Review Good / Bad / Ugly vs West Coast

[Scorpus]

I didn't notice this and wondered why he dropped out after half time. Other posters have suggested a change in Coaching set-up, or lack of fitness.

Just talking purely at center stoppages, Jones was rarely involved, but not by his fault. Our normal setup had Brad and Keays each wing side of the bounce and Jones defensive side blocking the corridor avenue to West Coast's goal. So that did impact his effectiveness a fair bit as taps rarely went in that direction, I think this was a ploy to try and stop Nic Nat directly attacking with a tap but he rarely opted for this and O'Brien made this move hard

In the first half, there were a few times at center bounce where Jones would actively try and get free. So this might be he starts on the left side of his man, then quickly runs around him to the right. I also saw him just break one way or another to get space. None of these moves came off because the tap wasn't directed his way, but it also didn't hurt us defensively. In fact with Jones moving and breaking free he was often in a position to try and impact multiple contests defensively, which did help marginally on the occasions the Crouch brothers refused to put any body work into their opponents.

In the second half, there were some noticeable center stoppages where Jones was basically held out from the contest with body work to stop him from darting around. A good learning experience for him. One on occasion I mentioned he was still able to get a clearing soccer kick away when the ball went in his direction.

I think if we put Jones more often on the wing side of contests, particularly where Brad Crouch was, he would get involved in the play more. Brad also by virtue of his game style rarely looks to involve his team mates in stoppage work, it's either hack kicks or hospital handballs rather than working into space and finding the free player (who was often Jones or even O'Brien)

 

[Bearded Clam]

Can't drop Dmac after 16 worthless touches. 5 kicks 11 handballs, can't expect much more from an inside grunt. Seriously, what is the point. He's not turning the loss into a win or even reducing the degree of the certain loss. He provides no current or future benefit. But to the decision makers at our club, it's important that he plays.

Its pathetic isnt it...

Sholl couldve played in Mackays place yesterday and instead of us all frothing over Hamill and his 110% effort and skills... we could all be frothing over Hamill AND Sholl..

There is absolutely no reason at all to play Mackay at this point in time and yesterday proved that.

 

[Geoffa32]

Would love a journo to ask Nicks how he rates the impact of a Matt Crouch high possession game.

The answer would be interesting.

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[Klug]

M Crouch has pretty heavy bandaging on his shoulder, could this be a part of why he’s trying to play more outside ATM?

Genuinely trying to find a reason for how far he’s fallen over the last year or so.

He's had heavy bandaging on shoulder for years. There was an incident at Geelong from memory where his arm got pulled right back, which started it.

 

[Bearded Clam]

That kind of money is end if first round pick.

It is what Brisbane got for Rockliff.

North of $800k plus/minus contract length gets us the pick after our first.


We are the only club who will offer a $800k four year deal.

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If he gets the same money as rockcliff did we will get pick 2..

The only reason the rockcliff deal didnt get the lions pick 2 was because rockcliff was 1 year older which had an effect on the final calculation..

See here for explaination..

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.

www.google.com.au

 

[1970crow]

Its pathetic isnt it...

Sholl couldve played in Mackays place yesterday and instead of us all frothing over Hamill and his 110% effort and skills... we could all be frothing over Hamill AND Sholl..

There is absolutely no reason at all to play Mackay at this point in time and yesterday proved that.

He won't be going anywhere if he keeps getting 16 touches. As Hugh said, we don't measure game day impact. We value stats, experience and continuity. Mackay will stay at least until Milera and/or Rat return. He won't be making way for Sholl. Assuming he keeps getting his 14+ touches.

