisively at clearance.
   • West Coast players react by closing in tighter on the stoppage, which does little to prevent opposing hands getting to the ball first.
   • With so many players in tight, the Eagles become incredibly exposed when the opposition is able to clear possession to the outside of the stoppage.
   • Afforded both time and space to select the best option, opposition runners on the outside transfer possession into attack in a way that leaves the West Coast defence as spectators.
2. Dominated for territory
   • With stoppages continuously in favour of the opponent, the game falls into one that exists entirely within the Eagles' defensive half.
   • Opposing defenders, growing in confidence, push far higher up the ground and remove the corridor as an exit point when West Coast has possession.
   • Forced up the line to a contest that is likely to be lost, and with multiple unmarked opposing spares in the middle of the ground, West Coast disposal chains result in turnovers that are easily turned into opposition scoring chances.
   • Starved of possession and chasing their defensive counterparts, West Coast forwards get far too high up the ground - to the point where on the occasions possession is able to get into the attacking half, they are completely ineffectual in being able to impact - leaving the Eagles near incapable of being able to generate any score at all.

So many times, always the same.

Has the coaching group learned anything? Apparently not.


81 minutes.

That's the amount of match time that took place between the Eagles' second and third goals.

During that period, Fremantle scored 17 consecutive goals.
The Dockers also had +40 inside 50s, +28 contested possessions and +12 clearances in that time.


It's also the amount of time the West Coast brains trust sat on their hands hoping for something good to happen.

Even then, when something was belatedly changed (Clark going onball), it was purely in reaction to something that was forced upon them (Cole's injury).



This result was NOT due to an illness or virus among the group.

If that were so, the figures for total distance covered and sprints would be way down - they are not. High speed distance covered is the same. Total sprints are +26. Repeat sprints are +6. Indeed, the top five players on the ground for total sprints are all Eagles.

Similarly, the Pressure Rating, a figure that is often conflated with effort and work rate, was higher throughout the match for West Coast, not Fremantle, despite the score becoming completely one-sided.


What happened in Derby 57 is a complete failure in the coaching box. And it can be added to the growing list of matches where a complete inability to act has occurred when the opposition has gained momentum.


Let's be clear, West Coast were never going to win this match. The disparity in talent between the two squads taking to the field was far too great to make such a result happen.

But this should never have been a 100+ point defeat. There is plenty that could (and should) have been done to deny the opposition from having the game completely on their terms in the manner that transpired.


Simpson can bang on all he likes about "not being able to get hands on the ball first" during his post-match press conferences, but what did he actually do during the game to address that problem? Not very much.

It's always been the same. Never has been a Plan B. Which was fine when Plan A was winning matches.

Now it only wins the wooden spoon.

 

[UseR2006]

19 minutes.

That's how long the match lasted before Fremantle's stoppage game became ascendant, leading to the all-too-familiar fall of dominoes that results in disaster across all areas of the ground.

Every blowout loss this year sings to the same tune:

1. Getting sucked in at stoppage
   • Opposition starts winning decisively at clearance.
   • West Coast players react by closing in tighter on the stoppage, which does little to prevent opposing hands getting to the ball first.
   • With so many players in tight, the Eagles become incredibly exposed when the opposition is able to clear possession to the outside of the stoppage.
   • Afforded both time and space to select the best option, opposition runners on the outside transfer possession into attack in a way that leaves the West Coast defence as spectators.
2. Dominated for territory
   • With stoppages continuously in favour of the opponent, the game falls into one that exists entirely within the Eagles' defensive half.
   • Opposing defenders, growing in confidence, push far higher up the ground and remove the corridor as an exit point when West Coast has possession.
   • Forced up the line to a contest that is likely to be lost, and with multiple unmarked opposing spares in the middle of the ground, West Coast disposal chains result in turnovers that are easily turned into opposition scoring chances.
   • Starved of possession and chasing their defensive counterparts, West Coast forwards get far too high up the ground - to the point where on the occasions possession is able to get into the attacking half, they are completely ineffectual in being able to impact - leaving the Eagles near incapable of being able to generate any score at all.

So many times, always the same.

Has the coaching group learned anything? Apparently not.


81 minutes.

That's the amount of match time that took place between the Eagles' second and third goals.

During that period, Fremantle scored 17 consecutive goals.
The Dockers also had +40 inside 50s, +28 contested possessions and +12 clearances in that time.


