Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[peetoo]

Cos #1 picks are always the best in the draft. Not

Hodge, one of the best, took from 2001 to almost 2008 to look like the best

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What is a 'finished' list?

The reactions from some Hawthorn supporters to their club being mentioned is bizarre. Well and truly in the conversation for last place in 2023.

No issue with finishing last, it's likely

Its the comment "are destined to be mid table as a finished product at best" that i take issue with

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Has to be a side with a coach not fearful of tanking

I would suggest both north's coach and the hawks coach are comfortable with their job security and may play the long game by tanking

This bolded comment surprises me, as we’re talking about too super competitive and driven coaches who come from one of the most successful clubs in the last 60 years. Losing is not something they would ever aspire to.

Clarkson and Mitchell will not tank.

They’ve both had opportunities to do so and haven’t in previous years, to the point where some Hawthorn supporters have been pissed that we’ve won late season games and “ruined” our draft pick.

 

[Obeanie1]

The amusing part is that if we’d have kept Shiels and McEvoy they’d have been one of the first players named in the “players that have gone one year too long” thread if they weren’t already named in it in 2022, now people think we should’ve kept them despite having multiple players that would’ve taken their games in 2023 and beyond.

What is amusing is you you frequently misinterpret what people are saying. Either you just dont get it or you deliberately do it to suit your agenda.

Feel free to quote anyone who said the Hawks should have retained Sheils and McEvoy.

Both those players were well past it and due to retire. Shiels obviously has a year maybe two left and is a good pickup at North to suit there circumstances but McEvoy was done.

The only reason they have been mentioned along with O'Mera, Mitchell and Gunston is that it weakens the Hawks depth losing them all at once. And the lack of a clear #1 ruck replacement also indicates shallow depth. Not that the Hawks should have retained Shiels and McEvoy.

 

[Obeanie1]

No issue with finishing last, it's likely

Its the comment "are destined to be mid table as a finished product at best" that i take issue with

Yep. People who post that sort of comment are trolling.

Hawks and Eagles may well battle it out in 2023 for the spoon but great clubs dont stay down for long.

Hawks have a very good coach and have gone the youth approach. They will start climbing the ladder againin 2024.

No one really knows how long it will take to make finals again and contend. Good clubs do it better than others.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

West Coast will probably tank again, it depends if they can pinch enough wins at home to not take the spoon. Norths list is stilll really bad, how much of a genius is clarko..

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What is amusing is you you frequently misinterpret what people are saying. Either you just dont get it or you deliberately do it to suit your agenda.

Feel free to quote anyone who said the Hawks should have retained Sheils and McEvoy.

Both those players were well past it and due to retire. Shiels obviously has a year maybe two left and is a good pickup at North to suit there circumstances but McEvoy was done.

The only reason they have been mentioned along with O'Mera, Mitchell and Gunston is that it weakens the Hawks depth losing them all at once. And the lack of a clear #1 ruck replacement also indicates shallow depth. Not that the Hawks should have retained Shiels and McEvoy.

Clear # 1 Ruck Replacement is Reeves, that is obvious to most, he is the clear current replacement, thats easy to see

To what standard of a replacement is the question

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What is amusing is you you frequently misinterpret what people are saying. Either you just dont get it or you deliberately do it to suit your agenda.

Feel free to quote anyone who said the Hawks should have retained Sheils and McEvoy.

Both those players were well past it and due to retire. Shiels obviously has a year maybe two left and is a good pickup at North to suit there circumstances but McEvoy was done.

The only reason they have been mentioned along with O'Mera, Mitchell and Gunston is that it weakens the Hawks depth losing them all at once. And the lack of a clear #1 ruck replacement also indicates shallow depth. Not that the Hawks should have retained Shiels and McEvoy.

mY aGEnDa!
It’s nothing more than to support my club and fire back some observations or arguments at those who want to be overly critical of the Hawks, like pretty much everyone else on Bigfooty.


Hawks have a clear number 1 ruck to anyone who’s been paying attention, it just so happens that we’ve traded in another who will compete with him for that role.

The young Hawk who could be a top 25 player in the AFL in 12 months

“I think this blokes upside is enormous for the Hawks.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[Joao]

North have just been so awful that even if Clarko improves them by 30% they still have a % of 72 which could still get you the spoon. I think they get better, and probably a fair bit, but it might not be enough to avoid it.

 

[Gavin Excell]

West Coast will probably tank again, it depends if they can pinch enough wins at home to not take the spoon. Norths list is stilll really bad, how much of a genius is clarko..

Don't think North's list is as awful as results last year suggest.

Can win 4-5 but that still might not be enough to avoid spoon

 

[Yoda_]

Don't think North's list is as awful as results last year suggest.

Can win 4-5 but that still might not be enough to avoid spoon

This is what most North supporters seem to be failing to acknowledge, just how far back they need to come to even catch up.

 

[peetoo]

For all hindsight saying Clarko inherited a great list to work with ‘the oft quoted ‘core’

It took 4 games to get a win in 2005, 5 wins total 82%
Sammy had 2 wins and a one point loss by round 4, 8 wins total 89%

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Don't think North's list is as awful as results last year suggest.

Can win 4-5 but that still might not be enough to avoid spoon

Clarkson is a defense first coach. He loves zones, he loves defensive systems, and he doesn’t mind dour negative football that negates the oppositions ball movement which can be frustrating to watch.

North will be better for that, but how much remains to be seen. They still need to score.

There’s every chance that they improve their ability to lock down on teams and improve in the wins column.

 

[Obeanie1]

mY aGEnDa!
It’s nothing more than to support my club and fire back some observations or arguments at those who want to be overly critical of the Hawks, like pretty much everyone else on Bigfooty.


