No Oppo Supporters Shrugging a tackle vs ducking

[Baby Duck]

I just remembered that Sicily kneeing Joel in the head is the second time that has happened by a Hawthorn player. Taylor, their old ruckman did exactly the same thing to him some years back. They love cheap shots at Hawthorn. Has to be encouraged, surely. The amount of weak incidents like that over the years from that mob is just too much for it to simply be a case of them all being knobs.

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[AM]

Pendlebury was right in saying it's the tacklers responsibility to execute correctly, which is to go for the hips.

If Clarko is concerned about concussions then king hitting from behind as he did on Ian Aitken in an exhibition game then running from the scene is far more concerning at all levels.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

I must have read a different article to most

" We have spoken about Joel which is a little unfair in a sense because many players do it . Poppy is probably a ripper for us - its the way they play the game "

"It will impact on Paul Puopolo and James Sicily just as as it will with Joel Sellwood if it is to be changed . Ithink thats whats good for the game "

No bigger fan than me of J Selwood - in past threads ive called him Geelongs greatest ever player ( because with out him - (pre Dangerfield days) - he was the only thing holding Geel together - one of those losing finals to Hawthorn he was outstanding and the only reason Geel remained in the game - where as team mates that night wre fn ordinary

However i didnt like the freekick on Monday ( even though L Mathews said it was the tacklers fault) . The tackler had no hope - because even if he went lower as Joel ducked/or dropped his body - and tackled Joel around the hips - then Selwoods arms are free to hanball it off - so the tackler even if he was Houdini - he had no chance

Christenson was 10 times worse than Selwood when he was at Geel - it was cringeworthy at the time - McClean - Miles Poppy - Shuey ( and got the winning kick in that final last year ) and even Parfitt has got the bailout when in dire trouble - of the old rubber neck

They should be instructed to call it Play on - and no free kick is awarded - i think it would be for the better

Can't be called play on. It would be too hard to police.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Disagree ( and this is my last comment on it ) - 80% of the time i havent got a problem with it - and he does win the hard ball and gets belted in the process

However alot of times - when he shrugs and trys to break free of the tackle ( and often he has broken free - so the free kick is irrelevant ) - the opposition players hand goes over the shoulder

However on Monday it was different - he saw the Hawthorn bloke - and he dropped his knees - he lowered his body - there no blooody shrug of the shoulders at all - that didnt cause that high tackle - it was him dropping / lowering / collapsing his body

Agree. Except for the 80%. He plays for a free maybe one in 20. It's rare. And unfortunately this time it has given Clarksen an excuse to mouth off.

 

[Scottland2007]

A player is allowed to evade the tackler. Head high became an issue because Jordan Lewis used to charge in head first and expect a free.

 

[Scottland2007]

This morning Chris Scott fired back at Clarko over his comments.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-07/scott-hits-back-at-clarkos-selwood-comments

Here's a video with Joey Montagna explaining what Selwood does and how it's different to playing for a free kick.



What are people's thoughts? I'm trying to remember Joel's 3 concussions and whether any of them were a result of his shrugging. I think there was one against the Hawks in 2013 [EDIT - apologies this was actually Joel Corey] and one against the Dockers, both of which were a result of collisions where he had his head over the ball, so I'd agree that Clarko is talking out of his arse on this one.

I love this. It’s not like Joel and Joe were ever teammates either. Joe doesn’t have to “stick up for him”

 

[Scottland2007]

i am definitely on joels side of this whole argument, but i think if he wore a hawthorn jumper we would probably all see it very differently...

So would the media. He’d be compared to Lethal daily.

 

[Cosmic Energy]

It wouldn’t phase me if they stopped paying the high tackles for the shrug, as long as it wasn’t open season on letting players come in high - all protection should go to the guy winning the ball. Leigh Matthews and Tim Lane spoke really well on the broader topic yesterday on 3AW, against the tide of ‘reward the tackler’ proponents. If it’s easier to be the tackler and there is no encouragement to take the game on, to try and evade given a reasonable prior opportunity then that is a game I’d no longer watch.

 

[romeohwho]

It wouldn’t phase me if they stopped paying the high tackles for the shrug, as long as it wasn’t open season on letting players come in high - all protection should go to the guy winning the ball. Leigh Matthews and Tim Lane spoke really well on the broader topic yesterday on 3AW, against the tide of ‘reward the tackler’ proponents. If it’s easier to be the tackler and there is no encouragement to take the game on, to try and evade given a reasonable prior opportunity then that is a game I’d no longer watch.

