Why we are where we are at

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R

RJK Tiger

Premiership Player
Oct 29, 2020
3,786
9,122
AFL Club
Richmond
Why we are are where we are




  • Rance retired too early
  • Lamberts body broke down too early
  • Astbury body broke down too early
  • Castagna retired too early due to form
  • Higgins left
  • Butler left
  • Chol left
  • B.Ellis left
  • Dusty's body & soul got battered


It basically brought our end forward faster by 1-2 seasons minimum. It made the ability to merge the era's without a dramatic fallout impossible.

The other reason is we have struggled to either hit the right draft picks, or failed to put the appropriate time in to develop players between 2017-2020

As it stands this is the list of players in drafted order that remain on our list from that period

Remaining

Noah Balta ( 2017 / p25 )
Ben Miller ( 2017 / P68 )
Liam Baker ( 2017 / rookie )
Jack Ross ( 2018 / P63 )
Marlion Pickett ( 2018 / Mid Season Pick )
Thomas Dow ( 2019 / P21 )
Noah Cumberland ( 2018 / P43 )
Hugo Ralph-Smith ( 2018 / P46 )
Biggy Nyuon ( 2018 / P54 )
Samson Ryan ( 2019 / P40 )
MRJ ( 2020 / Pick 51)
Rhyan Mansell ( 2020 / Pre Season )
Mate Colina ( pick 2020 / Rookie )

Gone
Jack Higgins ( 2017 / P17 )
Callum Coleman Jones ( 2017 / P20 )
Patrick Naish (2017 /P34 )
Derek Eggsontoast ( 2017 / Rookie )
Riley Collier Dawkins ( 2018 / P20 )
Fraser Turner ( 2018 / P58 )
Luke English ( 2018 / P62 )
Jake Aarts ( 2018 / Rookie )
Sydney Stack ( 2018 / Pre-Season )
Maverick Weller ( 2018 / Pre-Season )
Will Martyn ( 2019 / Pick 44 )
Matthew Parker ( 2022 / Mid-Season )



For whatever reason, we haven't hit a first round pick for a 4 year period & except for Noah Balta, haven't hit on a 2nd round pick. As always we have a good strike-rate with later picks, especially considering Baker is the best player we have gotten for that entire period.

Essentially though - outside of Balta, Baker, Cumberland & Pickett - we are not entirely sure if we have many 100 game players in that group. Most of our wins have been from lower picks. We have a massive hole in our list because of this & unfortunately that hole has the potential to get larger as we have zero good picks 22-23 now. We are relying on that one 2021 draft to carry us from 2017 till 2024.Its not hard to see where this is going to possibly head. It also means we have failed to pick up a possible elite young player for 7 seasons.

If we do fail to pick up steam, the club might have to consider finding a way to trade back into this years draft first round. It might mean trading Broad or Short.
 
Rioli2Rioli said:

Why we are where we are at​

Because we won 3 flags and were at the pointy end of the ladder for 5 years
its called gravity
Click to expand...
I do agree we won 3 flags took our opportunity with both hands all destiny's end no need to go there , but cats always seem to replenish on the run.I just hope it's not another 30 years till we challenge again.
 

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db26 said:
I do agree we won 3 flags took our opportunity with both hands all destiny's end no need to go there , but cats always seem to replenish on the run.I just hope it's not another 30 years till we challenge again.
Click to expand...
Cats have been kissed on the d!ck with their father sons and lets not forget the facilitating the AFL have done over the years
Ablett - Dangerfield -Bowes #7 - Hawkins - Scarlett

But the end is 2 years away from a very very long rebuild for the cats as they have 15 players over 29 and no young talent to speak of apart from 3-4 kids
 
db26 said:
I do agree we won 3 flags took our opportunity with both hands all destiny's end no need to go there , but cats always seem to replenish on the run.I just hope it's not another 30 years till we challenge again.
Click to expand...
The difference between Geelong and us is that Geelong brought players into their best 22 (whether stars or just role players) from other clubs almost every year. That’s why they keep things up for so long IMO.

Meanwhile, we brought in Tom Lynch, Jacob Hopper, and Tim Taranto in a 6-year period. Great players, but that’s not enough experienced players to replace what we lost over the same period. Instead, we went the route of replenishing via the draft. That would’ve been a great strategy if we nailed the first-round picks, but unfortunately it did not work out. Hence, we’re now not in the top 4. It is what it is I guess, but we’ll see how the club responds to this.
 
