List Mgmt. The 2018 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[BloodySwan]

I'd be thrilled for a first round pick if we have to trade him. Really though we would probably be looking at a 2nd and a late pick swap at best.

Easily worth a first rounder given his 2018 form and age. Currently averaging 27 disposals, he's just shy of AA form (honestly should be within talks as well). Maybe not a top 10 pick but 10-20 doesn't sound unreasonable

 

[Number37]

Easily worth a first rounder given his 2018 form and age. Currently averaging 27 disposals, he's just shy of AA form (honestly should be within talks as well). Maybe not a top 10 pick but 10-20 doesn't sound unreasonable

Taking a line through the Mitchell trade, Lloyd will be worth a late second rounder IMO.

 

[sataris]

Draft picks are downgrades on established players.

 

[BloodySwan]

Taking a line through the Mitchell trade, Lloyd will be worth a late second rounder IMO.

2016 Mitchell, 4th in line at the Swans midfield who was traded for pick 14 and an upgrade of a 3rd rounder?

Mitchell's 2016 stats are incredibly similar to Lloyds stats this year (except the CP vs R50s, etc)

 

[Number37]

2016 Mitchell, 4th in line at the Swans midfield who was traded for pick 14 and an upgrade of a 3rd rounder?

Mitchell's 2016 stats are incredibly similar to Lloyds stats this year (except the CP vs R50s, etc)

Difference is that Mitchell is a midfielder not a HBF. Midfielders are far more valuable than HBF's, although the Jake Lever trade/move might put a lie to that theory.

IMO, nobody will trade a high first rounder unless they are getting overs in return. Personally I think Lloyd has had a stellar couple of years but he is never going to be a superstar that commands huge dollars or attractive trade offers.

 

[caesar88]

Difference is that Mitchell is a midfielder not a HBF. Midfielders are far more valuable than HBF's, although the Jake Lever trade/move might put a lie to that theory.

IMO, nobody will trade a high first rounder unless they are getting overs in return. Personally I think Lloyd has had a stellar couple of years but he is never going to be a superstar that commands huge dollars or attractive trade offers.

Is that why everyone was complaining when we had a line of quality midfielders but still couldn't win a flag, that we needed a half back flanker?

Okay then

 

[BloodySwan]

Difference is that Mitchell is a midfielder not a HBF. Midfielders are far more valuable than HBF's, although the Jake Lever trade/move might put a lie to that theory.

IMO, nobody will trade a high first rounder unless they are getting overs in return. Personally I think Lloyd has had a stellar couple of years but he is never going to be a superstar that commands huge dollars or attractive trade offers.

Sam Murray got a second round draft pick, at the time he was an untried rookie playing off of half back. Lever got 2 first round draft picks! Lloyd will easily command a first round draft pick using those two as a metric

EDIT: Also adding Delidio was traded for a first round and a third round as a half back

 

[Number37]

Is that why everyone was complaining when we had a line of quality midfielders but still couldn't win a flag, that we needed a half back flanker?

Okay then

Sam Murray got a second round draft pick, at the time he was an untried rookie playing off of half back. Lever got 2 first round draft picks! Lloyd will easily command a first round draft pick using those two as a metric

EDIT: Also adding Delidio was traded for a first round and a third round as a half back

Everyone thought Mitchell was worth a top 10 pick.
Lloyd, like Mitchell & Lever & Murray is worth what someone is willing to pay.

I can't see any team that is (1) desperate for a player with his skill set or (2) Willing to cough up a first rounder for him.
If someone is willing to pay him >$600k they would probably give up a first rounder for him.
I don't think anyone is willing to pay him that much & therefore I don't think he would go for a first rounder.

 

[TheMase]

Sam Murray got a second round draft pick, at the time he was an untried rookie playing off of half back. Lever got 2 first round draft picks! Lloyd will easily command a first round draft pick using those two as a metric

EDIT: Also adding Delidio was traded for a first round and a third round as a half back

Pretty sure Sam was an effective upgrade of our third round pick for 2018 as we traded our future third (2018) for their second (included our 2017 4th round selection too).

