Take Two - Pick 2 & 3, who ya got?

Which combo?

  • Harry Sheezel

    Votes: 155 92.3%

  • Elijah Tsatas

    Votes: 31 18.5%

  • George Wardlaw

    Votes: 146 86.9%
  • Total voters
    168

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Mixed Results said:
As a prospect, I think the best comparison to Tsatas is our own Stephenson.

Stephenson started his year up forward, but had that stretch in the middle where he was getting the ball 30+ times a game. They both were that inside/outside receiver type with great speed and shaky disposal. I struggle to think of any other accumulators at u18 level with that combination of ball-winning and speed.

Tsatas has a much better frame that suggests he’ll have an easier time transitioning to becoming a full time midfielder, and there’s also more upside to his disposal when compared to Stephenson.
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Is that a funny way of saying Sleevo is a better kick?
 
Wardlaw two hammy's this year with the 2nd one pinged only a few minutes into the game and then didn't do the combine in fear it might go ping again - oakleigh chargers medicos fault, player wanting to get get back out there fault? Danger Will Robinson!!

PS. this is not a smear on how talented this kid is who is an upgrade on Will Phillips but hammy issues at this stage is not the same as shoulder issues aka Chris Judd.
 

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ferball said:
Is that a funny way of saying Sleevo is a better kick?
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By that I meant that Tsatas has more moments compared to Stephenson where he displays great vision and execution.

It’s been a long time since the 2017 draft, but I don’t ever recall Stephenson having many kicks that stood out as being elite. We’ve also since seen roughly 450 of his kicks in the blue and white and I don’t recall being amazed by any of them.

Overall they probably had similar kicking efficiencies in their u18 year if anybody has access to those numbers, but I think Tsatas has more potential to develop into a good user.

I hate to use his name, but think JHF. For the 2022 year his kicking efficiency was below average, but we all remember a few of his kicks that were elite. His kicking efficiency was lower than Stephenson, but if you asked 10 North supporters a couple of weeks ago who the better kick was you’d probably have 9 or 10 of them say JHF. So just like you’d say JHF is a poor user with upside you could say the same about Tsatas. There’s never been much reason to have hope that Stephenson would become an elite user.
 
Mixed Results said:
By that I meant that Tsatas has more moments compared to Stephenson where he displays great vision and execution.

It’s been a long time since the 2017 draft, but I don’t ever recall Stephenson having many kicks that stood out as being elite. We’ve also since seen roughly 450 of his kicks in the blue and white and I don’t recall being amazed by any of them.

Overall they probably had similar kicking efficiencies in their u18 year if anybody has access to those numbers, but I think Tsatas has more potential to develop into a good user.

I hate to use his name, but think JHF. For the 2022 year his kicking efficiency was below average, but we all remember a few of his kicks that were elite. His kicking efficiency was lower than Stephenson, but if you asked 10 North supporters a couple of weeks ago who the better kick was you’d probably have 9 or 10 of them say JHF. So just like you’d say JHF is a poor user with upside you could say the same about Tsatas. There’s never been much reason to have hope that Stephenson would become an elite user.
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I can remember a few kicks towards the end of this year by Sleevo coming out of defence that were very impressive and thinking to myself I haven't seen anyone do that for us for a while.

There was also one very bad kick that springs to mind:sweatsmile:
 
Clarke is King said:
Sorry if this has been done, but giantroo roos_fanatic08 Souup who are you taking with 2 and 3 (if Cadman goes 1)
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Best available = Wardlaw and Sheezel <----- My preference

If list balance is something we're overly concerned about = Sheezel and Tsatas

If we're trying to be romantic about it all = Wardlaw and Tsatas
 
ohmygewd said:
Wardlaw two hammy's this year with the 2nd one pinged only a few minutes into the game and then didn't do the combine in fear it might go ping again - oakleigh chargers medicos fault, player wanting to get get back out there fault? Danger Will Robinson!!

PS. this is not a smear on how talented this kid is who is an upgrade on Will Phillips but hammy issues at this stage is not the same as shoulder issues aka Chris Judd.
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I believe it was 3 hammys
 
Speaking of injuries, not sure how Tsatas fractured his foot, but we’d want to make sure it’s A ok if we bypass Wardlaw for him. I didn’t realise but Callaghan has had to have corrective foot surgery post season this year after missing the back half of last year with it. I believe they are taking part of the bone out.

Foot injuries can linger.
 
ohmygewd said:
Cheers for that!!

No chance you would take Wardlaw and risk having a Nathan Freeman on your list no matter how good he is!!

The Sheez and his team mate Cam Mackenzie...the big Gruzewski would be interesting givem he's a north supporter.
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I want the sheez and Tsatas personally. Once Tsatas is at his peak physically he will be ballistic.
 

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ohmygewd said:
Cheers for that!!

No chance you would take Wardlaw and risk having a Nathan Freeman on your list no matter how good he is!!

The Sheez and his team mate Cam Mackenzie...the big Gruzewski would be interesting givem he's a north supporter.
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Trelour is a great example of someone with really bad hammies being able to over come any issues. He played every game this year.