RJK Tiger said:
Why we are are where we are




  • Rance retired too early
  • Lamberts body broke down too early
  • Astbury body broke down too early
  • Castagna retired too early due to form
  • Higgins left
  • Butler left
  • Chol left
  • B.Ellis left
  • Dusty's body & soul got battered


It basically brought our end forward faster by 1-2 seasons minimum. It made the ability to merge the era's without a dramatic fallout impossible.

The other reason is we have struggled to either hit the right draft picks, or failed to put the appropriate time in to develop players between 2017-2020

As it stands this is the list of players in drafted order that remain on our list from that period

Remaining

Noah Balta ( 2017 / p25 )
Ben Miller ( 2017 / P68 )
Liam Baker ( 2017 / rookie )
Jack Ross ( 2018 / P63 )
Marlion Pickett ( 2018 / Mid Season Pick )
Thomas Dow ( 2019 / P21 )
Noah Cumberland ( 2018 / P43 )
Hugo Ralph-Smith ( 2018 / P46 )
Biggy Nyuon ( 2018 / P54 )
Samson Ryan ( 2019 / P40 )
MRJ ( 2020 / Pick 51)
Rhyan Mansell ( 2020 / Pre Season )
Mate Colina ( pick 2020 / Rookie )

Gone
Jack Higgins ( 2017 / P17 )
Callum Coleman Jones ( 2017 / P20 )
Patrick Naish (2017 /P34 )
Derek Eggsontoast ( 2017 / Rookie )
Riley Collier Dawkins ( 2018 / P20 )
Fraser Turner ( 2018 / P58 )
Luke English ( 2018 / P62 )
Jake Aarts ( 2018 / Rookie )
Sydney Stack ( 2018 / Pre-Season )
Maverick Weller ( 2018 / Pre-Season )
Will Martyn ( 2019 / Pick 44 )
Matthew Parker ( 2022 / Mid-Season )



For whatever reason, we haven't hit a first round pick for a 4 year period & except for Noah Balta, haven't hit on a 2nd round pick. As always we have a good strike-rate with later picks, especially considering Baker is the best player we have gotten for that entire period.

Essentially though - outside of Balta, Baker, Cumberland & Pickett - we are not entirely sure if we have many 100 game players in that group. Most of our wins have been from lower picks. We have a massive hole in our list because of this & unfortunately that hole has the potential to get larger as we have zero good picks 22-23 now. We are relying on that one 2021 draft to carry us from 2017 till 2024.Its not hard to see where this is going to possibly head. It also means we have failed to pick up a possible elite young player for 7 seasons.

If we do fail to pick up steam, the club might have to consider finding a way to trade back into this years draft first round. It might mean trading Broad or Short.
Click to expand...

Wow, that’s some sobering reading. Apart from maybe Cumberland, there’s almost a total lack of star quality in these names and I’d add one other thing, which is that I think, in some respects, the premierships papered over the recruiting issues. For instance, if you look at the side that lost the 2013 Elimination Final and compare it to the side that won the 2017 Grand Final, the improvement isn’t as dramatic as you might think. In fact, we said goodbye to some players (eg. Newman, Deledio) who were probably superior to the players who came in, while in other cases we made like for like replacements (eg. Nankervis for Maric).
 
Lsta062 said:
The difference between Geelong and us is that Geelong brought players into their best 22 (whether stars or just role players) from other clubs almost every year. That’s why they keep things up for so long IMO.

Meanwhile, we brought in Tom Lynch, Jacob Hopper, and Tim Taranto in a 6-year period. Great players, but that’s not enough experienced players to replace what we lost over the same period. Instead, we went the route of replenishing via the draft. That would’ve been a great strategy if we nailed the first-round picks, but unfortunately it did not work out. Hence, we’re now not in the top 4. It is what it is I guess, but we’ll see how the club responds to this.
Click to expand...
Thats why replacing Jack Riewoldt with Harry Himmelberg just makes so much sense
 
Rioli2Rioli said:

Why we are where we are at​

Because we won 3 flags and were at the pointy end of the ladder for 5 years
its called gravity
Click to expand...

