Game Day Pre season game 1 vs Collingwood - 1st March 2020 @ Norm Minns Oval, Wangaratta

[The Mighty]

We had bellis and kmac on the wing for years one was a panic merchant the other is a chaos merchant and we did alright I'm sure broad could handle it

The benefit of Broad on the wing defensively is his ability to fold back and provide the tall cover to assist Grimes Dave, and Noah (if he is playing) as he has always done, and adds another contest player up the ground to hold up the footy that is coming into our defensive half thus assisting our backs to get set up

It could work but it still might come down to flexibility and opposition match ups.

Baker or Short moving up the ground might also allow for Nathan to return to defence when needed or should Noah not be able to do the job.

Our defence is quite fluid and is team based not one on one based.

 

[Grrr]

Oh Ok but it probably still shouldn’t be a fine. Ah well it is what it is but players won’t stop doing it.

It's a cheap shot. The bloke on the mark is never looking and always has his eyes on the kicker, then some twat knocks you senseless when you have no reason to suspect it is coming. That is not football and has crept into the game only in the last few year.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

It is a bloody interesting situation though.
We have Short, Baker and Stack who all would have reasonably assumed at some point they’d be forwards at this level but all have blossomed in defence.
Do they all fit? They are all too good not too but all in the back line? Will be fascinating Stack looks like he could play anywhere and to be honest so does Baker, they both overall look slightly better players than Short but as far as a player in defence goes, Short might be ahead.
* we are in a good place.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Baker, Dave and Shorty were my top 3

Baker was top notch...good skills

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

Short has got and will get plenty of senior opportunities because the coaching staff rightly value kicking penetration as a key weapon.

I fully realise that the concept of the ball going longer and faster into attack being pure football gold is a difficult one for a puzzling number of people to comprehend, but rest assured the coaching staff get it. Elite kicking is a precious commodity and there's plenty of drafts where there's less available than any other elite skill.

Short is the best kick we've had in a very long time, we know he's elite and the coaching staff have made it pretty clear IMO, that they intend to make full use of it.

I'm 100% onboard with that and backing that he'll be a mainstay of future sides if his body holds up. He might play some VFL to work on some issues now and again over the next couple of years, but his long term future is very secure IMO.

Kicks with either foot too, which is a significant point of difference

 

[Soberian Tiger]

Kicks with either foot too, which is a significant point of difference

Points of difference are essential. I understand fully the interest in Maurice Junior for example, having the highest regard for his father, but if RFC does take MRJ the club may have to slow down on the small mid/fwd drafting somewhat thereafter unless large points of difference say otherwise.

Short was probably more a mid-fwd when he was drafted, but has since slotted in down back out of necessity in finding a vacancy in an overflowing team.

Baker's another one, for that matter.

 

[Tiges1229]

if that was a Richmond player he gets 15 years to life in prison

EFA

 

[joelsyt]

Is no one doing a preview for Sunday’s game?

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Is no one doing a preview for Sunday’s game?

Are you volunteering?

 

[Rayzorwire]

He does not do something that many of our players do - bomb inside 50. His low but penetrating kicks are fantastic for us. That alone makes me see his worth in our side.

I think the coaching staff are very much of that mind, Lst.

In a game where defense and zoning is such a massive thing and every player on the field is drilled to be defensively minded from teenage years, the last thing you want is predictability in forward delivery.

I've been a constant advocate for two kinds of ball movement for a couple of decades now - fast contested 'chaos' ball movement with hard bodied ball winners driving it, and getting in penetrating kicks whose extra 10-15m off the boot plus getting it there quicker just completely confound opposition defenses and often have them contesting from way behind (because they didn't think a long lead was viable), under the ball, out-positioned or chasing back.

2001 was a massive football lesson for me, seeing the difference Leon Cameron's kicking made to what had become a pretty tame unit before then. Bowden was a decent kick, but Cameron had that extra 10-15m with a gorgeous flat arc to his delivery and our marking and leading smaller players just excelled. His kicking literally shrank the football field, made us faster and far more potent in our ball movement.

