The future of South African Cricket

[Ciderhound]

The saffers have lost 2 giants of the game with Amla and Steyn retired. With and test cricket around the corner some new blood will have to step up.

Who are the likely candidates?

 

[Ishikawa]

Bowling wise not too many issues despite Steyn being a great of the game. Very good crop of bowlers to pick from.

Batting yes more of a concern. Need promising, but not quite there yet guys like Markram and de Bruyn to step up.

 

[Andrew Mc]

Depends on how many have English passports I guess.

 

[Hamingja]

Batting yes more of a concern. Need promising, but not quite there yet guys like Markram and de Bruyn to step up.

It's interesting that outside of 3 freaks in Smith/Kohli/Williamson pretty much no one is developing batsman anymore.

I mean it would get blamed on white ball cricket and for England you'd have a pretty good case with Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler all being better white ball bats than red ball.

Even with a white ball though the SA bats were a joke at the world cup, India were poor outside Sharma & Kohli, NZ were diabolical outside Williamson & Taylor, Australia were heavily reliant on Warner and Finch.

 

[PhatBoy]

I literally can’t recall any names off the top of my head but last summer I did a bit of stat surfing on the SA FC competitions and there were half a dozen players with career averages of sort of 43-44+ (they do have a two division system though so some figures may be inflated).

One thing SA has done literally ever since their reintroduction to cricket 28 years ago is he competitive.

Their golden age is definitely over but I can’t see them falling too far from the top. They’ll perpetually be top 4-ish in the world.

 

[Richard Pryor]

I literally can’t recall any names off the top of my head but last summer I did a bit of stat surfing on the SA FC competitions and there were half a dozen players with career averages of sort of 43-44+ (they do have a two division system though so some figures may be inflated).

One thing SA has done literally ever since their reintroduction to cricket 28 years ago is he competitive.

Their golden age is definitely over but I can’t see them falling too far from the top. They’ll perpetually be top 4-ish in the world.

For anyone who doesn't know the weird/stupid thing about the two division system is that the second division is a feeder for the first, exactly like the VFL is for the AFL, so it's literally second-class cricket but the stats count for FC. Standard might still be FC level though, I've never seen highlights to judge off. Basically it'd be the same as if we had the Sheffield Shield, and then a Super-Sheffield Shield where Tasmania and Victoria, NSW and Queensland, and WA and SA compete as merged teams.

On a longterm note I think South African cricket needs to win over the populace of South Africa, I think eventually (like decades from now) it will languish if it remains overwhelmingly the sport of white private school attendees. Not sure if the quota system is ultimately an effective way of achieving this though, don't know enough about the reality of South African cricket to comment much more either.

 

[Ishikawa]

While they may have come through the private school system, Rabada, Ngidi, Maharaj are pretty good arguments against the whole "only a game for the white" stereotype.

 

[corbies]

It's interesting that outside of 3 freaks in Smith/Kohli/Williamson pretty much no one is developing batsman anymore.

I mean it would get blamed on white ball cricket and for England you'd have a pretty good case with Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler all being better white ball bats than red ball.

Even with a white ball though the SA bats were a joke at the world cup, India were poor outside Sharma & Kohli, NZ were diabolical outside Williamson & Taylor, Australia were heavily reliant on Warner and Finch.

There is an argument that batting actually isn't that bad right now, we're just in a period of some incredibly good and deep bowling attacks. The 00s was a time where bat dominated ball but it's now going the other way. SA, NZ, Ind, Aus and Eng all have close to their best bowling line ups they've ever had.

 

[frankrizzo]

They seem to lose a few fast bowlers a year then the next blokes in line are stars as well.

 

[The Speaker]

While they may have come through the private school system, Rabada, Ngidi, Maharaj are pretty good arguments against the whole "only a game for the white" stereotype.