Freeman also looks to be past his issues and gets massive numbers in the twos - he just wasn't good enough at AFL level.
 
the big lebowski said:
Speaking of injuries, not sure how Tsatas fractured his foot, but we’d want to make sure it’s A ok if we bypass Wardlaw for him. I didn’t realise but Callaghan has had to have corrective foot surgery post season this year after missing the back half of last year with it. I believe they are taking part of the bone out.

Foot injuries can linger.
Click to expand...

I asked someone if J*fkead was to "hypothetically" sustain a debilitating injury which would you prefer? Within milliseconds the response was "Foot!" then citing the damage done to JWS.
 
Wild Bill said:
Trelour is a great example of someone with really bad hammies being able to over come any issues. He played every game this year.

Freeman also looks to be past his issues and gets massive numbers in the twos - he just wasn't good enough at AFL level.
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I hear ya but we've been hoping Comben can play more than 1 game this year, do we really need a our pick 1 or 2 to be another player that is injury prone before he plays 10 games?
I've watched Wardlaw live a few times and when he is fit, a better two way runner than Ashcroft, Jyhe Clark catches the eye as well especially he can use both sides of his body!! Again, 3 hammys in one season and whose our strength and conditioning coach again?
 
Val Keating said:
Does his kicking worry you?
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Well I'll start by saying that I don't think any of the options for us at 2 and 3 are complete players.

Cadman kicks as many points as goals. Even Sheezel misses plenty of easy goals for someone as highly skilled as he is. Lastly, Wardlaw who seems to be the main player we will decide between re Tsatas, isn't any thing special by foot.

Now, onto Tsatas. Overall I would classify him as an inconsistent kick, much in the way Goater is. Part of it is a technique thing where something can go wrong from kick to kick, meaning they spray them, part of it is they use extreme pace and run, which can make kicks hard to control. But certainly, it san area for Tsatas to tidy up, like his other fellow draftees. That said Fyfe, Judd, Danger, Cripps would all be classified as inconsistent kicks IMO, and they all obviously go ok.

The two biggest worries I have for Tsatas are

1: his physicality
2: his defensive game

Neither are great, especially when compared to Wardlaw.

But I thought I might have a closer look as Tsatas games this year. I'm going to reference PMBangers thread and the various videos of him.

Background - Tsatas went into the year as a possible pick 1 so given he was hyped up, peoples impressions of performance can be skewed.

Calder vs Oakleigh Practice Match - PMBangers on Tsatas

Elijah Tsatas (188 cm [allegedly]); eDPS was just THRILLED to see Tsatas starting on the Wing, where he held his space and timed his runs well to be a good outside option and unsurprisingly hurt with his kicking, but he really impressed when playing on the inside and around stoppages. Tsatas is essentially unmatchable in these situations, his burst speed is too hard to keep up with unless you can read it coming before he sets off and he demonstrated that well through the game. Deceivingly tough as well, won plenty of it contested and was one that put in repeat efforts consistently, getting up after laying or receiving a tackle and cracking at it again.

PS - A comment of Wardlaw

Early on his use by foot wasn't great, some of the kicks were forgiveable but there were some genuine howlers, but he worked into it a bit more and improved in the second half in that regard

Round 1 Oakleigh v Sandy (I believe this is the game that Wardlaw's highlights package is on) - PMBangers on Tsatas

Starting the game on the wing, the pick one contender played his role well superbly with his ability to hold space and time his runs to receive handballs or sweep up on loose balls out of contests. This ability saw him used as a forward handball option a few times heading inside 50, where he was able to quickly assess his options ahead and kick well for his forwards to easily lead into and take on the chest. Tsatas also managed to impact centre stoppages despite starting on the wing, with one particular play where he bolted in at full speed, winning the ball as it spilled over the top of the contest, powering away and bombing long to the top of the goalsquare. It wasn’t all outside work for Tsatas though, taking his opportunities in the centre square to show his capabilities in winning contested footy, using it well under pressure and his athletic tricks which let him get away from congestion, or around opponents, almost too easily.

Comments from Draft Footy Talk - "For Oakleigh, there were several good players. Wardlaw was best for them (and best on ground) in the middle and takes early honours against Ashcroft for No. 1 pick.…he was hard at it and won several clearances…he has real desire to hunt and win the footy. Tsatas on the wing was busy all day, got lots of it, but wasteful at times…..does have a real knack of finding space and creating an option"

Comment from PushInTheBack - "I had Tsatsas as BOG. It’s gonna be a tight finish for the #1"

Round 2 Oakleigh vs Northen Knights - Tsatas 36 disposals (Wardlaw didn't play)

Comments from Draft Footy Talk - "Tsatas played mainly on the wing and was great. He worked hard all day and got involved in several passages. He lead the disposal count for both teams on the day. Used the ball well by hand and foot and also had a run through the middle."

There is a short Vid of the goals from this game



3:20 Tsatas leads opponent to the ball, gathers cleanly at pace, kicks well at pace to a forwards advantage

3:38 similar to the above, but not sure if there was a mini edit in the footage to make the kick look beautiful. If there wasn't it was a very impressive bit of play.