100 percent agree with you. I'll add that Hardwick is going the Clarko route of trying to push his players for as long as possible/poaching players instead of looking to the draft.
 

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Rioli2Rioli said:
Also he is very different to Ryan post Lynch
he is just such a solid player that will give you 40+ goals a year if left playing foward
Click to expand...
Oh yeah I forget that we’re also looking at post-Lynch soon given that he’s turning 31 this year. Yeah it’d be great to have Himmelberg inside 50. He’s clever, a decent shot for goal and a strong mark. Would be 27 years old at the start of next year, which isn’t too old
 
aislegi said:
Wow, that’s some sobering reading. Apart from maybe Cumberland, there’s almost a total lack of star quality in these names and I’d add one other thing, which is that I think, in some respects, the premierships papered over the recruiting issues. For instance, if you look at the side that lost the 2013 Elimination Final and compare it to the side that won the 2017 Grand Final, the improvement isn’t as dramatic as you might think. In fact, we said goodbye to some players (eg. Newman, Deledio) who were probably superior to the players who came in, while in other cases we made like for like replacements (eg. Nankervis for Maric).
Click to expand...

I’ve seen it all.
 
Dont_Argue said:
No A+ kicks which is so important in todays game, keep picking duds with our first rounders
Click to expand...
Thought of posting somthing like this

We built a system-based team. Clubs built for the skill with the new rules and we looked at Melbournes style and picked up defenders hoping to take their defence system and get Hopps and TT to run the midfield.

The system rebuild is supposed to take around 5 years I reckon and we are currently in year two of that block
 
Dont_Argue said:
No A+ kicks which is so important in todays game, keep picking duds with our first rounders
Click to expand...
I remember a few years ago our drafting mantra was to target elite kicks!
 
We are where we are because unlike other dynasaty sides we made the decision to try and begin a new era rather than constantly looking to extend an existing era like other teams tried to do.

We've brought in 27 new players since our 2017 premiership, that is a massive investment in youth for a team that was in the hunt for a flag until miid 2021. For one reason or another a number of this younger kids have departed, either looking for greener pastures at opposition clubs or failing to make the grade. To counter some of those failures/departures we took the calculated risk to bring in ready made talent about to enter their primes in Taranto & Hopper on 7 year deals. Those recruitments weren't necessarily for one last shot a glory this year, but more for the next generation to have a couple of established stars in place to lead the charge.

Due to circumstances we're now getting the opportunity to fast track the development of some younger talent who may not have necessarily got the chance without injury/suspension playing a part. It may well be frustrating to not be singing the song after games like we'd become accustomed to between 2017-2020, but there is plenty to get excited about from our players 25 or younger.

I've stated on this board that 2024-2025 is likely to be when we're back in contention for finals and maybe even a premiership chance as we will have completed the changing of the guard from the core of the 2017-2020 group. Patience will be the key here.
 
We also had to start paying more. Huge deal for Dusty from 2018 on. Lynch coming in on big money from 2019. Had to let Brando go because we couldn't match the GCS offer. Possibly were happy to let Butler go so as to have a few more dollars for Castagna/Rioli. Same with Higgins. Rance was on good coin, but a lot of that was probably absorbed by the rest of the backline when their contracts came up (Grimes, Vlastuin, Broad, etc). Rookies improved and naturally get more, especially with success. Cotch and Jack really only took pay-cuts this year, but that money is possibly already largely swallowed by Hopper and Taranto. It's tough, and to find a the perfect balance is even tougher.
 
aislegi said:
Wow, that’s some sobering reading. Apart from maybe Cumberland, there’s almost a total lack of star quality in these names and I’d add one other thing, which is that I think, in some respects, the premierships papered over the recruiting issues. For instance, if you look at the side that lost the 2013 Elimination Final and compare it to the side that won the 2017 Grand Final, the improvement isn’t as dramatic as you might think. In fact, we said goodbye to some players (eg. Newman, Deledio) who were probably superior to the players who came in, while in other cases we made like for like replacements (eg. Nankervis for Maric).
Click to expand...
Wow so we are using the term the premiership papering over the cracks now ?? 🤣🤣 If so can we please have more flags to paper over the cracks big enough to fit Tony Grieg's keys ??
 
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