Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[Guardian Hawk]

Surely this must be the year that North make some significant strides up the ladder?

Over the last 4 drafts, they've now had 6! (5 if you don't count JHF) top 4 selections. That's 1/3rd of a starting side to add to other first rounders like LDU, Powell, etc. They've also had 5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks to come next year and multiple extra list spots.

By contrast, Hawthorn have had 0 top 4 picks and obviously no priority picks in that time.

Surely it must be now that this imbalance will start to manifest, with the likes of Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher all demonstrating the elite talent North have had access to.

 

[theiaofseed]

View attachment 1940731

That's such a damning statistic.

It's like one side played a fellow bottom 6 side before having 11 of the last 15 goals kicked on them and the other was playing a top 4 side.

 

[the big lebowski]

Surely this must be the year that North make some significant strides up the ladder?

Over the last 4 drafts, they've now had 6! (5 if you don't count JHF) top 4 selections. That's 1/3rd of a starting side to add to other first rounders like LDU, Powell, etc. They've also had 5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks to come next year and multiple extra list spots.

By contrast, Hawthorn have had 0 top 4 picks and obviously no priority picks in that time.

Surely it must be now that this imbalance will start to manifest, with the likes of Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher all demonstrating the elite talent North have had access to.

Gee I wish.

We’ve been heavily predicted to finish bottom 3, with the worst backline ever assembled.

You might be on your own in thinking north will spike up the ladder.

 

[Liam Boy]

Surely this must be the year that North make some significant strides up the ladder?

Over the last 4 drafts, they've now had 6! (5 if you don't count JHF) top 4 selections. That's 1/3rd of a starting side to add to other first rounders like LDU, Powell, etc. They've also had 5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks to come next year and multiple extra list spots.

By contrast, Hawthorn have had 0 top 4 picks and obviously no priority picks in that time.

Surely it must be now that this imbalance will start to manifest, with the likes of Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher all demonstrating the elite talent North have had access to.

Considering we traded JHF for the Wardlaw pick it doesn't really make sense to count both separately, so yeah, 5.

5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks? How is that? Either we've had 3 with 2 to come or we've had 5, since we traded out the future ones. There were the two must-trade ones that we used to get Logue and Tucker, then the 3 end of first rounders last year and this year. We don't hold any of those picks anymore and we took none of them to the draft. Of the 5 first round picks we took last year, one was our natural pick, one was compensation for McKay, one we got from Port in the JHF trade, and 2 we traded in with Carlton, the Suns and Sydney in swaps involving the priority picks, our later picks and Fisher + Stephens. We have a normal draft hand this year, the package is over. Sydney and the Suns hold those future picks now.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What you're just a pissant?

No, I just asked a question about Crows players

But you took it as an insult

Concerning

 

[LoBu]

No, I just asked a question about Crows players

But you took it as an insult

Concerning

Not as concerning a hawthorn, likely to finish last this year.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Not as concerning a hawthorn, likely to finish last this year.

Ok
Your anger and obsession is quite worrying
Also misspelling a two letter word is a cause for concern
You must be quite enraged with a simple question

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Considering we traded JHF for the Wardlaw pick it doesn't really make sense to count both separately, so yeah, 5.

5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks? How is that? Either we've had 3 with 2 to come or we've had 5, since we traded out the future ones. There were the two must-trade ones that we used to get Logue and Tucker, then the 3 end of first rounders last year and this year. We don't hold any of those picks anymore and we took none of them to the draft. Of the 5 first round picks we took last year, one was our natural pick, one was compensation for McKay, one we got from Port in the JHF trade, and 2 we traded in with Carlton, the Suns and Sydney in swaps involving the priority picks, our later picks and Fisher + Stephens. We have a normal draft hand this year, the package is over. Sydney and the Suns hold those future picks now.

I had originally understood that you had received 2 in 2022, 3 this year and 2 for next year but the article I checked was poorly worded. You did indeed receive 2 in 2022 and 3 in 2023 (inclusive of 2 for 2024). So, "only" 5 priority picks in total (plus extra list spots).

Either way, that is a lot of additional free assistance on top of 5 top 4 picks. That is really the absolute cream of the crop of many consecutive drafts. Due to being slightly more competitive (or not gutting our list quite as hard), together with the highly compromised nature of recent drafts, Hawthorn have simply not had access to any top 4 selections and have mostly been entering the draft around pick 7 (as well as no 'extras').

In a thread about the quality of youth at each club (and the implications for the future), I have some concerns about this disparity. Your top 2/3 picks (like Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) are demonstrating themselves to be elite (as you would expect of kids selected that high). Hawthorn top picks are tracking ok but there is a difference between top 3 picks and selecting around pick 7, which may be starting to manifest.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Who are Adelaide's young talent bar Rachele, Soligo and Michalanney

Seems bare

not paying much attention, how much depends on what you consider young

 

[LoBu]

Ok
Your anger and obsession is quite worrying
Also misspelling a two letter word is a cause for concern
You must be quite enraged with a simple question

Not I'm fine thanks, appreciate you correcting the typo

 

[Liam Boy]

I had originally understood that you had received 2 in 2022, 3 this year and 2 for next year but the article I checked was poorly worded. You did indeed receive 2 in 2022 and 3 in 2023 (inclusive of 2 for 2024). So, "only" 5 priority picks in total (plus extra list spots).