Round 3 Oakleigh vs Eastern - Tsatas 42 disposals

Comments from FindMyFooty - "For Oakleigh, other than Tsatas who had 42 touches, stats wise it was a pretty even spread.......Through the midfield, Tsatas gathered 42 touches playing wing and inside…he worked hard to be an option and used the ball well for most of his touches….does need to work on his defensive game as once again had 0 tackles."

Comments from PushInTheBack - "I'll give a different view of the game as it is easy to get seduced by the stats. Make no mistake about it Oakleigh dominated the game and at no stage was the game ever in threat. Oakleigh have a very strong team with match winners across every line. Yes Eastern got close but TBH its a false economy.

The Oakleigh mids showed the Eastern mids what the standard is if they are to be considered in the first rnd of the draft. Tsatsas gets plenty of the ball every week, however, according to his reactions he would agree that he needs to tidy up his disposal by foot. He had an opportunity to kick a great goal on the run from 50m but shanked it. Having said this the kid is a gun and if you can average 35 disposals per week you can play the game...at this stage he is a monty to go top 5. Tsatsas rightly named in the best."

Again, there is a goals video from this game (Wardlaw plays but doesn't make the vid other than getting caught holding the ball)



22 secs - handball receive, forward handball to teammate after making decision not to kick.

1:30 - loose ball get, centre's ball to teammate with effective short kick.

1:37 - uncontested mark, chips loopy kick to team mate that gets spoiled and turned over, ball finds its way back to states who gathers off the deck and handballs backwards to team mate.

1:50 - intercepts short kick for a mark, kicks short to teammate in centre effectively.

1:54 - takes uncontested mark after risky kick to him, handballs to team mate running past.

2:59 - looking like Goater he intercept marks long kick into defence infant of pack, then kicks short to team mate.

Oakleigh Vs Calder (this was the game for me that has me picking Tsatas over Wardlaw)

Comments from PM Bangers - The pick one contender continued his hot start to the season with another exceptional performance. Tsatas possesses a burst of speed unlike any other prospect and he wasn’t afraid to back that in to burn off opponents with ball in hand and get into space to deliver the ball well forward. Tsatas showed some finesse with his kicking at times, able to change angles quickly and hit targets in more central areas of the ground, even under pressure. Tsatas got a move to the inside from the wing in final term and continued to shine, showing he’s not one to shy away from contested ball, and continued to show off his burst from the congestion.

Comments from PushInTheBack - Oakleigh dominated this game. Tsatsas and Wardlaw won their usual fair share of the ball. Tsatsas is class, he impresses me more every week. He brings his teammates into the game, really good hands. RFI balance when he’s running full tilt. Wardlaw is a grade 6 playing against preps, he’s the leading #1 pick.

Finally, a video from the man, the myth, the legend, Giantroo - this one is solely focused on Tsatas, unlike the others, and shows the good and the bad from his game



0 secs - receives ball at back of pack, burns through traffic, kicks long, well placed but intercepted by defender in hole.

0:15 - lays a rare tackle

0:22 - wins contested footy and handballs into space to team mate, first of many lovely ground ball gathers ahead for the day.

0:30 - short kick to ward law after intercept mark

0:44 - hits team-mate inside 50 after working to space

0:58 - rundown after great calder chase, impacting kick inside 50

1:02 - neat kick into centre

1:10 - looks like Issac smith running hard to get forward handball, runs hard with footy but slows down before lovely long kick to forwards advantage

1:22 - sideways kick to teammate

1:38 - GR highlights a lack of physicality from Tsatas

1:43 - piece of play is magnificent, ending with a lovely composed kick to team mate

1:53 - opposite of above, sticks out the one hand to try and gather loose ball, should have been stronger over it, and is made to look silly

2:16 - drills a long goal outside 50

2:27 - beautiful inside 50

2:42 - poor kick

3:06 - set shot outside 50 falls short

3:13 - lovely composure and handball to wardlaw

3:30 - nice inside 50 to forwards advantage

3:40 - poor kick

3:58 - magnificent piece of play from centre where he wins initial clearance, runs hard to receive ball, but misses goal as he runs into the forward 50.

4:15 - nice inside 50 that get intercepted infant of leading forward.

4:25 - nice entering kick that was risky

Summary

Tsatas is about to cop a foot fracture here, so I'll take a break and look at things 2.5 months later when he makes his return.

Summary until this point is that, kicking overall is pretty good, not excellent, but he is prone to a poor kick/poor option. Certainly isn't an imposing physical player, and defensive efforts need to improve. From an offensive poi t of view, he is clearly a weapon .
 
No ball hunting crabs.

Cunners is slow but a unicorn in many ways.

I don't want crabs who can't run and can't kick as half our list are them.

Christ Isaac Smith is soft as, 48yo and so outside, but he is very damaging, knows running patterns, and is still a gun.
 
koshari said:
and garner is the polar opposite
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I rarely meet players being in Hobart.

It's actually quite amazing how they are in person and how they achieve (or not0 n field.

I've only met about 10 in last few years and it's a very similar theme outside ONE outlier.
 
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