VFL Game Day VFL Round 4: Essendon vs Port Melbourne (62-89 loss)

[Kakkle]

I heard Clark was really good and that we have a good midfield crop coming through. Our coaches are impressed with Clark and Mutch

Really good in what sense? I watched him closely, he got a lot of the ball essentially to no effect. No value to his disposals.

 

[Kakkle]

Also there was some dead set ordinary VFL players out there today, Luxford, Uysal, Ogden & Marksew in particular. Oof.

 

[Towno78]

It's easy to deny but if you take the time and analyse other lists, that's how you determine where your depth ranks.

Most lists don't have more than two ready rucks, WCE, Geelong the exceptions. The Dees lost two and had to Pederson who is 193cm in there and I'd take Smack before Spencer as well. Along with Archie Smith, Brooksby, O'Brien, Soldo, Phillips, Pittonet, Naismith, Lobbe, Clarke, Holmes, Simpson, Cox probably more too.

Name the fourth talls on lists that are better than Hartley.

Again most lists don't have more than three-four small forwards on their lists, in addition to yours we have Green, Colyer and Howlett (plus Zaharakis off a HFF this year) not great players by any stretch, but depth isn't to reference talent. It's to say if every team had injuries how far could you cover their position with suitable players.

Our depth is very good, but if you don't have elite players putting consistent performances, your role players will struggle regardless of how capable they are.

"Depth isn't to reference talent"!?
* me.

 

[Laverde2Smack]

Da **** we had a 20 point lead and lost? Jesus.

We were kicking with a 5 goal breeze in the first quarter.

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[Laverde2Smack]

Really good in what sense? I watched him closely, he got a lot of the ball essentially to no effect. No value to his disposals.

Yeah I think they are just trying to give him a bit of confidence with that match report. He had no effect at all. In contrast the Port insiders used the ball much better, giving separation with clean hands.

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[Laverde2Smack]

Also there was some dead set ordinary VFL players out there today, Luxford, Uysal, Ogden & Marksew in particular. Oof.

Who was the tall kid in defence? He looked alright.

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[Kakkle]

Yeah I think they are just trying to give him a bit of confidence with that match report. He had no effect at all. In contrast the Port insiders used the ball much better, giving separation with clean hands.

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I pay very little attention to 'offical' match reports. The VFL site has Begley listed in the bests Also I've learned to not pay too much attention to VFL stats, seems to be a lot of guess work at times.

 

[Kakkle]

Who was the tall kid in defence? He looked alright.

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Mat Darby.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

"Depth isn't to reference talent"!?
**** me.

Or you know dont be pedantic...

Which is deeper?

Cyril, Poppy, Bruest or Clay Smith, Dunkley, McClean, Dickson, Picken.

The Hawks were arguably the best 3, yet if one got injured they had no genuine replacement. No depth. Having less talented players who can still perform a specific role is depth. That is what I meant by talent has no reference to depth.

 

[60sbomber]

Just as a matter of interest, we had 5 players fit this week who were not picked in either team. Watson, McGrath, McNiece and Langford were all rested and Howlett is the travelling emergency for tomorrow.
Our VFL team could have been considerably stronger.

 

[Towno78]

Or you know dont be pedantic...

Which is deeper?

Cyril, Poppy, Bruest or Clay Smith, Dunkley, McClean, Dickson, Picken.

The Hawks were arguably the best 3, yet if one got injured they had no genuine replacement. No depth. Having less talented players who can still perform a specific role is depth. That is what I meant by talent has no reference to depth.

When you said, "depth isn't to reference talent" were you talking about the talent of the best 22 players or the replacements?

 

[Killer_Mike]

To add to that the team out there today is a great deal different to the one that played last year.

It's a team sport and clearly they are still learning to play as a team. Later in the year they should be considerably better.

Just like the senior team.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

When you said, "depth isn't to reference talent" were you talking about the talent of the best 22 players or the replacements?

I get that it's a poorly worded sentence, I was watching two games of footy at the same time of writing.

Obviously you want your best 22 players to be as talented as possible but what I deem to be depth is anyone who can perform a desired role to a minimum standard and those players don't necessarily have to be that talented.

 

[Lore]

I pay very little attention to 'offical' match reports. The VFL site has Begley listed in the bests Also I've learned to not pay too much attention to VFL stats, seems to be a lot of guess work at times.

That's for sure. I took the time to read the VFL report last week or the week before, won't be wasting my time on that again. Seem to get a better idea of what's going on just reading what a few posters have to say on here. That's saying something tbh.

 

[efcboy]

4 games into the season.

Hartley dominated VFL for 2 years
Uysal dominated as an inside midfielder in a s**t side for 4 years.
Younan was a top 10 player in a s**t side for 6 years.

We're 1-3, yeah. 2 years ago where we finished top 4 we were 2-3 I'm fairly sure (and were 2 kicks off a GF where the side we lost to won the GF by 12 goals). We have a good fixture coming up as well, Geelong and Richmond, two sides we rarely lose to in the VFL and Coburg as well. I'll back my judgement and we'll see where we're at at the end of the season.

Also need to take into consideration the afl team has turned over a big number of players resting players the last two weeks in addition to the carry over emergencies. This has meant about half the VFL team we had playing against Collingwood a fortnight ago isn't there anymore.