Either way, that is a lot of additional free assistance on top of 5 top 4 picks. That is really the absolute cream of the crop of many consecutive drafts. Due to being slightly more competitive (or not gutting our list quite as hard), together with the highly compromised nature of recent drafts, Hawthorn have simply not had access to any top 4 selections and have mostly been entering the draft around pick 7 (as well as no 'extras').

In a thread about the quality of youth at each club (and the implications for the future), I have some concerns about this disparity. Your top 2/3 picks (like Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) are demonstrating themselves to be elite (as you would expect of kids selected that high). Hawthorn top picks are tracking ok but there is a difference between top 3 picks and selecting around pick 7, which may be starting to manifest.

I don't know what to tell you man, that's what happens when a club is way worse than another over a period. If you'd had to endure this period of shitness you'd probably feel differently.

 

[QuietB]

Not as concerning a hawthorn, likely to finish last this year.

West Coast are still in it.

Hawks will be ok

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

I had originally understood that you had received 2 in 2022, 3 this year and 2 for next year but the article I checked was poorly worded. You did indeed receive 2 in 2022 and 3 in 2023 (inclusive of 2 for 2024). So, "only" 5 priority picks in total (plus extra list spots).

Either way, that is a lot of additional free assistance on top of 5 top 4 picks. That is really the absolute cream of the crop of many consecutive drafts. Due to being slightly more competitive (or not gutting our list quite as hard), together with the highly compromised nature of recent drafts, Hawthorn have simply not had access to any top 4 selections and have mostly been entering the draft around pick 7 (as well as no 'extras').

In a thread about the quality of youth at each club (and the implications for the future), I have some concerns about this disparity. Your top 2/3 picks (like Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) are demonstrating themselves to be elite (as you would expect of kids selected that high). Hawthorn top picks are tracking ok but there is a difference between top 3 picks and selecting around pick 7, which may be starting to manifest.

Sheezel, Wardlaw and McKercher were selected with our natural picks. Generally if you’re as hopeless as North were for the past three years you get three high pick players.

Duursma is another worth tracking at pick 4.

Hawks finishing last or second last for the next three years should even out the stats when comparing to North.

 

[SSSSSS]

Sheezel, Wardlaw and McKercher were selected with our natural picks. Generally if you’re as hopeless as North were for the past three years you get three high pick players.

Duursma is another worth tracking at pick 4.

Hawks finishing last or second last for the next three years should even out the stats when comparing to North.

Can't see the North Eagles dynasty ending anytime soon. A great modern day rivalry.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

Can't see the North Eagles dynasty ending anytime soon. A great modern day rivalry.

Gather those picks before the Tassie team starts harvesting the talent and compromises the draft till 2032.

There will be new cripple fight dynasties forming.

 

[SSSSSS]

Gather those picks before the Tassie team starts harvesting the talent and compromises the draft till 2032.

There will be new cripple fight dynasties forming.

People are too pessimistic about Tassie. They don't see the opportunities.

We're going to offload our potatoes for gold ala Stephens/CCJ to North. We can send them Frost for pick 2 like Weller.

 

[Kangas_11]

I had originally understood that you had received 2 in 2022, 3 this year and 2 for next year but the article I checked was poorly worded. You did indeed receive 2 in 2022 and 3 in 2023 (inclusive of 2 for 2024). So, "only" 5 priority picks in total (plus extra list spots).

Either way, that is a lot of additional free assistance on top of 5 top 4 picks. That is really the absolute cream of the crop of many consecutive drafts. Due to being slightly more competitive (or not gutting our list quite as hard), together with the highly compromised nature of recent drafts, Hawthorn have simply not had access to any top 4 selections and have mostly been entering the draft around pick 7 (as well as no 'extras').

In a thread about the quality of youth at each club (and the implications for the future), I have some concerns about this disparity. Your top 2/3 picks (like Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) are demonstrating themselves to be elite (as you would expect of kids selected that high). Hawthorn top picks are tracking ok but there is a difference between top 3 picks and selecting around pick 7, which may be starting to manifest.

I'm sorry GH, but I don't quite understand what the problem is? North have been worse than Hawthorn over the last 4 seasons, so that's why there's more top 4 picks, that's exactly how equalisation works.

The assistance we've received has been turned into Logue, Tucker, Fisher, Stephens and W. Dawson. 4/5 of those are mature age players that have been brought in to improve our team now, exactly as the AFL intended. So apart from Dawson, the assistance has had no impact on the youth coming through at North.

If anything the complaints from the Hawks should be directed at the AFL for allowing good teams to pinch top end talent through F/S and academy picks, especially KPFs which we both need.

Barring Logan McDonald (not getting into that s***fight) North and the Hawks have missed out on JUH, Darcy and Walter. Throw in Ashcroft and Daicos and that's really the issue for the Hawks IMO.

