Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[Frank Grimes]

What are the lines for declaration of war exactly?

Personally I would have thought him allowing passage of Russian troops to invade Ukraine to start off with as a declaration of war.

But firing missiles from his territory into Ukraine I think is a clear declaration of war. Or is he saying that if the shoe was on the other foot and Ukraine decided to fire missiles into Russia or Belerus before the war started they wouldn't see or use that as a declaration of war?

 

[mighty tiges]

What are the lines for declaration of war exactly?

Personally I would have thought him allowing passage of Russian troops to invade Ukraine to start off with as a declaration of war.

But firing missiles from his territory into Ukraine I think is a clear declaration of war. Or is he saying that if the shoe was on the other foot and Ukraine decided to fire missiles into Russia or Belerus before the war started they wouldn't see or use that as a declaration of war?

You're right. There's no formal requirement anymore for a declaration of war. Once hostilities commence now days it's war.

Under positive international law in the past centuries, hostilities could not commence between two or more States without clear warning in the form of a declaration of war stating the reasons therefor or of an ultimatum with a conditional declaration of war. Once that requirement had been met, a state of war formally existed between the States.

The principle of a compulsory declaration of war has now fallen into disuse. In practice and under customary law, a declaration of war is no longer necessary for a state of war to exist; it suffices for one of the parties to make its intentions clear by actually commencing hostilities.
Similarly, a formal declaration of war is not necessary for the application of international humanitarian law.

Declaration of war | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

casebook.icrc.org

 

[mighty tiges]

The first use of HIMARS must have been effective given Russia's angry missile response.

 

[mighty tiges]

Putin's war criminal henchmen.

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[mighty tiges]

Putin's hiring another rent a crowd for his BS propaganda .

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[maroon and blue]

Biden's green policies are putting a billion dollars of oil profits each month into Putins pocket. At the same time Biden is propping up the Ukraine government with a billion dollars a month. This is the first time in U.S. history it has funded both sides of a war.

 

[Over The Post]

This is the first time in U.S. history it has funded both sides of a war.

*officially

 

[Zidane98]

Russia has defaulted on foreign debt for the first time in 104 years. Sounds like Vlad's efforts to circumvent sanctions is going just great for him.

 

[maroon and blue]

*officially

How do you stamp official on comments. All I can say is I have multiple information resources. I suggest you get out of the anti conservative closet and just do the due diligence and fact finding yourself. I'll throw one back at you. Who do support Russia or Ukraine ?

 

[maroon and blue]

Russia has defaulted on foreign debt for the first time in 104 years. Sounds like Vlad's efforts to circumvent sanctions is going just great for him.

Russia is going nowhere as fanciful as your comments are. The Russian people are a tough bunch and are incredibly loyal to their leaders. I wouldn't want to be a banking goblin trying to extort money from the Russians.

 

[owen87]

Who do support Russia or Ukraine ?

Well at least you've made it clear who you support;

Russia is going nowhere as fanciful as your comments are. The Russian people are a tough bunch and are incredibly loyal to their leaders. I wouldn't want to be a banking goblin trying to extort money from the Russians.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia is going nowhere as fanciful as your comments are. The Russian people are a tough bunch and are incredibly loyal to their leaders. I wouldn't want to be a banking goblin trying to extort money from the Russians.

Who's trying to extort money from the fascist Russians?


Ukraine just wants Vladimir Putler & his fascists to piss off and leave them alone. They don't want any Russian "offers" of economic assistance. I don't understand why you believe anyone is trying to extort Russia? All countries have foreign debt that needs to be serviced. It is highly embarrassing for Russia not to be able to meet a foreign debt obligation for the first time in 104 years.


I must say though when the leader of your Mother Russia resorts to legalising the theft of aircraft owned by international leasing companies to keep air travel going things definitely are not going too well. Now that is what you call extortion - by the Russian state against international leasing companies many of whom are Irish.

 

[Zidane98]

Putin's hiring another rent a crowd for his BS propaganda .

I'm sure the Internet Research Agency in St Petersburg could assist with a few staff members.

 

[CD Xbow]

Who's trying to extort money from the fascist Russians?


Ukraine just wants Vladimir Putler & his fascists to piss off and leave them alone. They don't want any Russian "offers" of economic assistance. I don't understand why you believe anyone is trying to extort Russia? All countries have foreign debt that needs to be serviced. It is highly embarrassing for Russia not to be able to meet a foreign debt obligation for the first time in 104 years.


I must say though when the leader of your Mother Russia resorts to legalising the theft of aircraft owned by international leasing companies to keep air travel going things definitely are not going too well. Now that is what you call extortion - by the Russian state against international leasing companies many of whom are Irish.