 

[CrowBloke]

The point is you can't throw 6-7 new players in & mix up roles .....and expect any form of cohesive gameplan
You guys expect a RICH cohesive team game & it's not possible.
Get your expectations to where we are as a club ......and enjoy the individual efforts initially ....the team aspects will come later
I'm not aiming this at you specifically, but is a general comment

Fair enough, and thanks .
Pyke played new kids sparingly, and often out of position eg Jones on a HFF.
Nicks has played more kids but still sometimes out of their best position. Why? Because of rusted-on senior players who are dispirited and disunited, or out of form, or injured, many of whom know with certainty a Flag is out of their reach, now . Our senior players look miserable, nervous wrecks, and play accordingly --- gee, thanks Chapman/Roo/Burton et al, especially forthat Camp.
Matt Crouch could be an elite midfielder; we've seen how good he can be, but he's going through the motions now (although he might have been flattened by that shoulder injury, as Golumless suggested above). Dropped for one week because of ineffective disposal, then reinstated after multiple possessions in a scratch-match is not good Coaching.
My expectations?
I want to see focus/concentration/effort, run-and-carry/overlap, looking after teammates (shepherds, and in stoushes, heaps of 1-%ers), picking up loose men if only to make oppo ball-carriers work harder to find a mate, enthusiasm (eg yesterday's first half) and FUN. Yes, fun, from love of the game and your teammates and the joy of playing footy and getting paid a sh*tload to do it. I didn't see much of that in the first 4 games post-C-19. I haven't said anything about winning. That'll come, but losing so dismally was unacceptable.

I'm repeating myself to say this, but yesterday was the first time I've seen the Crows play as if they had a game plan with direct instruction from the Coach to run-and-overlap, play on every chance etc.

 

[CrowBloke]

Just talking purely at center stoppages, Jones was rarely involved, but not by his fault. Our normal setup had Brad and Keays each wing side of the bounce and Jones defensive side blocking the corridor avenue to West Coast's goal. So that did impact his effectiveness a fair bit as taps rarely went in that direction, I think this was a ploy to try and stop Nic Nat directly attacking with a tap but he rarely opted for this and O'Brien made this move hard

In the first half, there were a few times at center bounce where Jones would actively try and get free. So this might be he starts on the left side of his man, then quickly runs around him to the right. I also saw him just break one way or another to get space. None of these moves came off because the tap wasn't directed his way, but it also didn't hurt us defensively. In fact with Jones moving and breaking free he was often in a position to try and impact multiple contests defensively, which did help marginally on the occasions the Crouch brothers refused to put any body work into their opponents.

In the second half, there were some noticeable center stoppages where Jones was basically held out from the contest with body work to stop him from darting around. A good learning experience for him. One on occasion I mentioned he was still able to get a clearing soccer kick away when the ball went in his direction.

I think if we put Jones more often on the wing side of contests, particularly where Brad Crouch was, he would get involved in the play more. Brad also by virtue of his game style rarely looks to involve his team mates in stoppage work, it's either hack kicks or hospital handballs rather than working into space and finding the free player (who was often Jones or even O'Brien)

Jeez, you really think about what's going on .
Do you watch multiple replays, pause-and-look to work all this out? I hardly ever pick up the kind of detail you post about.
Based on your comments, I'd guess WCE put a fair bit of thought into nullifying Jones, at half time.

 

[Tex200]

Been a little disappointed in Frampton. Post trade, lot of talk seemed to be he had a bit of a c bomb in him. Was a bit of a prick at SANFL level and then you see him get into a blow up against Hartigan at training. Always think that's great in a big bodied FF yet I haven't seen him crash a pack yet. His one goal today came off the back of McHenry blatantly holding his man (while the other 3 WCE players watched). You'll take it for sure, but again, that was basically an uncontested mark at the end of it.

He had a ripping kick to Walker last week which was great to see yet our problem in the forward line is we really need a bash and crash FF. We've got a lot of guys who are great on the lead but we're without someone that can just knock a pack down and bring the ball to ground (on the rare occasions it makes it that far).

I haven't seen Frampton play prior to the Crows soo I'm not sure if that's just not in his game or if it just hasn't come yet. Hoping for the latter of the two and for it to come soon as it would be super handy to have in our forward line.

Really?

Ive been very surprised- Billy’s a very ordinary player that wouldn’t be getting a game anywhere else. That said I can’t fault his effort and will. He’s even kicked a few goals. Remarkable really.