Yep and really, the player going for the ball has limited options. If you don’t try to evade the tackle, what options does one have. The don’t argue? The throwback the elbow? One can imagine the uproar if Selwood became a proponent of these tactics. It’d be just as much fuss- you can’t win against these duffers.

 

[Spearman]

i am definitely on joels side of this whole argument, but i think if he wore a hawthorn jumper we would probably all see it very differently...

...or any other club's. Yes there may be some whining, but would we be starting thread after thread calling him a cheat or satan's spawn? I think probably not. How badly did this board savage Ballantyne? Baker?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Soz about drunken outbursts last night. Anyway I think a lot of us remember playing footy with mates and siblings as kids where there's no umpires and no free kicks. You just gotta find a way to break the tackle. That's all it is with Selwood.
Wants to break the tackle and get a kick away.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Why not let a player shrug and then just call play on, rather than pay a free? (Provided he doesn't have his head pulled off)

 

[allrighty]

"I can understand that Alastair was frustrated with James Sicily getting suspended but I think any reasonable person would say that Joel was more likely to suffer a concussion from a knee in the head that shrugging a tackle around the shoulder," Scott said.

This is the truth of the matter. Clarkson trying to deflect criticism from his own player. Scott goes on to add: "To bring it up again and suggest a change in the rules I think is deflecting from the real issue Alastair probably wanted to talk about."

And we can only wonder what that issue was. Look, any reasonable supporter of any AFL club would give their eyeteeth to have Joel Selwood in their team - and, specifically, as their captain. He is, if not the gutsiest (and I suspect he is) then at least one of the gutsiest players I've ever seen. Few could rationally deny that. For Clarkson to spruik such "alternative facts" (Chris Scott's phrase) is not only completely disingenuous it is to personally insult a player who is a gentleman, a fearsome opponent and a universally admired (except by morons) leader who any coach would dearly love to have on his team.

And I will repeat - Leigh Matthews when asked to pick between having Luke Hodge and Joel in his team said "Joel no doubt."

 

[allrighty]

i am definitely on joels side of this whole argument, but i think if he wore a hawthorn jumper we would probably all see it very differently...

Confirmation bias is rife. But not on this board of course

 

[Cataholic]

I just remembered that Sicily kneeing Joel in the head is the second time that has happened by a Hawthorn player. Taylor, their old ruckman did exactly the same thing to him some years back. They love cheap shots at Hawthorn. Has to be encouraged, surely. The amount of weak incidents like that over the years from that mob is just too much for it to simply be a case of them all being knobs.

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They’re being led by a knob that’s totally devoid of courage but full of spite

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Hi All. Saw the No-Opposition Supporters so please feel free to delete if not allowed.

Firstly, I just wanted to say how much more reasonable the discussion was in this thread compared to certain posters on the main board. It's a pity many of the more reasonable posters refrain from posting elsewhere.

Secondly, (seeing as more reasoned posters here) the main issue is not with what Joel does - but rather that the umpires are consistently calling it incorrectly as per their own guidelines (image below is from the AFL Laws of the Game guideline video). The solution is simple - umpires need to apply the law correctly (play-on unless tackle starts high) - and Selwood will continue to break tackles with his extremely effective method, umpires will now call play on and the fans (well most, there's always a few morons) will go back to raving about how good a player Selwood is rather than blaming him for what is actually umpiring errors.

 

[catempire]

Why not let a player shrug and then just call play on, rather than pay a free? (Provided he doesn't have his head pulled off)

Umpiring Aussie rules is already very difficult. Umpires are told to not pay the high free if the tackled player caused the high contact. In the moment that’s very hard to judge.

I guarantee we will see some false negatives with selwood for the next few weeks because umpires need simple cues to make decisions and they will see its Joel and not pay it, even when it’s there (as most are).

 

[Cataholic]

Hi All. Saw the No-Opposition Supporters so please feel free to delete if not allowed.

Firstly, I just wanted to say how much more reasonable the discussion was in this thread compared to certain posters on the main board. It's a pity many of the more reasonable posters refrain from posting elsewhere.

