Roast The SANFL Development Graveyard: Where careers go to die

[Econopower]

I'd love to do a full review of our list management over the last period, to confirm this, but definitely feels like we've made some mistakes and are feeling it. A lot of good has been done, but also a few bad moves.

RIght now if our squad was holding Dougal and Ladhams, they'd both be best 22, both are entering their prime years, and we wouldn't have a squad filled with so many speculative late draft pick kids. We gave Ladhams away and Dougal I'm pretty sure we got Williams for who still looks unlikely to make it long term.

We've also cut too hard in our delistings in last few years. It seems like a great idea to just cut those that won't make the grade, but you have to do it with balance. Picking up too many kids, with shitty deep draft picks does not end well. To develop they need to be playing in a more competitive side where they are given the opportunity to excel in the contest. Instead the weak lineup we have exposes our better players to needing to lift to a level they just aren't capable of.

Jackson - 2021 4th round pick, unlikely to ever play AFL and would be playing reserves for North.
Scully - A 2022 4th round KPP, extremely raw, would be playing SANFL reserves if lucky at West.
McCallum - Our highest pick of the developing crop, a semi-tall, bit O'Shea or Pettigrew like, that was end of 2nd round, and still is years away from AFL. Would play reserves elsewhere, maybe senior footy.
Marshall - Literally the last pick in the 2022 draft. Would be playing reserves at best at the Panthers.
Visentini - 2021 4th round pick, a good kid, but years away from AFL. Certainly SANFL reserves and even senior capable.
Barkla - Cat B rookie, would be lucky to be playing reserves at the Eagles.

So we have 6 players in our side weekly that are literally a liability right now. Promising futures or not, we're carrying a third of a team that's not good enough. That are super deep, useless picks that we've filled out list with.

On top of that, today we fielded 3 ruckmen. None of which contain the mobility to play any role other than ruck effectively.

Then on top of that we Nick Moore who is a good trier, but lacks polish, then we have an array of amateur league players filling gaps. Francou and Hagan are 18 year old kids that weren't drafted, they're not even deep draft, they weren't drafted.

So now we're talking at least 8 super young, largely ineffectual kids, that are in no way up to the level and ultimately are bringing the side down.

Our best players are Burgoyne, Mead, Bonner and Dumont. 2 of those again juniors.

Then you have Sinn who just doesn't seem to be coming on, Lachie Jones who just desperately needs some continuity in a position, and Clurey who is cooked now.

We've got issues everywhere because our list balance is absolutely ****ed. We have ok immediate depth, but way too many deep draft picks filling the list.

We CANT afford to keep going to the draft and picking up a stack of pick 50 players, because they won't develop in this environment. We desperately need to pick up some free agents, and/or find some mature age players worth a crack. We certainly can't afford to cut so deep when again our first pick looks like it'll be high 30s.

Fantastic post

 

[RossFC]

I wonder who the coach was that would taken the SANFL head coach role if we joined the VFL.

 

[dirty2]

1. Alberton is rotten from Koch ken all the way down.

2. Snafl is s**t league who will screw them selves over just so they can screw us. Jump ship. Go to the AFL reserve's/VFL what ever it's called.

 

[1954]

They treat them as trial games and if you play poorly there is no way you are getting dropped or being replaced by a top up player.

Right on the money, the old system where the players were all over the place with different clubs definitely had its faults, but if a player was seen as B grade level at the club he was aligned to that was where he played until he proved himself good enough to make their senior team.

I suspect at least 6 of the Power listed players in Maggie jumpers yesterday would have been playing reserves at other sanfl clubs, and as you suggest they know they won't get dropped because there is no comp to drop them to, so too many of them either play as individuals in the hope of being noticed for an AFL call up, or just go through the motions because either they are not ready for the top level, or are past being considered for it.

A great fuss was made about One Club improving the chances of the Power winning flags in the AFL, but so far there has been zero evidence of that, and instead 150 years of Maggie history has been flushed down the sh*tter, and what was described by Kevin Sheedy as the best recruiting area in Australia ( the west coast of SA ) was given to the ******* deadlegs!