It's also the amount of time the West Coast brains trust sat on their hands hoping for something good to happen.

Even then, when something was belatedly changed (Clark going onball), it was purely in reaction to something that was forced upon them (Cole's injury).



This result was NOT due to an illness or virus among the group.

If that were so, the figures for total distance covered and sprints would be way down - they are not. High speed distance covered is the same. Total sprints are +26. Repeat sprints are +6. Indeed, the top five players on the ground for total sprints are all Eagles.

Similarly, the Pressure Rating, a figure that is often conflated with effort and work rate, was higher throughout the match for West Coast, not Fremantle, despite the score becoming completely one-sided.


What happened in Derby 57 is a complete failure in the coaching box. And it can be added to the growing list of matches where a complete inability to act has occurred when the opposition has gained momentum.


Let's be clear, West Coast were never going to win this match. The disparity in talent between the two squads taking to the field was far too great to make such a result happen.

But this should never have been a 100+ point defeat. There is plenty that could (and should) have been done to deny the opposition from having the game completely on their terms in the manner that transpired.


Simpson can bang on all he likes about "not being able to get hands on the ball first" during his post-match press conferences, but what did he actually do during the game to address that problem? Not very much.

It's always been the same. Never has been a Plan B. Which was fine when Plan A was winning matches.

Now it only wins the wooden spoon.

Not disagreeing with the info there but also note there is no suggestion of a solution.

Say Simmo holds the outside mids from the stoppage so they don't press in and hold their width then we just lose the stoppage at the coal face and likely the opposition run away from the stoppage or get an effective kick out where there's no players to defend.
We'd still be torched either way.

Even when Clark did go on ball he was ineffective in actually changing anything around the stoppages.

We don't have an effective Ruck who can get the ball outside the stoppage for our mids to run on to (ala Nic Nat) which would nullify opposition inside mids to a degree. The best that Bailey has right now is either taking the ball from the ruck himself or taps it to the ground where it's a scrap (which we 99% of the time will lose).

Not pressing the forwards up would give us more options when we do eventually go forward but it'd also reduce what is already basement level pressure from the midfield.

The only true fix is through getting more mids that can actually compete at the level inside the contest.
When the team only has 4 out of the top 10 winners in contested possessions on the ground and from those 4 only TK and Hewy were in the top 5 (1st and 5th) and 5 of the 6 dockers in the top 10 being Mids and the ruck it shows how outclassed we were completely in the inside. (the other 2 eagles were duggan and SPS in 9th and 10th).

I'd argue he doesn't really have many levers to pull for the midfield. Duggan went to the middle. He's got Gaff? Yeo will just break his body again in the middle. No point tagging anyone as they all were running riot. Short of having every mid go to an opponent and sitting on them the rest of the night (which wouldn't help anyway as they likely would just win the 1v1s) What moves should have he made?

What moves could he have made that weren't hailmary, for the hell of it moves like Witho in the middle, Cripps as a KDF type crazy moves?

For mine the issue is less in the coaches box and the complete failure of the list management team to identify and recruit for this problem as it's certainly not new. It's just the cracks were papered over when we had Nic Nat and Shuey floating around plugging holes.

 

[kaII]

Not disagreeing with the info there but also note there is no suggestion of a solution.

DW I fed the post into ChatGPT and asked for a strategy to employ and got the following

Here's a suggested strategy that the West Coast Eagles could employ to mitigate these failures:

1. Adaptive Stoppage Strategy:

• Focus on a more adaptive approach to stoppages. Instead of overcommitting players to every stoppage, prioritize balanced positioning.
• Train players to read the situation and adjust their positioning based on the opposition's performance in stoppages.
• Develop a midfield structure that includes both inside and outside players to prevent being exposed on the outside when the opposition wins clearances.
• Encourage quicker decision-making and anticipation to intercept opposition clearances.

2. Territory Management:

• Develop strategies to maintain control of the midfield and prevent opponents from gaining territorial dominance.
• Emphasize maintaining possession and using controlled short passes to advance the ball, avoiding turnovers.
• Work on effective use of the corridor by having players create passing lanes and providing options for the ball carrier.

3. Momentum Management:

• Implement strategies to respond quickly to momentum shifts. Have clear guidelines for players on how to regain momentum.
• Empower on-field leaders to rally the team during challenging moments and encourage a collective effort to regain control.