Secondly, (seeing as more reasoned posters here) the main issue is not with what Joel does - but rather that the umpires are consistently calling it incorrectly as per their own guidelines (image below is from the AFL Laws of the Game guideline video). The solution is simple - umpires need to apply the law correctly (play-on unless tackle starts high) - and Selwood will continue to break tackles with his extremely effective method, umpires will now call play on and the fans (well most, there's always a few morons) will go back to raving about how good a player Selwood is rather than blaming him for what is actually umpiring errors.

View attachment 480395

And that would apply to Poppy too??

 

[mcwilrob]

Puopolo does exactly the same thing as Joel every game. Little bit hypocritical of Clarko really.

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A LOT hypocritical of that SOB!!

 

[mcwilrob]

Head high tackles...what about head high take outs ... I think the player who Clarkson did his brave little love tap on in London never really recovered. What about the thuggery of certain coaches... encouraging a certain style.. encouraging anti social play? I bet there is far more injury to players from some of his methodology than what someone does to try to avoid being tackled

Im a tad over this constant ill informed stoke the fire issue.. the media lap it up. Well should I say most. KB Bartlett has always been a Selwood supporter.. he continually sites that a player has the right to try to avoid being tackled.. he continually tells tackles to tackle lower ..and if they do not then do not whinge and whine when a free kick is given.

Train your players to not give the free kick away instead of swimming in your own bath water Mr Shark Net

Now I understand in the old days one could grab a jumper and sling , and really dropkick the player with the tackle by riding him to the ground .. people like Clarkson should keep their comments to themselves. One can only imagine the reaction if it was us whinging about Pulpo or some other player in his side.

I guess what he has done is just added a tad Tabasco to the next match between us.

Exactly!! Well said and there should be a LOT more recognition of things like "unsociable football" (i.e. thuggery) from the media too...

 

[mcwilrob]

Yep, Clarkson should focus on deliberate knees to the head or deliberate corkies from his flog players.

Flog of a person, flog of a coach. Flog.

 

[Skeppersap]

Hi All. Saw the No-Opposition Supporters so please feel free to delete if not allowed.

Firstly, I just wanted to say how much more reasonable the discussion was in this thread compared to certain posters on the main board. It's a pity many of the more reasonable posters refrain from posting elsewhere.

Secondly, (seeing as more reasoned posters here) the main issue is not with what Joel does - but rather that the umpires are consistently calling it incorrectly as per their own guidelines (image below is from the AFL Laws of the Game guideline video). The solution is simple - umpires need to apply the law correctly (play-on unless tackle starts high) - and Selwood will continue to break tackles with his extremely effective method, umpires will now call play on and the fans (well most, there's always a few morons) will go back to raving about how good a player Selwood is rather than blaming him for what is actually umpiring errors.

View attachment 480395

If Hawthorn supporters really don't think it is Selwood, why do they continually call him Duckwood on the main board, or why do they redoing with s**t like ''quack'? Why do Hawthorn supporting mods accept this on the main board.

Your comment about this being about umpires instead of Selwood on the main board is bullshit. If you think otherwise, you are just another one eyed poster, not worth listening to!

 

[barmy44]

If Hawthorn supporters really don't think it is Selwood, why do they continually call him Duckwood on the main board, or why do they redoing with s**t like ''quack'? Why do Hawthorn supporting mods accept this on the main board.

Your comment about this being about umpires instead of Selwood on the main board is bullshit. If you think otherwise, you are just another one eyed poster, not worth listening to!

id say a lot of the reason people use those terms on the main board is simple: they want to get a rise out of cats fans, and it works far more often than not. its the internet, its what people do.

i couldnt care less what petty and childish names people put on selwood to get a reaction... i know he is a great player and great captain, and i get to watch him be that each week.

i will take exception to those schoolyard names online when schoolyard names online start impacting on his ability. as that will be 'never', they can go for it.

next time you see 'duckwood' on the main board, just ignore it and keep scrolling.

in fact, the amount of vitriol selwood does get is probably indicative of just how good and effective he has been for so long.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Fair smackdown from Scotty for the little midget.

Clarkson is 'The Dwarf'

Sam Mitchell is 'The Midget'

 

[Cataholic]

Clarkson is 'The Dwarf'

Sam Mitchell is 'The Midget'

Wonder which inanimate object is going to bear the dwarf’s temper today?