The campaigners in charge have done no more than turn the Power into a middling thereabouts every now and then club, and they destroyed the Maggies in the process!

 

[tribey]

Losing three grand finals to our three biggest rivals probably wiped the Magpies culture away. Two of them we really should have won.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

The Sturt one was bizarre.

I was waiting for the coach (was it Cornes?) to just put all his prime movers in the engine room and overwhelm them with their massive talent and fitness advantage, and instead there seemed to be a rigid adherence to the putrid gameplan that had cratered in every big moment at AFL level.



5 behinds in a half of football with a midfield of Matthew Lobbe, Willem Drew, Brendon Ah Chee, Will Snelling, Steve Summerton, Joe Atley;

With Brett Eddy, Todd Marshall, Jake Neade and Aidyn Johnson up front;

And Dougal Howard, Logan Austin, Jarrod Leinert, Dimitri Toumpas and Riley Bonner down back.

Either they were insanely committed to rigidly using the Magpies as a pure reserves outfit — even on GF day — or the club tried its best to throw the game so as not to invite even stricter ‘NO AFL IN SNAFFLE’ conditions.

 

[edgie]

And Brett Eddy

Brett Eddy

Age

34

Ht

193cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

1.7

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.0

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

1.7

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

s**t his pants in the last minute which could have won it (not that that should have been necessary)

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It is another example that if the club was well managed it would be a strength not a weakness.

 

[tribey]

And Brett Eddy s**t his pants in the last minute which could have won it (not that that should have been necessary)

Played like he’d already been told he was cut. Another masterstroke of player management.

 

[Nemisis]

Blaming the Snafle for our dismal performances is a cop out. Have a look across the road. Crows will probably win the SANFL flag this year.
We have possibly the weakest squad after our first 25 in the league.
Our list management has been awful apart from the obvious first round selections.
We would get smashed in the VFL.

 

[rogerjames]

Our SANFL team is uncompetitive trash. Not only is it losing team with a losing culture, it also is evidently a horrible place to develop both young and mature players.

On paper I just can’t believe this team is wooden spoon worthy. There is something more going on here - and over the previous two years - that has impacted the ability of this team to perform. Dumont, Bonner, Mead, Jones, Hayes, Lycett, Clurey. These guys are seasoned AFL professionals. And week-in, week-out they are made to look like amateurs by brick-layers, accountants and marriage celebrants. They are made to look slow, soft and unskilful.

It is a ******* joke. It is a disgrace. And no one is held accountable. Goldsack, one of the chief architects of this s**t show, was promoted. Cam Sutcliffe who, must be the worst Port Adelaide captain ever, was reappointed. The show goes on and the club suffers.

Is it strategy? Is it standards and behaviours? Is it training throughout the week and off season? I don’t know - but what I do know is that this level of ineptitude is not conducive to a successful football club.

And the actual performance is not even the worst part. The development cliff is approaching and the SANFL side being what it is has dried up the pipeline of new and emerging players.

Over the past 3 years I can’t think of one young player in our team who has made serious strides and improvement playing in the SANFL team. Even enormously talented players, like Bergman, are terrible at this level when it should be the case that these guys dominate. In Bergman’s case, it wasn’t until he returned to the AFL that he actually started to get back on track.

Players who have parts of their game that they need to improve on make zero progress. Lachie Jones is still a fumbler and bumbler at the lower level. Georgiades still panics. Jackson still gets thrown around like a ragdoll.

In fact, regression is more common than development. Sam Hayes has literally regressed. Has literally got worse from like age 20 to age 23. He used to be a reliable hit out dominant, goal kicking and marking ruckman. Now he regularly gets beat up by the Sam Baulderstones of the world whilst we have no options for ruck at AFL level.

And that’s not to even mention playing guys out of position and in random positions. Why is Teakle playing fullback if you see him as your next up ruck man. Why!?