If you're a last line key defender watching blokes like Cameron and Short deliver inside-50, any position you take up which covers you in front and sideways leaves your back exposed because they have that crucial extra penetration. You can cover yourself against most balls in because you know anything beyond 50-55m is physically beyond the kicker. The rare players who have that extra penetration (Martin is also capable of doing it on his day) make defenders sweat bullets.

We don't agree very often Ray, but on Short I'm in full agreement. Played 70 odd games already and is really starting to understand the finer points of playing the rebounding defender role in that he knows when to gamble and take off and when to hang back and ensure he is in the spot he is supposed to be to keep the defensive structure in place. Not the best 1-1 defender, but our system doesn't really rely on 1-1 defenders with the exception of Grimes(dangerous small/medium forward) & Astbury(KPF). The majority of the time it is the group effort to ensure that clean entry into the opposition F50 so that we can get numbers to the fall of the ball.

In yesterdays game he gained well over 500m along with Baker gaining over 600m, that becomes a very dangerous counter attacking weapon in our game plan of get it forward quickly.

I would argue that we actually have more years agreeing with each other than not, RT, although the disagree post count would suggest the diametric opposite.

I suspect we'll have a decade of more agreement than not.

It's always pretty easy to harp on the individual defensive efforts of players whose primary role is not defense when they fail in that department. We're big on roles and playing to strengths, I love this approach. If Short does his thing linking up in key ball movement chains and we outscore the opposition, it really doesn't matter one iota if the odd defensive effort goes astray. We'll weigh his contribution on the potential and actual goals added and as you say the amount he's been picked when fit suggests the coaching staff are happy with the scales.

Thought short was super solid in defense during the finals and grand final.. I was really impressed

Absolutely, Karp, I think the only thing preventing some people from seeing the improvement that's already there is that he played very little footy last year. He was underwhelming early in the year (which is not surprising given the general side performance) and what games he did get late in the piece were overshadowed by so much other stuff happening.

Kicks with either foot too, which is a significant point of difference

Amen, I can't believe this skill is getting rarer instead of the opposite happening. I guess it's not 'fun' to practice at training. I also suspect there's a whole country full of one-footed coaches who just really undervalue the worth of teaching what they 'didn't need.'

Which is kind of sad for all concerned IMO, but what would I know, I still miss the drop-kick disappearing from the game, especially now with the improvement in surfaces making it a more viable option than it often was on the old swamp grounds.

I watched a few footballers when I was a kid who could kick 65-70m drop kicks in still conditions and get the ball to the target significantly quicker than a drop punt by keeping it lower, particularly into the wind. There's a reason it was a part of the game for so long, just like the torp it had its time and place in a game where it was the best technique available.

 

[mopsy]

He does not do something that many of our players do - bomb inside 50. His low but penetrating kicks are fantastic for us. That alone makes me see his worth in our side.

just gotta disagree. When people complain about the helicopter punts they are imagining them i suppose.On delivering inside 50 he did it just 29 times last yr at less than two a game.

He is an outlet player nothing more and that is his role because he is totally incapable of playing any other role.
What he does well does not out weigh what he does so poorly imo but hey we all have different opinions.
Defensively inadequate, Cant lay a tackle in fact lays very few, cant find any ball for himself and is Brandon Ellis like when it comes to panic attacks and putting his head over the ball.

They have effectively given him another three yrs and i for one just cant see why you would do it.Imo you could pluck just about any player out of the blue as long as he has good pace good boot and can play to the plan which for him is to sit out side and be fed.

 

[joelsyt]

Are you volunteering?

Lol i haven't written anything creative or factual since i was 18 years old. I would disappoint.

 

[Oprah From Tigerland]

Lol i haven't written anything creative or factual since i was 18 years old. I would disappoint.

here I’ll help:

Tiges by 89

 

[biaseddustyfan]

what was with mason utensils bringing out the strut and custom goal celebrations for a nab cup game?

 

[Grrr]

Comparing Shorts kicking to Camerons is absurd. Other than the fact that he can kick it a long way, Cameron kicked the ball low and long and were the perfect ball to mark. Stewie Maxwell might be a better comparison, but Maxwell again was lower over the distance, but both booted in long on just about every occassion. The reason Short has such great metres gained is because he bombs it nearly every time he kicks it. Great for distance and it does clear zones which is a good thing, but it requires a pretty good contested mark to make it efficient.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Stack was kicking @ about 80% last season

Short 72

stack also edged short for 'Effective Disposals' which is pretty impressive given he played fwd a lot

 

[Hoos]

what was with mason utensils bringing out the strut and custom goal celebrations for a nab cup game?

