List Mgmt. Trade/Draft Callback: 2017 first round pick out for an extra 2016 pick

Butters Made Me Do It

secretly Portia, ssh
Mar 16, 2019
2,399
12,572
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Sack Hinkleys
OUT: 2016 1st (#11 Oliver Florent), 2016 3rd (#48 Darcy Cameron), 2016 4th (#62 Matthew Signorello), 2017 1st (#12 Darcy Fogarty)

IN: 2016 1sts (#16 Todd Marshall, #18 Sam Powell-Pepper), 2016 3rds (#31 Joe Atley, #32 Willem Drew)

How are we feeling about this now?
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

chiwigi

I’ll make tears from your Wines.
Apr 9, 2009
16,940
29,246
Port Adelaide Zone
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
OUT: 2016 1st (#11 Oliver Florent), 2016 3rd (#48 Darcy Cameron), 2016 4th (#62 Matthew Signorello), 2017 1st (#12 Darcy Fogarty)

IN: 2016 1sts (#16 Todd Marshall, #18 Sam Powell-Pepper), 2017 3rds (#31 Joe Atley, #32 Willem Drew)

How are we feeling about this now?
Pretty good!

SPP and Drew are very good players.

Atley and Marshall could be anything. Though I'm not so big on the Marshall wagon. He will make or break that deal.
 

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
Feb 23, 2008
50,497
123,580
SA
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Toronto Raptors
OUT: 2016 1st (#11 Oliver Florent), 2016 3rd (#48 Darcy Cameron), 2016 4th (#62 Matthew Signorello), 2017 1st (#12 Darcy Fogarty)

IN: 2016 1sts (#16 Todd Marshall, #18 Sam Powell-Pepper), 2016 3rds (#31 Joe Atley, #32 Willem Drew)

How are we feeling about this now?
Lining up the players we got versus the players drafted at the picks we traded out, I'm happy.

Unfortunately it's a bit of a pointless exercise though, because if the trades weren't made we have no idea who would've gone at those same picks, or even if the future picks themselves would've landed at the same points in the draft. The only way to truly compare the trades would be to jump into a time machine and go to an alternate reality where we didn't make them.
 

It Just Is

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2012
6,366
10,404
On cloud 9
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Can suck it!
Doesn’t hurt that we backed up 2017 with this draft haul from late picks:
47 - Sam Hays
51 - Kane Farrell
58 - Jake Patmore
60 - Joel Garner

Overall, a very sharp bit of work by our recruiting team. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they identified a year out that the 2017 draft had great depth and they would find a few good ones with picks around 50.
 

TheFVK

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 21, 2008
6,311
20,924
Amsterdam
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Stoke City
Since this thread was timed for a round when they were all outside our 22 I'm assuming the intention was to highlight the trade's folly.

Here's pick 11 - 23 of the 2016 AFL draft:

11 Oliver Florent
12 Jy Simpkin
13 Dan Venables
14 Harry Perryman
15 Jordan Gallucci
16 Todd Marshall
17 Jarrod Berry
18 SPP
19 Tim English
20 Isaac Cumming
21 Will Haywayd
22 Jordan Ridley
23 Alex Witherden

I reckon you could just about reverse that order and it would still look reasonable; the second half of that first round was very even; our list managers identified it as such and traded accordingly.

Our trading and drafting has been on point these last few years and this is another example.

Good trade, would do again. Now over to the coaching staff to develop the considerable talent they've been gifted.
 

Chrizzt

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
7,537
14,703
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
That 2016 pick 11 could have been Florent or Simpkin - both of which would look nice in our team, ideally displacing SGray.

I'm not convinced Cameron will be better than Ladhams or Hayes, and we likely would still have made the play for Lycett even if we had Cameron - so Cameron himself is a bit of a non-event for us. There wasn't really anyone taken after Cameron that I feel we missed out on either, so pick 48 we haven't missed.

2017 pick 12 could have been Higgins, but we also could have taken a punt on Fogarty too, which is looking like a bust. So at this stage not looking like a huge missed opportunity.

In the end, even if one of Drew or Atley is a bust, it's the fact that we got the extra pick to increase the likelihood of picking a good player at that end of the draft, i.e. if we only had pick 31 we'd have to choose between Atley and Drew. Similar with picks 16 and 18 - even if Marshall is a bust (and I'm leaning to think he will be) it was still a risk well worth taking given the 3 other good picks we had.

Regardless if one of the players we "could have" had turns out to be an absolute jet, I still think we got it right at the time.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
Feb 23, 2008
50,497
123,580
SA
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Toronto Raptors
Schulzenfest ‘You can never question drafting decisions because butterfly effect’ is a Janus-esque argument
Didn't say you can't question them, just said that you can't make a perfect comparison. As of right now, if you offered me the chance to go back and reverse the trade, I wouldn't. Especially considering that I would've quite happily taken Sam Hayes with #12 anyway and he somehow slid all the way to #47.
 