Most importantly he’s exposed EH as a bit of a pretender. More talent in his little finger but wasn’t prepared to fight Billy for his spot.

 

[skam85]

Also a goal, but was a quiet day.

10 goals this year and ave 4 tackles a game playing the Murphy role...

I'd take Butler for pick 56 everyday

I would too, but his numbers wouldn't be that high in our team currently

 

[skam85]

So much this. How many of us regular folks also suffered with it? I know I did. Took me three weeks to “grieve” my regular life. My son (2nd year uni) also went through a tough period where he was missing the social contact. These footballers wouldn’t be immune to that either.

So why are we so much worse than every other team? Port being a direct and accurate comparison. They don't seem to be "grieving" too much.

It's a giant cop-out

 

[Geoffa32]

So why are we so much worse than every other team? Port being a direct and accurate comparison. They don't seem to be "grieving" too much.

It's a giant cop-out

Our senior players have a sense of entitlement.


The kids look fit and ready to go.

Our senior guys are playing like the season restarting ruined their holiday.

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[Scrogdogg]

Just looked at the stats.

We won possessions +40 (324-284)
BUT
Lost Inside 50s by more than double (49-24)

That's a staggering statistic and shows that the game style/coaching is wayyy off.

Yep something is way off. We seem to have no method of moving the ball forward, particularly off halfback. Half of yesterday's game vision stemmed to be Crow faces, bewildered, unsure, looking left, right, repeatedly, and then often just passing off to make it someone else's problem. Is it simply players not working hard enough

 

[Scrogdogg]

Pleasantly surprised with Keays .....good tagger, and at least kicks the ball long with some penetration and direction

Kid has get up and go ! Contrasts very favourably with many of the seniors.

 

[Scorpus]

Jeez, you really think about what's going on .
Do you watch multiple replays, pause-and-look to work all this out? I hardly ever pick up the kind of detail you post about.
Based on your comments, I'd guess WCE put a fair bit of thought into nullifying Jones, at half time.

I watched each center bounce about 5 times each

 

[Scrogdogg]

Really?

Ive been very surprised- Billy’s a very ordinary player that wouldn’t be getting a game anywhere else. That said I can’t fault his effort and will. He’s even kicked a few goals. Remarkable really.

Most importantly he’s exposed EH as a bit of a pretender. More talent in his little finger but wasn’t prepared to fight Billy for his spot.

I don't see Billy as a second-effort player.

 

[dylan123]

Really?

Ive been very surprised- Billy’s a very ordinary player that wouldn’t be getting a game anywhere else. That said I can’t fault his effort and will. He’s even kicked a few goals. Remarkable really.

Most importantly he’s exposed EH as a bit of a pretender. More talent in his little finger but wasn’t prepared to fight Billy for his spot.

Always interesting where two people watching the same game walk away with opposite opinions!

I was kind of expecting him to be a bit like Fog where he looks to bash and crash on purpose but haven't seen it at all - unless I've just missed the rare times he's done it (it is possible as I can't say attention levels are at an all time high).

Obviously no issues with him playing ahead of EH and EH shown nothing to warrant a selection, more along the lines that he just doesn't seem to be a long term option.

 

[Big Crow]

Ugly:
Copping Dwayne Russell commentary for how many weeks in a row?

 

[pjcrows]

Yep something is way off. We seem to have no method of moving the ball forward, particularly off halfback. Half of yesterday's game vision stemmed to be Crow faces, bewildered, unsure, looking left, right, repeatedly, and then often just passing off to make it someone else's problem. Is it simply players not working hard enough

Some is "effort" but I'm getting the feeling it's structure and coaching. You couldn't really fault effort yesterday, or against Freo.

