List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[TheMase]

Happy for Aliir to stay but I’d be offering him a new contract if that is our direction and would test his will to stay. If he wasn’t to sign that contract I’d seriously consider moving him on rather than having no leverage in 21.

 

[SeanM]

I don't know much about Hickey. My main concern is whether he is injury prone or not.

One of our key requirements for a backup ruck is the likelihood they will be available when needed. Last season all our rucks had injury issues. And we had periods where we very little ruck cover. So for the next season we would hope Hickey is mostly available to play.

Also with a three year contract we would not want him to be in rehab for that whole period either.

It does seem like we are getting desperate. In the last two seasons we have gone through periods with inadequate ruck cover. And it has probably has cost a few games especially in 2019 when Sinclair missed the end of the season. So as list managers they would not want the same thing to happen three seasons in a row especially if we are trying to climb the table.

 

[Blacky]

And drafting quality kids, and winning games without some of our best players (including the 2 guys who "carry us"), and retaining so many who we want to retain, and changing our game plan, and seeing guys turning their careers around (Cunningham, Fox, Melican), and seeing youngsters like McCartin and Rowbottom playing the kind of footy that could see them become genuinely elite??

No? None of that garners a mention?

McCartin and Rowbottom are great, but I think we have more issues than bright spots at present.

Im not sure that Fox and Melican are best 22 either. At least not in a decent side

 

[caesar88]

I don't know much about Hickey. My main concern is whether he is injury prone or not.

One of our key requirements for a backup ruck is the likelihood they will be available when needed. Last season all our rucks had injury issues. And we had periods where we very little ruck cover. So for the next season we would hope Hickey is mostly available to play.

Also with a three year contract we would not want him to be in rehab for that whole period either.

We just need more rucks who can do it at senior level on the list so that it's not Sinclair or bust.

Aliir in defence shouldn't be messed with, but there were times this year where even Dawson was rucking.

 

[caesar88]

McCartin and Rowbottom are great, but I think we have more issues than bright spots at present.

Im not sure that Fox and Melican are best 22 either. At least not in a decent side

I reckon any club not contending probably has more issues than bright spots.

What are your thoughts on the point I made yesterday, which is that if we had more games this year out of Buddy, Heeney, Rampe, and to a lesser extent Naismith, that we win every close game that we lost? In which case we have five extra wins and finish equal 7th. I understand it's hypothetical and tempting to dismiss, but are you really going to deny that a) they wouldn't have made a massive difference in those matches, and b) that 7th would've been a great finish for where the club is at?

 

[Bear31]

McCartin and Rowbottom are great, but I think we have more issues than bright spots at present.

Im not sure that Fox and Melican are best 22 either. At least not in a decent side

I hope the sun shines on you today

 

[Millky95]

I reckon any club not contending probably has more issues than bright spots.

What are your thoughts on the point I made yesterday, which is that if we had more games this year out of Buddy, Heeney, Rampe, and to a lesser extent Naismith, that we win every close game that we lost? In which case we have five extra wins and finish equal 7th. I understand it's hypothetical and tempting to dismiss, but are you really going to deny that a) they wouldn't have made a massive difference in those matches, and b) that 7th would've been a great finish for where the club is at?

Hard disagree given we had narrows wins over the likes of Hawthorn, Adelaide, North as well as complete s**t shows against Calrton and Freo

Deserved to finish where we are and those names wouldn't have fixed much imo

 

[caesar88]

Hard disagree given we had narrows wins over the likes of Hawthorn, Adelaide, North as well as complete sh*t shows against Calrton and Freo

Deserved to finish where we are and those names wouldn't have fixed much imo

You are kidding yourself if you think having Buddy, Heeney and Rampe out there against every single opponent we faced wouldn't have made us a much better team.

 

[Millky95]

You are kidding yourself if you think having Buddy, Heeney and Rampe out there against every single opponent we faced wouldn't have made us a much better team.

Buddy might have kicked more goals that other's didn't and Rampe saved some but at the end of the day we lose in the middle and that causes us to lose games. They might have won one or two more but being Buddy reliant could have easily cost us more goals as our movement forward for the most part is poor

 

[Blacky]

I reckon any club not contending probably has more issues than bright spots.