I saw this coming and actually took advantage of it financially. Last week Werribee opened up at odds of 3.50 - I could see this was overs given the VFL team was going to lose players to the afl side.

 

[tha Freak]

Also there was some dead set ordinary VFL players out there today, Luxford, Uysal, Ogden & Marksew in particular. Oof.

Ogden is injured, hasn't played yet.

 

[Kakkle]

Ogden is injured, hasn't played yet.

Oh really? Someone else wearing 68 then.

 

[yaco55]

VFL team has so far been disappointing for a team touted as a premiership contender - Still 14 games to find form.

 

[tha Freak]

Oh really? Someone else wearing 68 then.

Yep, not sure who had 68, wasn't Ogden.

 

[60sbomber]

To add to that the team out there today is a great deal different to the one that played last year.

It's a team sport and clearly they are still learning to play as a team. Later in the year they should be considerably better.

Just like the senior team.

I've seen two games live - Sandy and Port. In both games we had an inferior "team style" (for lack of a better expression). What I mean is that the opposition were better on both days at doing the team things, such as giving off the extra handball or two to extricate the ball from a contested situation before kicking, and crowding the opposition forward line and breaking into space in transition.
Against Sandy we spent the whole 2nd quarter unable to get the ball out of defence no matter how many times we crossed the ground, and at times Sandy went coast to coast with good precise leading and passing. These are maybe team things, or maybe they are skills (kicking) and player awareness. Either way, both times we looked like we could win enough contests for the ball, but couldn't use it as well as the opposition.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I've seen two games live - Sandy and Port. In both games we had an inferior "team style" (for lack of a better expression). What I mean is that the opposition were better on both days at doing the team things, such as giving off the extra handball or two to extricate the ball from a contested situation before kicking, and crowding the opposition forward line and breaking into space in transition.
Against Sandy we spent the whole 2nd quarter unable to get the ball out of defence no matter how many times we crossed the ground, and at times Sandy went coast to coast with good precise leading and passing. These are maybe team things, or maybe they are skills (kicking) and player awareness. Either way, both times we looked like we could win enough contests for the ball, but couldn't use it as well as the opposition.

I was at the Sandy game and I was also at the Pies game along with some pre-season games and all I've seen is terrible inconsistencies just as I have in the seniors.

Yes, their is some skill errors but also it's an indication of a team that hasn't played much footy together.

When you play a lot of footy together your instincts take over and everything tends to work a lot better.

When you have indecision and under opposition pressure you tend to make more errors.

I think the other issue is peoples expectations. You read a couple of comments about how we are a chance for the flag and you will always leave yourself open for disappointment. Our best footy at both levels is good but just need to work on being consistent and and hopefully that comes in time to make the finals.

 

[Eleven 38]

People are allowed to be disappointed. And honestly should be. If your not, your accepting mediocrity. We went to the bottom of the ladder in 2006. And really haven't done anything since.

Meanwhile the bulldogs have been to the bottom, made 3 prelims in a row, went to the bottom again and have now won a flag I'm that time.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Yep, the last 15 years for the club has been disappointing.

Not sure what that has to with the current state of the club though because its gone through a significant transformation.

Only 6 clubs have won the premiership since 2006 so we aren't alone.

If you honestly believe this team can win the flag this year then you are far more optimistic than even I am!

 

[Vindicater]

Once the AFL team settles the VFL team will as well.

This is a rebuilding year still for the club that has been interrupted by the fact we had to give the ASADA boys another year to save face. Next year will see a fresh new VFL team with alot of AFL talent running through it.

I expect to see the AFL team play finals next season and the VFL team contend for the premiership.

 

[bombreys]

It's easy to deny but if you take the time and analyse other lists, that's how you determine where your depth ranks.

Most lists don't have more than two ready rucks, WCE, Geelong the exceptions. The Dees lost two and had to Pederson who is 193cm in there and I'd take Smack before Spencer as well. Along with Archie Smith, Brooksby, O'Brien, Soldo, Phillips, Pittonet, Naismith, Lobbe, Clarke, Holmes, Simpson, Cox probably more too.

Name the fourth talls on lists that are better than Hartley.

Again most lists don't have more than three-four small forwards on their lists, in addition to yours we have Green, Colyer and Howlett (plus Zaharakis off a HFF this year) not great players by any stretch, but depth isn't to reference talent. It's to say if every team had injuries how far could you cover their position with suitable players.

Our depth is very good, but if you don't have elite players putting consistent performances, your role players will struggle regardless of how capable they are.

I just don't agree.

I'd take most of those guys ahead of McKernan. You really think McKernan is a better ruckman than Naismith?

Hartley - played as our second key back and got annihilated by Shane Kirsten. Just going off the teams that played the first few games of the round - Saints have Geary, GWS have Haynes (among others), North have Hansen, Adelaide have Lever/Otten.

I just think you're overrating the list. If it was that deep, we'd be winning at either AFL or VFL level.

If depth isn't in reference to talent, then what's it in reference to? Green's okay as a third option as a small forward, Colyer's been playing off a wing and Howlett and Zaharakis are both midfielders who, ideally, shouldn't be in a senior team.