 

[ChairmanZia]

Gather those picks before the Tassie team starts harvesting the talent and compromises the draft till 2032.

There will be new cripple fight dynasties forming.

Those laughing at us north with the bottoming in the 2020s will get laughed at come 2028.

Now is the time to get the best draft positions setup.

 

[ChairmanZia]

I had originally understood that you had received 2 in 2022, 3 this year and 2 for next year but the article I checked was poorly worded. You did indeed receive 2 in 2022 and 3 in 2023 (inclusive of 2 for 2024). So, "only" 5 priority picks in total (plus extra list spots).

Either way, that is a lot of additional free assistance on top of 5 top 4 picks. That is really the absolute cream of the crop of many consecutive drafts. Due to being slightly more competitive (or not gutting our list quite as hard), together with the highly compromised nature of recent drafts, Hawthorn have simply not had access to any top 4 selections and have mostly been entering the draft around pick 7 (as well as no 'extras').

In a thread about the quality of youth at each club (and the implications for the future), I have some concerns about this disparity. Your top 2/3 picks (like Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) are demonstrating themselves to be elite (as you would expect of kids selected that high). Hawthorn top picks are tracking ok but there is a difference between top 3 picks and selecting around pick 7, which may be starting to manifest.

Our top picks from 2022, 23 are elite because they have been playing around the support group that was built from late 2019s and early 2020s. As bad as the 2020s have been, clarkson arrives at north with a list 60% assembled.

Compare to saints, rich, melb, coll who got kositschki, tambling, trengrove, thomas with actual pick 2 and not picks in the 20s. We got shafted by the afl.

Now if you were talking about mackay's pick 3, may i remind you that it wasn't a gift, it was the free agency compo in that we get a band 1 pick, meaning a pick right after our first.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Rankine, Pedlar, Thilthorpe, Sholl.

Borlase has only had a few games, but looks promising.

Dawson is only 18 months older than Worpel and Moore, so has plenty of footy in him.

They're in a bit of strife for a club that's already been out of action for a long time though.

Most clubs have similar names to those you've mentioned, and they've done it without the picks that the Crows have had.

How you can be out of the finals for that long and not drafted one bonafide young gun in the midfield is beyond me, but that's what happens when you pick Chayce Jones & Fischer McAsey over Zak Butters & Will Day.

 

[ChairmanZia]

They're in a bit of strife for a club that's already been out of action for a long time though.

Most clubs have similar names to those you've mentioned, and they've done it without the picks that the Crows have had.

How you can be out of the finals for that long and not drafted one bonafide young gun in the midfield is beyond me, but that's what happens when you pick Chayce Jones & Fischer McAsey over Zak Butters & Will Day.

Errr the crows were last in the gf in 2017 so not that long.

 

[King Hansen]

Surely this must be the year that North make some significant strides up the ladder?

Over the last 4 drafts, they've now had 6! (5 if you don't count JHF) top 4 selections. That's 1/3rd of a starting side to add to other first rounders like LDU, Powell, etc. They've also had 5 priority picks with another 2 first round priority picks to come next year and multiple extra list spots.

By contrast, Hawthorn have had 0 top 4 picks and obviously no priority picks in that time.

Surely it must be now that this imbalance will start to manifest, with the likes of Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher all demonstrating the elite talent North have had access to.

Why the * would you count JHF?? Stopped reading after that.

 

[King Hansen]

By contrast, Hawthorn have had 0 top 4 picks and obviously no priority picks in that time.

I think getting Buddy Franklin was enough of an AFL handout for the Hawks mate.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Errr the crows were last in the gf in 2017 so not that long.

I'm as prone as anyone to falling into the trap and thinking that 2017 was just a couple years ago...but that's 7 years ago now, and 7 years without finals.

Every club in the league has turned over their list almost entirely since then. It's a pretty long time, albeit in our heads it doesn't feel that long ago. LDU was still running around for the Stingrays at that point for instance.

I guess what I'm saying is North & Hawthorn might not be as competitive as the Crows, but you can read the names and watch them play and see a core building.

LDU, Sheezel, Newcombe, Day, Wardlaw, MacDonald, Mackenzie, McKercher.

Plus both clubs have got the likes of Larkey & Lewis, who while a little older, you'd like to think they're still contributing when the climb comes.

It just feels like the Hawks & North have used their draft position to build a core, while the Crows have used their picks like they're putting the finishing touches on their list when they're not in a position to do so.

Admittedly, they where pretty unlucky with McAsey, and if he came good that would have helped...but guys like Rachele & Rankine are the cream, not the cake.

You don't invest high picks into flankers when you've barely got your spine together, and it looks like they've tried to rectify that with Curtin last year.

It just feels wrong for a club that's been out of the finals for 7 years to have a midfield of Laird, Crouch, Keays, & Dawson.

Those guys are in their prime, and where still made to looks average by a Geelong midfield full of kids and good-ordinary players outside of Danger.

 

[peetoo]

Sounding like a cracked record but

Thread started after 2020. 3 drafts since then

Will the thread still be going when the draftees 2020 start to retire? And we are discussin ‘youth’ who weren’t actually born in 2020?