Back in 2017-2019 we had a competitive side and you could actually see players get better and build AFL skills. The Dan Houstons, Dougal Howards, Darcy Byrne Jones, Kane Farrells of the world. Nowadays I would happily delist everyone in the SANFL team. I would replace them all with Sturt players or Norwood players - other SANFL teams genuinely appear to have more AFL ready players.

The Crows SANFL team is another good example. I don’t think they have much more talent in that team then we do but like 100000x better and their players transition to AFL football much easier.

We desperately need to solve this issue. I believe it is the biggest issue facing the club at the moment. And that starts with ******* off most of the staff involved with the SANFL side and starting again.

Agree 100%. It's crucial the club firstly recognises this & secondly fixes it asap. Too many former Port players involved in the coaching for my liking. We need outside experience with proven success who will shake things up.

 

[rogerjames]

Giving cushy development jobs to Lobbe and Hartlett who failed to develop their own careers to maximum potential doesn't help

So true. Like why have they earned that right. Both players totally underachieved in their Afl careers.

 

[1954]

Played like he’d already been told he was cut. Another masterstroke of player management.

Agreed rubbish player management at its absolute worst, give a bloke some extra incentive by telling him he is playing for a contract, or better still say nothing so he's not under any unnecessary pressure had to be a million x better than just cutting his legs out from under him.

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

The mimicry of the turgid game plan (? what is that ?)has to be abandoned, and a concentration on winning adopted.
It needs some harder men to coach the team. Not necessarily AFL former players, especially if we dont have the cash to pay them.
I mean guys like the Roy Laird who coached out at Central for multiple premierships.

 

[Portmagpies36]

The Sturt one was bizarre.

I was waiting for the coach (was it Cornes?) to just put all his prime movers in the engine room and overwhelm them with their massive talent and fitness advantage, and instead there seemed to be a rigid adherence to the putrid gameplan that had cratered in every big moment at AFL level.

View attachment 1668784

5 behinds in a half of football with a midfield of Matthew Lobbe, Willem Drew, Brendon Ah Chee, Will Snelling, Steve Summerton, Joe Atley;

With Brett Eddy, Todd Marshall, Jake Neade and Aidyn Johnson up front;

And Dougal Howard, Logan Austin, Jarrod Leinert, Dimitri Toumpas and Riley Bonner down back.

Either they were insanely committed to rigidly using the Magpies as a pure reserves outfit — even on GF day — or the club tried its best to throw the game so as not to invite even stricter ‘NO AFL IN SNAFFLE’ conditions.

3 goals at 3/4 time that’s the shite style of football we are told to play, no risk no attacking no success

 

[Portmagpies36]

And Brett Eddy s**t his pants in the last minute which could have won it (not that that should have been necessary)

Don’t remind me, Toumpas handballed to him and under no pressure mis kicked the ball.

 

[NickFlips]

My old man and I have been having a discussion for the last few years around why we continue to dip into the draft and pick 18 year olds who don't develop when we could go after the mature age guys that are beating them every week in the SANFL.

I understand that there's benefits in taking 18 year olds with early round selections (see Rozee, Butters, Duursma) but at pick 55 you're just praying for another once in a lifetime Robbie Gray

9

Robbie Gray

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

13.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

aren't you? Why not select a 24 year old who has shown a bit in the state leagues?

Serious question, and I'll note here at the end, usually I've been on the "stick to picking the youth" side of the argument but my Dad and the constant losses are rapidly changing my opinion.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

Apart from our best 5-6 players - our whole squad is below average. There is a big, big cliff we are going to fall off soon. Going to be a disaster of epic proportions.

 

[Playthekids76]

Giving cushy development jobs to Lobbe and Hartlett who failed to develop their own careers to maximum potential doesn't help

Probably the post of the year. Ive been saying it for some time, our development coaches are all ex players with zero experience. Its jobs for the boys and ex players that wont challenge Hinkley or Davies. Not all ex AFL players make good coaches!! We should be targeting the top underage coaches as most players running around in the development side are kids.