Answer: giant knobhead.

 

[The Mighty]

what was with mason utensils bringing out the strut and custom goal celebrations for a nab cup game?

Bloke's a numb nuts

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I think the coaching staff are very much of that mind, Lst.

In a game where defense and zoning is such a massive thing and every player on the field is drilled to be defensively minded from teenage years, the last thing you want is predictability in forward delivery.

I've been a constant advocate for two kinds of ball movement for a couple of decades now - fast contested 'chaos' ball movement with hard bodied ball winners driving it, and getting in penetrating kicks whose extra 10-15m off the boot plus getting it there quicker just completely confound opposition defenses and often have them contesting from way behind (because they didn't think a long lead was viable), under the ball, out-positioned or chasing back.

2001 was a massive football lesson for me, seeing the difference Leon Cameron's kicking made to what had become a pretty tame unit before then. Bowden was a decent kick, but Cameron had that extra 10-15m with a gorgeous flat arc to his delivery and our marking and leading smaller players just excelled. His kicking literally shrank the football field, made us faster and far more potent in our ball movement.

If you're a last line key defender watching blokes like Cameron and Short deliver inside-50, any position you take up which covers you in front and sideways leaves your back exposed because they have that crucial extra penetration. You can cover yourself against most balls in because you know anything beyond 50-55m is physically beyond the kicker. The rare players who have that extra penetration (Martin is also capable of doing it on his day) make defenders sweat bullets.



I would argue that we actually have more years agreeing with each other than not, RT, although the disagree post count would suggest the diametric opposite.

I suspect we'll have a decade of more agreement than not.

It's always pretty easy to harp on the individual defensive efforts of players whose primary role is not defense when they fail in that department. We're big on roles and playing to strengths, I love this approach. If Short does his thing linking up in key ball movement chains and we outscore the opposition, it really doesn't matter one iota if the odd defensive effort goes astray. We'll weigh his contribution on the potential and actual goals added and as you say the amount he's been picked when fit suggests the coaching staff are happy with the scales.



Absolutely, Karp, I think the only thing preventing some people from seeing the improvement that's already there is that he played very little footy last year. He was underwhelming early in the year (which is not surprising given the general side performance) and what games he did get late in the piece were overshadowed by so much other stuff happening.



Amen, I can't believe this skill is getting rarer instead of the opposite happening. I guess it's not 'fun' to practice at training. I also suspect there's a whole country full of one-footed coaches who just really undervalue the worth of teaching what they 'didn't need.'

Which is kind of sad for all concerned IMO, but what would I know, I still miss the drop-kick disappearing from the game, especially now with the improvement in surfaces making it a more viable option than it often was on the old swamp grounds.

I watched a few footballers when I was a kid who could kick 65-70m drop kicks in still conditions and get the ball to the target significantly quicker than a drop punt by keeping it lower, particularly into the wind. There's a reason it was a part of the game for so long, just like the torp it had its time and place in a game where it was the best technique available.

It’s what sets Jack apart from many of his contemporaries he’s one of the best you’ll see on his opposite foot.

 

[roacheee]

I think the coaching staff are very much of that mind, Lst.

In a game where defense and zoning is such a massive thing and every player on the field is drilled to be defensively minded from teenage years, the last thing you want is predictability in forward delivery.

I've been a constant advocate for two kinds of ball movement for a couple of decades now - fast contested 'chaos' ball movement with hard bodied ball winners driving it, and getting in penetrating kicks whose extra 10-15m off the boot plus getting it there quicker just completely confound opposition defenses and often have them contesting from way behind (because they didn't think a long lead was viable), under the ball, out-positioned or chasing back.

2001 was a massive football lesson for me, seeing the difference Leon Cameron's kicking made to what had become a pretty tame unit before then. Bowden was a decent kick, but Cameron had that extra 10-15m with a gorgeous flat arc to his delivery and our marking and leading smaller players just excelled. His kicking literally shrank the football field, made us faster and far more potent in our ball movement.