What are your thoughts on the point I made yesterday, which is that if we had more games this year out of Buddy, Heeney, Rampe, and to a lesser extent Naismith, that we win every close game that we lost? In which case we have five extra wins and finish equal 7th. I understand it's hypothetical and tempting to dismiss, but are you really going to deny that a) they wouldn't have made a massive difference in those matches, and b) that 7th would've been a great finish for where the club is at?

My thoughts are that all clubs deal with injuries and it’s hard for me to just assume that happens and be happy with things.

 

[Blacky]

I hope the sun shines on you today

My life is good. I don’t need to live in fantasy land to get through the day.

 

[caesar88]

My thoughts are that all clubs deal with injuries and it’s hard for me to just assume that happens and be happy with things.

My point is that we were three non-injuries away from things suddenly not being so bad at all.

 

[caesar88]

Buddy might have kicked more goals that other's didn't and Rampe saved some but at the end of the day we lose in the middle and that causes us to lose games. They might have won one or two more but being Buddy reliant could have easily cost us more goals as our movement forward for the most part is poor

Disagree completely

 

[SeanM]

We just need more rucks who can do it at senior level on the list so that it's not Sinclair or bust.

Aliir in defence shouldn't be messed with, but there were times this year where even Dawson was rucking.

I agree we need a mature ruck. Even some of the highly rated younger rucks like English can get dominated in the contest because of a lack of experience or they get out bodied. So I think we might be hesitant to rely on someone from the state leagues or a young ruck who has never played much senior football.

For next season I think we might hope for
Sinclair
Mature ruck
McLean
Developing ruck from the draft/rookie draft (or possibly keep Amartey)
Naismith (Injured)

 

[Ehswan]

I personally have liked reading the more positive posts today. I think the future is positive. I actually don't mind hickey getting 3 as he seems a better backup or even number 1 than any of our other available back ups.
I also thought in previous seasons that allir was one of our potential stars and hope that he can get back to that trajectory.
I know the club like all other clubs has made some recruiting and trading blunders but I like what seems to be the plan at the moment of not going for any good player at any price and sticking with a more patient build.
I remember when we got rhyce shaw

Rhyce Shaw

Age

42

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

12.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

313.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

on the last day of the trade i shuddered at the thought .. That turned out ok. I think Lewis Taylor

28

Lewis Taylor

Age

29

Ht

174cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.6

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

9.6

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

3star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.2

4star

could still be very serviceable although I can't see it with Gray but lm excited by our best team on the park for next year with the new draftees and natural progression of the young guys.

 

[Swansujelly]

isn't Hickey also doing some coaching at WC? Not a bad way to get some dollars split from the admin side into the playing list side, plus he can play.

 

[SeanM]

What are your thoughts on the point I made yesterday, which is that if we had more games this year out of Buddy, Heeney, Rampe, and to a lesser extent Naismith, that we win every close game that we lost? In which case we have five extra wins and finish equal 7th. I understand it's hypothetical and tempting to dismiss, but are you really going to deny that a) they wouldn't have made a massive difference in those matches, and b) that 7th would've been a great finish for where the club is at?

I am always cautious about doing hypothetical exercises.

Because I think every club can do the same where they look at where they missed key players or lost close games. But the same thing could happen next season where Papley gets injured or we lose lots of midfielders at one time or lose games we could have won. So I think we have to expect to lose key players and be able to deal with it.

Though looking at the ladder for the last two seasons, we are not too far away from mid table. In 2019 towards the end of the season we were close to clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon who finished just outside the top 8. And this season we were not too far away from clubs like Carlton and Fremantle who finished mid table.

A few wins at the end of the season can make a big difference to being bottom 3/4 or mid table. If we won our last game we would have jumped three places to 13th.

 

[Bear31]

My life is good. I don’t need to live in fantasy land to get through the day.

I just wanted the sun to shine on you and warm you. Its nice to sit in the sun and feel the warmth.

 

[Kirkswan]

WOW! 457 pages and nothing concrete has happened yet...

I came in about 100 pages ago, read every 10th page and all I've got is that there is a report that we might have made an offer to an older ruck for 3 years???

We are required to use a certain percentage of our cap aren't we? So we do have to make offers and pay the dollars?