Still I would hope for a late first/early second round pick.

 

[caesar88]

Everyone thought Mitchell was worth a top 10 pick.
Lloyd, like Mitchell & Lever & Murray is worth what someone is willing to pay.

I can't see any team that is (1) desperate for a player with his skill set or (2) Willing to cough up a first rounder for him.
If someone is willing to pay him >$600k they would probably give up a first rounder for him.
I don't think anyone is willing to pay him that much & therefore I don't think he would go for a first rounder.

So question is why wouldn't WE be willing to pay him that much, given our well-documented need for a quality HBF. Unless it's about him wanting to go home to Melbourne, in which case I could understand it. But if it's a money thing, I think we should be doing everything we can to retain him.

 

[Punts]

We can cover Lloyd’s 15m side to side passes

 

[caesar88]

We can cover Lloyd’s 15m side to side passes

As I said it's not just his 15m side to side passes. IMO he is our best player in traffic, even more so than Parker, Heeney etc. That's why I've wanted him to spend more time on the ball even though he's good in the HBF role. Seriously go back and watch any game since about 2016. He's one of the few Swans who doesn't suffer from headless chook syndrome when under the pump.

 

[Punts]

As I said it's not just his 15m side to side passes. IMO he is our best player in traffic, even more so than Parker, Heeney etc. That's why I've wanted him to spend more time on the ball even though he's good in the HBF role. Seriously go back and watch any game since about 2016. He's one of the few Swans who doesn't suffer from headless chook syndrome when under the pump.

Go back and watch the game against the Dogs at the scg if we are talking 2016 when he shat and kicked it straight up in the air with stuff all time to go

Headless chook

 

[caesar88]

Go back and watch the game against the Dogs at the scg if we are talking 2016 when he shat and kicked it straight up in the air with stuff all time to go

Headless chook

Well if we're going into examples we better start a new thread because the other 20 or so blokes in the team would have a significantly longer reel than Lloyd. I'd love him to be on the ball more personally that's how highly I rate him, though we've both made our points on that topic

 

[6yearsold]

Well if we're going into examples we better start a new thread because the other 20 or so blokes in the team would have a significantly longer reel than Lloyd. I'd love him to be on the ball more personally that's how highly I rate him, though we've both made our points on that topic

midfielders need to be able to tackle though.

 

[caesar88]

midfielders need to be able to tackle though.

I have no doubt Lloyd would tackle more if he was on the ball more. Playing a HBF/Nick Smith kind of role doesn't exactly require a lot of contested work.

 

[Number37]

So question is why wouldn't WE be willing to pay him that much, given our well-documented need for a quality HBF. Unless it's about him wanting to go home to Melbourne, in which case I could understand it. But if it's a money thing, I think we should be doing everything we can to retain him.

IMO Lloyd's kicking ability is limited. He simply isn't a good enough offensive kick, IMO. As a result of the limitations of kicking IMO he doesn't run with the ball with any great effectiveness. When there is space in front of him sure he can take off. When an opposition defense is set up in front of him he doesn't run the ball with any great effectiveness.

In Rugby & League you have halves that either catch and pass or run to the defense then make their play. The best halves have always been the ones that run to the defense line then make their play. Lloyd is a catch & pass player.
It is much easier to defend a catch & pass player.

 

[caesar88]

IMO Lloyd's kicking ability is limited. He simply isn't a good enough offensive kick, IMO. As a result of the limitations of kicking IMO he doesn't run with the ball with any great effectiveness. When there is space in front of him sure he can take off. When an opposition defense is set up in front of him he doesn't run the ball with any great effectiveness.

In Rugby & League you have halves that either catch and pass or run to the defense then make their play. The best halves have always been the ones that run to the defense line then make their play. Lloyd is a catch & pass player.
It is much easier to defend a catch & pass player.

We've been over the kicking which is the most mind-numbing topic I've seen on this board. As for Lloyd being a catch & pass player, while I don't dispute that's what he is best at, that is just as valuable and crucial to our team as somebody who can break a line, or can bomb it 70m long. Having that composed, organised head in traffic who knows when to slow the passage down or make a play happen is so important and IMO Lloyd is best at it.