Only a game for the rich

 

[The Speaker]

The future of South African cricket mostly lives in England. Current Kolpak team:

Colin Ingram
Richard Levi
Rilee Rossouw
Stiaan van Zyl
Colin Ackermann
Heino Kuhn
Daryn Smit+
Simon Harmer (would be challenging for best Test spinner in the world if still playing international cricket)
Kyle Abbott
Morne Morkel
Duanne Olivier

David Wiese
Wayne Parnell
Hardus Viljoen
Marchant de Lange

 

[Ishikawa]

The strength and depth of that bowling lineup is staggering. Can't blame guys for wanting security of multi-year contracts at lucrative rates but will be interesting to see the influence of the presumed Brexit on Kolpak.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

The quota system will actually be very beneficial for us going forward. I think the side is in excellent shape.

 

[to1994]

The quota system will actually be very beneficial for us going forward. I think the side is in excellent shape.

Excellent shape? You lost a Test series to Sri Lanka at home which is grounds for pressing the panic button and that's exactly what happened.

Have no doubt Amla was moved on along with all the coaching staff but they obviously gave him his dignity. The same may be true for Steyn but both were probably reaching the end anyway.

The quotas are fine when it's Ngidi and Rabada getting into the side, but it's rough when it gets someone like Bavuma 30 odd games when he's not Test standard.

The trouble is Ngidi struggles to stay on the park at the moment, hopefully that changes like with Cummins as having their two best bowlers fit part of the quota is very handy.

 

[PhatBoy]

Excellent shape? You lost a Test series to Sri Lanka at home which is grounds for pressing the panic button and that's exactly what happened.

Have no doubt Amla was moved on along with all the coaching staff but they obviously gave him his dignity. The same may be true for Steyn but both were probably reaching the end anyway.

The quotas are fine when it's Ngidi and Rabada getting into the side, but it's rough when it gets someone like Bavuma 30 odd games when he's not Test standard.

The trouble is Ngidi struggles to stay on the park at the moment, hopefully that changes like with Cummins as having their two best bowlers fit part of the quota is very handy.

Bavuma is the least of their worries. I’m unashamedly pro-Bavuma but even bias aside, if you look at almost every time they have been dug out of a crisis over the last two years, he has played a big part in it. His biggest problem is he never seems to cash in when the going is easiest.

Look at a guy like stokes for a second and forget about his bowling. Would he keep his spot in the England side? It’s hard to say - their batting depth is pathetic. But one thing everyone knows with stokes is that he has a tendency to produce when their backs are against the wall where his teammates don’t. And that has earned him - even from the millions who think he should have been jailed - a lot of respect as a cricketer.

Bavuma is worth a lot more to them than what his average suggests.

All he needs to do is start to cash in when it’s easy, and turn his good, innings-restoring scores into hundreds, and he can be a fulcrum for their batting line up

 

[Rookie]

The future of South African cricket mostly lives in England. Current Kolpak team:

Colin Ingram
Richard Levi
Rilee Rossouw
Stiaan van Zyl
Colin Ackermann
Heino Kuhn
Daryn Smit+
Simon Harmer (would be challenging for best Test spinner in the world if still playing international cricket)
Kyle Abbott
Morne Morkel
Duanne Olivier

David Wiese
Wayne Parnell
Hardus Viljoen
Marchant de Lange

I had no idea the talent drain had been that severe...

 

[HolyRioli]

It's interesting that outside of 3 freaks in Smith/Kohli/Williamson pretty much no one is developing batsman anymore.

I mean it would get blamed on white ball cricket and for England you'd have a pretty good case with Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler all being better white ball bats than red ball.

Even with a white ball though the SA bats were a joke at the world cup, India were poor outside Sharma & Kohli, NZ were diabolical outside Williamson & Taylor, Australia were heavily reliant on Warner and Finch.

Pujara deserves a bit more than that. Wonderful, old school test batsman

 

[to1994]

Bavuma is the least of their worries. I’m unashamedly pro-Bavuma but even bias aside, if you look at almost every time they have been dug out of a crisis over the last two years, he has played a big part in it. His biggest problem is he never seems to cash in when the going is easiest.

Look at a guy like stokes for a second and forget about his bowling. Would he keep his spot in the England side? It’s hard to say - their batting depth is pathetic. But one thing everyone knows with stokes is that he has a tendency to produce when their backs are against the wall where his teammates don’t. And that has earned him - even from the millions who think he should have been jailed - a lot of respect as a cricketer.