4. Tactical Flexibility:

• Develop a range of tactical options to adjust to changing match situations. This includes both Plan A and Plan B.
• Encourage players to be versatile and adaptable in their roles, allowing for seamless transitions between different strategies.
• Incorporate various formations and setups during training sessions to improve players' understanding of different tactical approaches.

5. In-game Coaching:

• Ensure the coaching staff is actively engaged during matches, identifying issues and making timely adjustments.
• Use tactical substitutions strategically, both to address injuries and to inject fresh energy when needed.
• Provide clear instructions to players on the field during breaks to reinforce tactical adjustments.

6. Analysis and Learning:

• Analyze match data to identify patterns of failure and success. Use this analysis to inform training sessions and strategy development.
• Foster a culture of continuous learning and improvement among players and coaching staff.

7. Player Fitness and Conditioning:

• Ensure that players are well-conditioned to maintain high levels of performance throughout the match.
• Work on endurance, speed, and recovery strategies to mitigate the impact of momentum shifts.

8. Psychological Resilience:

• Develop mental resilience and strategies for maintaining focus and composure, especially during challenging periods of the match.
• Provide psychological support and training to help players manage pressure and adversity.

By implementing this multifaceted strategy, the West Coast Eagles can address the stoppage vulnerabilities, territory management issues, and momentum challenges identified in the analysis. This approach emphasizes adaptability, tactical flexibility, and a proactive coaching approach to enhance the team's overall performance and competitiveness.

Based on the highlighted it sounds like we're going back to the 2018 game plan!

 

[Deepthroat]

Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

is going to be a real WEAPON for Fremantle.

Darcy's days are numbered as Jackson is so much more dynamic when playing second ruck.

How we stuffed our salary cap so we couldn't make a play for him last year is laughable.

 

[bzparkes]

Luke Jackson is going to be a real WEAPON for Fremantle.

Darcy's days are numbered as Jackson is so much more dynamic when playing second ruck.

How we stuffed our salary cap so we couldn't make a play for him last year is laughable.

Jackson would've been the mother of all bad ideas for WCE.

What issues would he have fixed for us, whilst annihilating our draft hand?

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

Simmo saw enough in the first 15 mins, then mixed it up. Who cares about the margin.

1 week closer to Reid

That is a very strange take on the game. There’s tanking, and there’s tanking. There’s also embarrassing lack of effort and complete disregard for the club’s long suffering supporters. Enough about Reid, for crying out loud. What if he’s not the magical wunderwaffe everyone hopes he is. It’s happened before. And SPS was (I think) a no. 5 pick.

 

[bzparkes]

That is a very strange take on the game. There’s tanking, and there’s tanking. There’s also embarrassing lack of effort and complete disregard for the club’s long suffering supporters.

This comment is very out of touch.

WCE are one of the last clubs who can claim 'long-suffering' supporters...

Enough about Reid, for crying out loud. What if he’s not the magical wunderwaffe everyone hopes he is. It’s happened before. And SPS was (I think) a no. 5 pick.

We didn't draft/develop SPS, he went to an inept Carlton side. He also went at the dreaded pick no.6.

WCE have managed to get value out of our top 5 picks, bar McDougall.

You don't think the desperation from the Vic media for WCE not to take Reid, plus comments like Brad Scotts' justify the hype?

Suggest you go watch a few of his games and you'll understand why people are excited.

 

[Deepthroat]

Jackson would've been the mother of all bad ideas for WCE.

What issues would he have fixed for us, whilst annihilating our draft hand?

A 12 year ruck GUN.

It would have cost us Ginbey/Hewett obviously. I don't think a future pick would have been required if we traded Pick 2.

 

[Shuestar13]

Long suffering supporters! Thanks for the laugh on a Monday morning

 

[bzparkes]

A 12 year ruck GUN.

It would have cost us Ginbey/Hewett obviously. I don't think a future pick would have been required if we traded Pick 2.

Who would Jackson ruck to?

Terrible idea.

WCE didn't go for the trade because of the contract cost, they didn't want to destroy their draft hand at the start of a rebuild.

You don't trade for pieces like Jackson when you're rebuilding, you go after them to finish your build.

Melbourne absolutely would've expected our F1st this year, at a swap at the very least.

Imagine giving up Ginbey, Hewet and potentially Reid, just for Luke Jackson, whilst gifting Wardlaw and Reid to Melbourne?

It's a hideous thought.