 

[jenny61_99]

Good:
ROB - he did win around the ground, but he lost the hitouts 24-12, so i guess his notes came true
Smithers - played a good game, much happier with his distribution
The Kids - keep showing glimpses of something special: Hamill looks to be a gun, McHenry, Jones looked very good early (loved that tackle), McPherson didn't look overawed, McAsey looked good.
I liked us changing and running it out of defence, we definitely surprised WCE
Brouch - played well, but it looks like he needs support, another top-line mid, right now - either he leaves at the end of the year, or we buy an A+ so he's not doing it all himself.
Defence was good.

Bad:
It's our senior players looking like they're playing to a different gameplan - our old gameplan that sucked.
Mrouch - needs to reinvent himself
Sloane - needs a rest
The move from mid to forward line, yuck. Very inexperienced.
Not sure what Mackay brought to the game yesterday.

Ugly:
Stengle - why is he better than Murphy again? I didn't see anything.


I'd bet on WCE by 32, we won by 33, so I'm happy.
The kids looked good.
Some tweaks required.
We're last by at least 2 games.
We've had what 5 debutants so far? That's good. There's some more to come too I think.

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still think we need to give Stengle a solid run at it. He was trying too hard I thought (you know, when you just try so hard that everything goes Pffft?

 

[CrowBloke]

What os the chairman's role in any board,
If the board are making disgraceful decisions the board must go collectively
Big problems boards can't be stood down generally each menber sees out their term and is re appointed
Its up to the AFL who they approve on the majority of the board
The members can re elect Jamo and probably will, but whats wrong with that its purely democratic
I would say if our whole board was elected bu members Roo would voted in, would you dispute that
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This is as fine an unintelligible non sequitur as you've ever posted.
I take that back --- you've outdone even yourself, and didn't address any of the points Murray2503 raised. What does "I would say if our whole board was elected bu members Roo would voted in, would you dispute that" mean?
Please.

 

[CrowBloke]

the issue still remains regarding 2 major problems I see:
1. we are not a destination club
2. We can not retain talent

Both issues are fixable, in fact almost both at once. If the Crows had:
--- eg Peggy Neale (or someone as tough, clear and focussed) as President
--- eg Alistair Clarkson as Head Coach, or a Senior AFL Coach with experience, presence and history for tough fairness, and ----- solid Assistants (even a Senior Mentor for Nicks eg Roos/ Lyon),
then players would be queuing up to play here, and stay with us.

 

[scoota10]

So why are we so much worse than every other team? Port being a direct and accurate comparison. They don't seem to be "grieving" too much.

It's a giant cop-out

Slow Reaction on a lot of players behalf. Just watch Mcrouch to slow to move the ball on, then he put Pressure on all players forward of him

 

[CrowBloke]

1) Not sure what Mackay brought to the game yesterday.
2) Stengle - why is he better than Murphy again? I didn't see anything.
3) I'd bet on WCE by 32, we won by 33, so I'm happy.

1) That's not a hater's comment, although there are plenty of Mackay-haters in here.
I think I know what you mean.
I saw Mackay do some good running/overlap in that first half but so did many others, so meh.
He had one outstanding pass to (whom, McAdam?) in the forward pocket on the far side, first quarter, only noticed because it was rare. I can't remember anything he did in the second half, but I'd stopped looking for him anyway.
So, if it's a choice between an experienced senior player who rarely impacts or changes the momentum of a game, or a talented junior, I'd go with the junior every time.
2) Nor did I. jenny61_99 thinks he tried too hard. I thought he tried as hard as he could --- maybe --- and is just not good enough. Out of Murphy/Stengle, my choice would be Murphy, but I really-REALLY hope Stengle proves me wrong if they stick with him.

3) "we won by 33"?? What you mean 'we', Paleface? *lmao*

 

[Golumless]

Some is "effort" but I'm getting the feeling it's structure and coaching. You couldn't really fault effort yesterday, or against Freo.

Effort is definitely getting better as we're slowly getting younger.

That midfield is just a massive problem area though in that regard. Just the lack of defensive work from the Crouches and Sloane, and how slow they are is really killing us at the moment.

Still, we've stemmed the bleeding at least and as you say, we're looking better then we were a fortnight ago.