Bavuma is worth a lot more to them than what his average suggests.

All he needs to do is start to cash in when it’s easy, and turn his good, innings-restoring scores into hundreds, and he can be a fulcrum for their batting line up

Bavuma is far from the class of Stokes, he's a run of the mill player who has been thrown in the deep end because of their government.

They've put a lot of pressure on him being the face of South African Cricket, even talking now about him getting a leadership role despite not earning one at all. I don't dislike him as a player, I think he's an incredible fielder and and if developed right could go on to be a decent batsman but he's been forced into the XI a number of times because of outside pressure and I don't think that's helping him.

 

[Ishikawa]

The future of South African cricket mostly lives in England. Current Kolpak team:

Colin Ingram
Richard Levi
Rilee Rossouw
Stiaan van Zyl
Colin Ackermann
Heino Kuhn
Daryn Smit+
Simon Harmer (would be challenging for best Test spinner in the world if still playing international cricket)
Kyle Abbott
Morne Morkel
Duanne Olivier

David Wiese
Wayne Parnell
Hardus Viljoen
Marchant de Lange

Just realised you had put Smit ahead of Dane Vilas which is a mistake IMO. Has been a run machine for Lancashire and just made a 260. Is 34y.o at the moment so not a realistic selection with de Kock about but definitely had international quality written all over him.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

The quota system allows greater pathways for all in South Africa to thrive in the game. While I don't love it at international level, it ensures that those from disadvantaged and low-income communities have the same opportunities afforded to those from higher class backgrounds in the nation. The gulf between the private and public system in South Africa is atrocious and sports like cricket (which have done an excellent job) have a significant role to play in affording opportunities for those who would not otherwise have them.

That aside, the current Test and ODI side has all of its players picked on merit and is in excellent shape going forward.

And Bavuma is absolutely one of the best XI and is a key player who has been a rock on multiple occasions when those around him have failed.

 

[The Speaker]

Just realised you had put Smit ahead of Dane Vilas which is a mistake IMO. Has been a run machine for Lancashire and just made a 260. Is 34y.o at the moment so not a realistic selection with de Kock about but definitely had international quality written all over him.

I haven't kept track of every Kolpak, so there's probably a couple more currently playing that I've missed.

The quota system allows greater pathways for all in South Africa to thrive in the game. While I don't love it at international level, it ensures that those from disadvantaged and low-income communities have the same opportunities afforded to those from higher class backgrounds in the nation. The gulf between the private and public system in South Africa is atrocious and sports like cricket (which have done an excellent job) have a significant role to play in affording opportunities for those who would not otherwise have them.

That aside, the current Test and ODI side has all of its players picked on merit and is in excellent shape going forward.

And Bavuma is absolutely one of the best XI and is a key player who has been a rock on multiple occasions when those around him have failed.

If the quota is about getting people who are disadvantaged and have low incomes into cricket, why is it based around skin colour?

 

[PhatBoy]

I haven't kept track of every Kolpak, so there's probably a couple more currently playing that I've missed.



If the quota is about getting people who are disadvantaged and have low incomes into cricket, why is it based around skin colour?

Well that’s a reasonable point but given that coloured people make up an enourmous majority (isn’t it like 90 per cent?) if the population it’s fair to say that the percentage of the low socio economic population is even higher again so of course it’s going to favour those of colour

 

[rodney86]

Bavuma has played 36 tests and averages 33 with one ton. That's not exactly what I'd call a great record.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I haven't kept track of every Kolpak, so there's probably a couple more currently playing that I've missed.



If the quota is about getting people who are disadvantaged and have low incomes into cricket, why is it based around skin colour?

With the greatest respect, I think you have a very minimal knowledge of the social constructs that make up South Africa.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Bavuma has played 36 tests and averages 33 with one ton. That's not exactly what I'd call a great record.

Definitely not great. He's left me wanting a lot more, but he has a very good ability to play a key innigs when his team is in trouble.