Hawks have a clear number 1 ruck to anyone who’s been paying attention, it just so happens that we’ve traded in another who will compete with him for that role.

The young Hawk who could be a top 25 player in the AFL in 12 months

“I think this blokes upside is enormous for the Hawks.”

www.sen.com.au

Every club has more than 1 ruck. Dahhhh.

Eagles have 4 but in reality non are up to taking over the #1 right now. BigHawk23 at least is smart enough to understand Reeves may have 1st dibs but he may not become a proven long term solution.

Reeves has shown promise and capability just like Meek. But non are locks as obvious #1 AFL quality rucks. That much is crystal clear to those who open both eyes.

As to everyone else on Big Footy is talking down the Hawks and you feel the need to defend your club. You seem to twist facts and ignore others to suit your view alot. No list is perfect and when it's the youngest and least experienced it obviously has a huge scope for improvement. It isn't wrong to own that and role with it.

The Eagles list has major issues that need addressing and that will take several years to fix. I admitt that and it's just where they are in the rebuild cycle. It is what it is.

But I'm not going to war with everyone on Big Footy over it. I'm happy to accept the criticism where it's real and will push back on trolls who make stupid wide sweeping statements.

And happy to engage and agree with posters with a balanced view even if discussing the shortcomings of my clubs current list.

 

[Obeanie1]

West Coast will probably tank again, it depends if they can pinch enough wins at home to not take the spoon. Norths list is stilll really bad, how much of a genius is clarko..

Hmmmm.

Have we changed the definition of tanking recently?

Must have missed that.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Hmmmm.

Have we changed the definition of tanking recently?

Must have missed that.

Well, the players just giving up and not trying like they have the past 2 seasons.. pretty much is tanking

 

[aussierulesrules]

North have just been so awful that even if Clarko improves them by 30% they still have a % of 72 which could still get you the spoon. I think they get better, and probably a fair bit, but it might not be enough to avoid it.

Cunnington alone makes them a significantly better team.

If he’s back to anything like his best and full fitness that could be worth another couple of wins on its own.

 

[Psicosis]

Essendon I feel won't be bottom 4. Too much talent on the list

Unbelievable

Absurdity aside, didn’t Essendon finish bottom 4 in 2022?

 

[Yoda_]

Unbelievable

Absurdity aside, didn’t Essendon finish bottom 4 in 2022?

will finish above North, Hawthorn, West Coast, possibly GWS, Adelaide and Gold Coast could very really fall. Who knows with St.Kilda, Richmond or Port.

 

[Psicosis]

will finish above North, Hawthorn, West Coast, possibly GWS, Adelaide and Gold Coast could very really fall. Who knows with St.Kilda, Richmond or Port.

Yeah I disagree, but understand that Dons fans expect them to bounce every off-season.

Whilst I don’t think you’ll spoon, I’m very confident you’ll be in 15th-17th range.

 

[Yoda_]

Yeah I disagree, but understand that Dons fans expect them to bounce every off-season.

Whilst I don’t think you’ll spoon, I’m very confident you’ll be in 15th-17th range.

That's ok, I'm just more confident we will finish above North, Adelaide, Hawthorn one of GWS/WCE that is your bottom 4.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Every club has more than 1 ruck. Dahhhh.

Eagles have 4 but in reality non are up to taking over the #1 right now. BigHawk23 at least is smart enough to understand Reeves may have 1st dibs but he may not become a proven long term solution.

Reeves has shown promise and capability just like Meek. But non are locks as obvious #1 AFL quality rucks. That much is crystal clear to those who open both eyes.

As to everyone else on Big Footy is talking down the Hawks and you feel the need to defend your club. You seem to twist facts and ignore others to suit your view alot. No list is perfect and when it's the youngest and least experienced it obviously has a huge scope for improvement. It isn't wrong to own that and role with it.

The Eagles list has major issues that need addressing and that will take several years to fix. I admitt that and it's just where they are in the rebuild cycle. It is what it is.

But I'm not going to war with everyone on Big Footy over it. I'm happy to accept the criticism where it's real and will push back on trolls who make stupid wide sweeping statements.

And happy to engage and agree with posters with a balanced view even if discussing the shortcomings of my clubs current list.

You keep saying that we don’t have a number 1 ruck to take over from McEvoy, and we clearly do. It’s odd.

 

[Yoda_]

You keep saying that we don’t have a number 1 ruck to take over from McEvoy, and we clearly do. It’s odd.

Every club has a #1 ruck, the one at Hawthorn isn't as clear cut one at so many clubs. Reeves &/or Meek are both relatively unproven, they could very well surprise many and make it there own in 2023. As it stands though, the one(s) at Hawthorn are very unproven.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Every club has a #1 ruck, the one at Hawthorn isn't as clear cut one at so many clubs. Reeves &/or Meek are both relatively unproven, they could very well surprise many and make it there own in 2023. As it stands though, the one(s) at Hawthorn are very unproven.

Reeves was 6th in the comp for hitouts per game last season.
His work around the ground needs some refinement but he possesses the base skill for a quality ruck heading into 2023.

 

[Obeanie1]

You keep saying that we don’t have a number 1 ruck to take over from McEvoy, and we clearly do. It’s odd.

Stop playing silly word games. A Mod should act with more maturity.

Reeves, a #1 ruck with 17 career games in four years?

Followed by Meek with 15 career games over four years.

Neither would be #1 rucks at any other club. That is what I said. Others have agreed.

You are incredibly defensive about things that are simply common sense. Hawks rucks are raw and yet to establish themselves as the true #1 ruck anywhere. They have potential and may even become your next premiership ruck but right now there is very little between them. Neither is a mile ahead of the other. That's the point.

Edit: Interesting you are the only one Loling at this post. Says a fair bit actually.