But anyway I'm aware I'm in the minority with how highly I rate Lloyd. The vehement opposition when Lloyd is praised tells me that, like he's the first player ever to not be perfect at football

 

[scaryness]

I have no doubt Lloyd would tackle more if he was on the ball more. Playing a HBF/Nick Smith kind of role doesn't exactly require a lot of contested work.

Exactly why he should not command a 1st round draft pick.

He plays the easiest position on the ground and still has no stand out attribites among HBF players. He doesnt have elite speed, he is not very aggressive with the ball, his defensive work is just ok, his kicking is good but as mentioned he doesn't threaten. It's not surprising he has so many dispodals when he is always in space and our game plan dictates the ball towards his side of the ground all game long.

Never got the Lloyd hype that's handed around, if he is commanding big money move him on and get Stoddart in.

Would only keep Lloyd if they moved him up the ground, he needs to be delivering inside 50 (which he is very good at) rather than chipping through defensive 50.

 

[Number37]

We've been over the kicking which is the most mind-numbing topic I've seen on this board. As for Lloyd being a catch & pass player, while I don't dispute that's what he is best at, that is just as valuable and crucial to our team as somebody who can break a line, or can bomb it 70m long. Having that composed, organised head in traffic who knows when to slow the passage down or make a play happen is so important and IMO Lloyd is best at it.

But anyway I'm aware I'm in the minority with how highly I rate Lloyd. The vehement opposition when Lloyd is praised tells me that, like he's the first player ever to not be perfect at football

I have repeatedly acknowledged that what Lloyd brings to the team is important I just don't agree that it is irreplaceable. IMO we can have the best of both worlds with the right player.
Perhaps Lloyd can further develop his game. It is just an opinion. I am not making the selection or list management decisions.

 

[caesar88]

Exactly why he should not command a 1st round draft pick.

He plays the easiest position on the ground and still has no stand out attribites among HBF players. He doesnt have elite speed, he is not very aggressive with the ball, his defensive work is just ok, his kicking is good but as mentioned he doesn't threaten. It's not surprising he has so many dispodals when he is always in space and our game plan dictates the ball towards his side of the ground all game long.

Never got the Lloyd hype that's handed around, if he is commanding big money move him on and get Stoddart in.

Would only keep Lloyd if they moved him up the ground, he needs to be delivering inside 50 (which he is very good at) rather than chipping through defensive 50.

I mean I disagree with most of what you said. Some rate him, others don't. But I'm not gonna repeat myself on why I do.

 

[Tesla Tenet]

I think that Punts comment is much closer to the facts than C88.

Now way is Lloyd good in traffic and I think his decision/kicking is over rated. He also lacks penetration in his kicking.

Go back and watch the game against the Dogs at the scg if we are talking 2016 when he shat and kicked it straight up in the air with stuff all time to go

Headless chook

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[Jewelsbon]

I think that Punts comment is much closer to the facts than C88.

Now way is Lloyd good in traffic and I think his decision/kicking is over rated. He also lacks penetration in his kicking.

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Well for the record I'm the other way and agree with Caesar, Lloyd is one of our most important players and I think the coaching staff view him likewise.
Its really amazing how we can all watch the same thing but view it completely differently.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Ling & Stoddart.

Mills perhaps but those guys are WAY green. It's taken Lloydy 100 games to get to his current skill level. Macca has 300+. These are not insignificant numbers. Vision can be taught a bit but decision-making at the speed of light? Not so much.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Everyone thought Mitchell was worth a top 10 pick.
Lloyd, like Mitchell & Lever & Murray is worth what someone is willing to pay.

I can't see any team that is (1) desperate for a player with his skill set or (2) Willing to cough up a first rounder for him.
If someone is willing to pay him >$600k they would probably give up a first rounder for him.
I don't think anyone is willing to pay him that much & therefore I don't think he would go for a first rounder.

Murray dropped by the Pies this week. Maybe we ain't as dim as we sim!