Also our top up players come in with limited understanding of the AFL game plan. so, what happens? The AFL players set up for scenarios, run to areas where IF they were playing afl they know the ball would go. BUT IT doesn't. It's not surprising most listed players perform poorly in the sanfl.

I think most underestimate the quality of the opposition also. Sturt are a well drilled side and WELL coached!

West Adelaide will beat us this week, they have talented kids and a very good development coach.

 

[Playthekids76]

Blaming the Snafle for our dismal performances is a cop out. Have a look across the road. Crows will probably win the SANFL flag this year.
We have possibly the weakest squad after our first 25 in the league.
Our list management has been awful apart from the obvious first round selections.
We would get smashed in the VFL.

Agree 100%

We should be looking at what the Crows do with their top ups. Fact is they target ex league or hi end armature players. They also train with the AFL side to learn their structures. Probably helps also when they have a hi end coach like Godden.

 

[Jonts]

SAnFL plays more different to AFL than the VFL does to AFL

Every year we stay in the SANFL is to our detriment

 

[Powerade 08]

They also train with the AFL side to learn their structures.

Is that true? Do we not do this because of $$$?

 

[Playthekids76]

None of them give a s**t about playing for the Magpies.

There was a passage of play in the second half where Bonner read the play well enough to sprint from 20 metres away and intercept a Sturt pass, gather the loose ball under pressure, and then hit up a Port player in the pocket for a shot on goal. Nobody slapped him on the back, nobody even said well done. It was just bizarre.

Shows the care factor from the players is zero. This is driven from the top which again is an massive slap on Hinkley and his so called development coaches!!

 

[agmsy]

My old man and I have been having a discussion for the last few years around why we continue to dip into the draft and pick 18 year olds who don't develop when we could go after the mature age guys that are beating them every week in the SANFL.

I understand that there's benefits in taking 18 year olds with early round selections (see Rozee, Butters, Duursma) but at pick 55 you're just praying for another once in a lifetime Robbie Gray aren't you? Why not select a 24 year old who has shown a bit in the state leagues?

Serious question, and I'll note here at the end, usually I've been on the "stick to picking the youth" side of the argument but my Dad and the constant losses are rapidly changing my opinion.

In no particular order:

• A 24-year-old showing a bit in the state leagues has probably shown about everything he's ever going to show. There's not much development or improvement left.
• A reasonable indication that these players are not worth the investment of picks or list spots or cap space is that other AFL clubs seldom come sniffing. The orthodoxy could be wrong (do we know if AFL scouts and recruiters are any better than their baseball counterparts?), but it seems more likely that others have had a look and decided "nah".
• Good enough to beat an 18/19/20-year-old in the state leagues does not mean good enough to be of use at AFL level. Since the game is (supposed to be) about finding players who can improve our AFL side, the guys beating our kids in the SANFL are probably most valuable as a measuring stick for our talent and development system (i.e., if you're getting beaten it's because we're not developing you properly or because you're not up to it).

 

[Macca19]

In no particular order:

• A 24-year-old showing a bit in the state leagues has probably shown about everything he's ever going to show. There's not much development or improvement left.
• A reasonable indication that these players are not worth the investment of picks or list spots or cap space is that other AFL clubs seldom come sniffing. The orthodoxy could be wrong (do we know if AFL scouts and recruiters are any better than their baseball counterparts?), but it seems more likely that others have had a look and decided "nah".
• Good enough to beat an 18/19/20-year-old in the state leagues does not mean good enough to be of use at AFL level. Since the game is (supposed to be) about finding players who can improve our AFL side, the guys beating our kids in the SANFL are probably most valuable as a measuring stick for our talent and development system (i.e., if you're getting beaten it's because we're not developing you properly or because you're not up to it).

Not to mention that quite often the 24yo beating up on our kids is a player that was in the afl system and failed to begin with

 

[Coobk001]

Worth noting that in the first 3 rounds we've likely played what will be the SANFL top 3 come the end of the year too. As bad as we've been at times and as hamstrung as we are, the last couple results haven't been all that bad considering.