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
Feb 23, 2008
50,497
123,580
SA
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Toronto Raptors
Who do you think didn’t know that?
The person who included the names of the players taken with those other picks in the OP?

There's no real reason to include the likes of Florent and Fogarty in your OP. They were never Port Adelaide players. We didn't lose them, because we never had them. The question really only boils down to '#11, #12, #48 and #66 for SPP, Marshall, Atley and Drew'. And on balance I'd still take it, even if SPP and Marshall are in down periods right now.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

secretly Portia, ssh
Mar 16, 2019
2,399
12,572
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Sack Hinkleys
The person who included the names of the players taken with those other picks in the OP?

There's no real reason to include the likes of Florent and Fogarty in your OP.
I mean there is, because I bet you the first thing most people who replied to this did is pull up the list of draftees from those years and snapshot the players around the picks that I helpfully numbered and named for easy reference on quality available around those picks, instead of us each spending fifteen minutes sifting through trade records to work out exactly what we gave up.

The question really only boils down to '#11, #12, #48 and #66 for SPP, Marshall, Atley and Drew'
If that was all the info I put in the OP, would that have been even remotely helpful for decision making? You didn’t even split them by draft year.

Lots of people ready to ascribe sinister motives to me here (I haven’t been waiting to ‘time’ this, it came from me realising my dissatisfaction with SPP) Its a discussion post, I actually wanted some sincere opinions, not overly defensive takes. If I thought this question had a clear yes/no I would’ve opened with it. I love doing that s**t.
 

Janus

Dominus Ex Machina
Sep 9, 2007
19,358
48,059
Portland, Oregon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys, Chicago Bulls
Every day of the week. The 2017 draft was s**t.

Powell-Pepper and Marshall are two kids playing roles that require a bit of time to grow into.

I'll take it one step further - I'd do similar this year and trade out our 2020 first round pick to get another first rounder this year, because the 2020 draft will be worse than the 2017 draft.
 

rumoursofwinter

Premiership Player
Nov 7, 2008
3,376
3,767
melbourne
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Good trade is good. We seem to be able to judge the depth of drafts well.

I think we were expecting parfitt to be available with 32, 33.

32 and 33 is worth 1147 points.

pick 14 is 1161. I reckon a top 20 pick is worth more than 32, 33.
 

Long live PAFC

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2013
1,869
1,616
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Yup. No matter which way you look at it.

Picks for picks - 2 x 1st, 3rd, 4th for 2 x 1sts, 2 x 2nds.

Direct player comparison. Ie as you outlined.

Getting out of a crap draft and into a better draft.

Those two drafts in isolation or when placed alongside what we did before and since.

Our drafting since 2012 has been quite strong with a lot of games and talent from lower picks. Trading more debatable.
 

El_Scorcho

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2007
25,143
56,922
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Aston Villa, San Antonio Spurs
A really good piece of business overall. I absolutely wouldn't reverse it, not even close.

I'm not a close draft watcher, but I've been really impressed with our drafting over the last 4 years.
 

Kiss from a Rozee

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2018
2,232
3,692
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I reckon we would have taken SPP at pick 11. Leaving the trades more like this.

OUT: 2016 3rd (#48 Darcy Cameron), 2016 4th (#62 Matthew Signorello), 2017 1st (#12 Darcy Fogarty)

IN: 2016 1st (#16 Todd Marshall), 2016 3rds (#31 Joe Atley, #32 Willem Drew)


Pretty amazing really.

That said maybe we do take someone else at #11 maybe even Marshall. I reckon we were always picking Sam based on what was said after the draft though.
 

ctpower

All Australian
Sep 27, 2005
793
509
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide
OUT: 2016 1st (#11 Oliver Florent), 2016 3rd (#48 Darcy Cameron), 2016 4th (#62 Matthew Signorello), 2017 1st (#12 Darcy Fogarty)

IN: 2016 1sts (#16 Todd Marshall, #18 Sam Powell-Pepper), 2016 3rds (#31 Joe Atley, #32 Willem Drew)

How are we feeling about this now?
I’ve often thought of this trade.
The issue I had at the time was the drafting of Todd Marshall instead of another mid.
It was a risk and I’m not convinced Marshall will make it. In fact I don’t think he will.
I’m not a fan of SPP. He’s a dreadful kick and for a first rounder I expect better skills.
Drew is actually the best player of the lot and I think by year end he’ll put that debate beyond doubt.

There’s still hope for Joe Atley it’s just a pity we have a dud coach. If you wanted to play a tagger in the second half of the year then give Atley an opportunity instead of giving Sutcliffe a game.
 
Top Bottom