If you're a last line key defender watching blokes like Cameron and Short deliver inside-50, any position you take up which covers you in front and sideways leaves your back exposed because they have that crucial extra penetration. You can cover yourself against most balls in because you know anything beyond 50-55m is physically beyond the kicker. The rare players who have that extra penetration (Martin is also capable of doing it on his day) make defenders sweat bullets.



I would argue that we actually have more years agreeing with each other than not, RT, although the disagree post count would suggest the diametric opposite.

I suspect we'll have a decade of more agreement than not.

It's always pretty easy to harp on the individual defensive efforts of players whose primary role is not defense when they fail in that department. We're big on roles and playing to strengths, I love this approach. If Short does his thing linking up in key ball movement chains and we outscore the opposition, it really doesn't matter one iota if the odd defensive effort goes astray. We'll weigh his contribution on the potential and actual goals added and as you say the amount he's been picked when fit suggests the coaching staff are happy with the scales.



Absolutely, Karp, I think the only thing preventing some people from seeing the improvement that's already there is that he played very little footy last year. He was underwhelming early in the year (which is not surprising given the general side performance) and what games he did get late in the piece were overshadowed by so much other stuff happening.



Amen, I can't believe this skill is getting rarer instead of the opposite happening. I guess it's not 'fun' to practice at training. I also suspect there's a whole country full of one-footed coaches who just really undervalue the worth of teaching what they 'didn't need.'

Which is kind of sad for all concerned IMO, but what would I know, I still miss the drop-kick disappearing from the game, especially now with the improvement in surfaces making it a more viable option than it often was on the old swamp grounds.

I watched a few footballers when I was a kid who could kick 65-70m drop kicks in still conditions and get the ball to the target significantly quicker than a drop punt by keeping it lower, particularly into the wind. There's a reason it was a part of the game for so long, just like the torp it had its time and place in a game where it was the best technique available.

Add to this Balta who is probably the longest kick in our team

2014 when Ty was suspended for 4 weeks, griff excelled in the deep forward entries. He'd be 70 out and put it to the top of the goalsquare...certainly caught a few defences napping

 

[Hoos]

It’s what sets Jack apart from many of his contemporaries he’s one of the best you’ll see on his opposite foot.

I think it sets him apart from every other key forward. Not only is he great in the air, whether one on one or in a pack, but he's just as dangerous once the ball hits the ground. And as you say, he's terrific on his opposite foot.

I wouldn't swap him for any other key forward. I honestly don't think I've seen a better key forward at Richmond. Richo was great, as was Michael Roach, but I reckon Jack has them covered.

 

[Dusty0004]

I think it sets him apart from every other key forward. Not only is he great in the air, whether one on one or in a pack, but he's just as dangerous once the ball hits the ground. And as you say, he's terrific on his opposite foot.

I wouldn't swap him for any other key forward. I honestly don't think I've seen a better key forward at Richmond. Richo was great, as was Michael Roach, but I reckon Jack has them covered.

I’d agree with this

 

[Marcel Proust]

Riewoldt is a freak

 

[DontArgue4]

what was with mason utensils bringing out the strut and custom goal celebrations for a nab cup game?

that strut he does after he takes a mark is so cringe-worthy lmaoooo

 

[Marcel Proust]

Short has got and will get plenty of senior opportunities because the coaching staff rightly value kicking penetration as a key weapon.

I fully realise that the concept of the ball going longer and faster into attack being pure football gold is a difficult one for a puzzling number of people to comprehend, but rest assured the coaching staff get it. Elite kicking is a precious commodity and there's plenty of drafts where there's less available than any other elite skill.

Short is the best kick we've had in a very long time, we know he's elite and the coaching staff have made it pretty clear IMO, that they intend to make full use of it.

I'm 100% onboard with that and backing that he'll be a mainstay of future sides if his body holds up. He might play some VFL to work on some issues now and again over the next couple of years, but his long term future is very secure IMO.

Balta being in the team would make up for a lot of what is lost in regards to shorts kicking penetration

Short probable has Stack covered in that front but the selection people will also consider defensive ability, hardness, versatility and other attributes were Stack is arguably well ahead.

Personally Id have Baker higher on the list over Short too