So could it be possible that we are bringing in depth to insure against further injury and to maintain our minimum cap, to ensure that in 2-3 years when we have better idea exactly how good are youngsters are going to be, and exactly what we are short, we'll have the cap space available to offer significant deals? And might this be at exactly the time when some of our big names such as Kennedy and Rampe are likely to retire?

As always, just my thoughts...

 

[BloodySwan]

I'd like nothing more than to see him there on big money and further ruin them.

Cannot believe anyone would want him at the Swans. Got asked to leave Freo, his hometown club's presentation in the first 30 minutes, didn't he?

Cannot believe anyone would want Rhyce Shaw

Rhyce Shaw

Age

42

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

12.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

313.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

. Got too many off field issues that the club his father played for and he grew up a part of don't want him anymore. The fact that he would only just us a 3rd round downgrade should highlight how much we should keep clear of him.

If we interview him and want him, I back our club to turn him around

 

[Bear31]

WOW! 457 pages and nothing concrete has happened yet...

I came in about 100 pages ago, read every 10th page and all I've got is that there is a report that we might have made an offer to an older ruck for 3 years???

We are required to use a certain percentage of our cap aren't we? So we do have to make offers and pay the dollars?

So could it be possible that we are bringing in depth to insure against further injury and to maintain our minimum cap, to ensure that in 2-3 years when we have better idea exactly how good are youngsters are going to be, and exactly what we are short, we'll have the cap space available to offer significant deals? And might this be at exactly the time when some of our big names such as Kennedy and Rampe are likely to retire?

As always, just my thoughts...

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[SeanM]

Traditionally I think ruck is one of those positions where teams are happy to have a bit of depth. Where you could have 2-3 mature rucks and 1-2 young developing rucks.

So even if Hickey eventually becomes our 3rd choice ruck, it is probably something we need anyway given our ruck issues over the last two seasons.

In hindsight maybe we should have been taking more young rucks at the draft with late picks and sticking them in the reserves. But maybe we were spooked by players like Nankervis and Cameron leaving for first team opportunities. And thought that Naismith would stay injury free.

 

[swansfan51]

swansfan51 your thoughts of Hickey?

He would IMO be the best ruckman on our list and I don't expect he would command a huge salary.

He has all of Naismith's strengths:
- being tall

plus also has some other skills and actually provides some effort and a marking presence around the ground. He had a very solid year for West Coast last season and would provide us with an alternative to Sinclair

 

[Tedeski]

When I saw someone earlier say Aliir for Hayes and pick 46 I immediately thought:

46 to WCE for Hickey (MAYBE something back)

Naismith to retire

We keep one of McLean and Amartey... which I would go McLean as I think he could be a serviceable player (at best) whilst I am not as confident about Amartey. (I am an advocate for this regardless of what happens personally)

Not saying I want the above to happen but it would better contextualise getting a guy like Hickey in for a few years.

Hayes wont come if Hickey is coming Masey. He is third in line again.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The reason I have that timeline is because I've been consistent all along that when Aliir is left to be a defender, he becomes a massive asset to the team, and unfortunately Horse has just given me too much material to work with.

Fair enough if you really don't rate Aliir that much. I can't be bothered going through your post history to find out if you've been consistent on this point or not, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But what irks me is that there is never a mention of these faults that Aliir supposedly has, until he is out of form, and then suddenly they've always been a major issue and he's expendable.

My opinion would definitely have changed throughout the period I’m sure. Not sure why I can’t change opinion as his abilities good or bad become exposed.

When he fails to have these flaws i definitely rate him. It’s when a repeat pattern becomes observable that you call it. In my view it is with him. Does the good outweigh the bad? Questionable. Especially if earmarked for defence permanently. I liked his play forward to consider further.

If as you say it’s a lack of consistent time in position then perhaps he can become high quality. And if he can then I certainly would change opinion. The problem is though that spatial awareness good or bad is something unlikely to change several years into a career. Therefore I think we are stuck with what we see. Occasionally getting caught when he shouldn’t. Occasionally losing his man.

I have to say mate that this business of him dictating he not play chop out ruck OR he leaves does not sit well with me. Its him placing himself ahead of the team with an ultimatum. Not a good look