What's old is new. Roman historian and politician Tacitus wrote these words in the 2nd century AD, which describes the behaviour of Mr Putin's Russia perfectly;

"To ravage, to slaughter, to steal, this they give the false name of empire; and where they create a wasteland, they call it peace.”

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium, atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant. - Tacitus, from 'Agricola'.

 

[Over The Post]

How do you stamp official on comments. All I can say is I have multiple information resources. I suggest you get out of the anti conservative closet and just do the due diligence and fact finding yourself. I'll throw one back at you. Who do support Russia or Ukraine ?

Maybe the first time they have openly funded both sides, but there's plenty of examples going back, eg USG bankrolling and supporting IBM's sales and maintenance to Germany during WWII.

Re who I support, neither.

I think Russia (aka Putin) are dickheads for invading and it will end up Putin's Afghanistan. Not a legacy the sick man will have wanted as an epitaph.

I think Ukraine's TV-actor-playing-president-but-for-real-this-time is struggling and at the mercy of individuals and powers behind the scenes, and it is reprehensible that they did not follow through on the concessions they agreed to give to allow limited self-determination and self-government of Luhansk and Donetsk while remaining part of Ukraine. And which would have not given Putin a "puting my money where my mouth is" reason to invade.

 

[Zidane98]

Maybe the first time they have openly funded both sides, but there's plenty of examples going back, eg USG bankrolling and supporting IBM's sales and maintenance to Germany during WWII.

Re who I support, neither.

I think Russia (aka Putin) are dickheads for invading and it will end up Putin's Afghanistan. Not a legacy the sick man will have wanted as an epitaph.

I think Ukraine's TV-actor-playing-president-but-for-real-this-time is struggling and at the mercy of individuals and powers behind the scenes, and it is reprehensible that they did not follow through on the concessions they agreed to give to allow limited self-determination and self-government of Luhansk and Donetsk while remaining part of Ukraine. And which would have not given Putin a "puting my money where my mouth is" reason to invade.

Afghanistan was a deeply troubled country in the 70s and still is today. Ukraine is a peaceful European nation that was invaded because it no longer wanted to be a state run by Russian puppets any more ala Belarus / Lukashenko.


Ukraine to Putin is more like Hitler to Poland if anything. Not comparable to Afghanistan.

 

[Over The Post]

Poland didn't immediately kick Hitler's arse into a stalemate.

The point is that Afghanistan sucked USSR's resources and manpower for years for zero benefit until they eventually said "* this" and folded up their tents and left.

Ukraine is very much Putin's Afghanistan, in exactly the same way that Afghanistan was Brezhnev's Vietnam.

 

[footyfan1978]

If it smells like a duck and qwacks like a duck...

 

[Zidane98]

Maybe the first time they have openly funded both sides, but there's plenty of examples going back, eg USG bankrolling and supporting IBM's sales and maintenance to Germany during WWII.

Re who I support, neither.

I think Russia (aka Putin) are dickheads for invading and it will end up Putin's Afghanistan. Not a legacy the sick man will have wanted as an epitaph.

I think Ukraine's TV-actor-playing-president-but-for-real-this-time is struggling and at the mercy of individuals and powers behind the scenes, and it is reprehensible that they did not follow through on the concessions they agreed to give to allow limited self-determination and self-government of Luhansk and Donetsk while remaining part of Ukraine. And which would have not given Putin a "puting my money where my mouth is" reason to invade.

You do realise that the same day the Minsk 2 agreement was signed the Russians launched a massive blitz on Debaltseve? When asked about it the rebels and the Russians simply shrugged their shoulders simply said "Debaltseve isn't part of the Minsk agreement". Ukrainians have agreed to autnomony many times in exchange for Russia to piss off. It never happens.


Ukraine are not to blame here. Russia have continued to attack Ukraine for years regardless of any agreement including the original Budapest agreement which Russia guaranteed to respect Ukrainian territory and not attack it.


Russia wants DPR / LPR to be hellholes so it ties up Ukranian resources and stops them from ever having a choice of joining NATO. Russian proxies have no interest in peace as long as Putin has a motive to undermine Ukraine.

 

[Over The Post]

An interesting take on it. I'll give it some thought.

 

[Visions]

When in trouble you turn to best of the best.



As someone on another forum said "He's not going to die of a stroke 3 days after being deployed is he?"

 

[wannabejack]

When in trouble you turn to best of the best.



As someone on another forum said "He's not going to die of a stroke 3 days after being deployed is he?"