Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[Purple Suit]

More than happy to wager the Eagles will finish higher than the Hawks.

Significantly more quality senior players still on the list and some nice kids coming through.

How many games are Hawthorn giving up home ground advantage for playing in Tassie?

The senior players are getting old plus injury prone. The most promising kids have either not played a game or coming off major injuries.

I see more promise from the Hawks despite their cuts. Mid tier much bettter and kids further along.

 

[Obeanie1]

Disagree. More laughable opinion… hilarious in fact. “A final opinion”… we are all having an opinion on everyone’s lists… which change every year… silly comment.

Didnt you project 3 years of low finishes for the Hawks. That is what you are being challenged on.

Now you are saying you may change your opinion next year. And the year after you may have a different one again.

Rebuilds do take time but some clubs do it better than others. Just look at Collingwood v North or Saint Kilda. Eagles turn things around faster than many others as well.

Hawks and Eagles will hit the draft hard this year and next, look at FA's that don't cost picks. Then look at using top picks on trades.

And over that period they will slowly climb back into contention. Not 2023 sure that would be incredible. But 2024 and 2025 I can see them getting closer to the top 8 again.

 

[Giant Pete]

Didnt you project 3 years of low finishes for the Hawks. That is what you are being challenged on.

Now you are saying you may change your opinion next year. And the year after you may have a different one again.

Rebuilds do take time but some clubs do it better than others. Just look at Collingwood v North or Saint Kilda. Eagles turn things around faster than many others as well.

Hawks and Eagles will hit the draft hard this year and next, look at FA's that don't cost picks. Then look at using top picks on trades.

And over that period they will slowly climb back into contention. Not 2023 sure that would be incredible. But 2024 and 2025 I can see them getting closer to the top 8 again.

You’ve confused me with someone else. Yes I think the Hawks list is bog average - even considering they are in a rebuilding phase.

 

[Obeanie1]

The senior players are getting old plus injury prone. The most promising kids have either not played a game or coming off major injuries.

I see more promise from the Hawks despite their cuts. Mid tier much bettter and kids further along.

No argument about fitness levels for the older guys over 30.

However Sheed, Cole, Allen, Chesser, L Edwards are not old and broken down.

The likes of Darling, Yeo, Duggan, Clark, West, Waterman and Petrucelle are all under 30 and had injury interrupted seasons. Darling self imposed missed all the preseason and spent 12 weeks getting fit. Played ok later in the year.

McGovern, Hurn, Shuey, Nic, Cripps and Gaff are the over 30's you are referring to. Of those only Nic and Gov's class are irreplaceable at this time. Cripps is looking very fit ATM. Gov was leading the B&F before his impact injury and has also has slimmed down over the off season.

So far so good this preseason.

 

[Bradkli]

Eagles- 7-9 wins

Hawks- 5-7 wins

West Coast’s advantage is their senior players, something we don’t have. Fergus greene, a VFL player last season is 25 and our 8th oldest player.

Guys like Gaff, Hurn, Shuey, Yeo, Nic Nat, McGovern and Darling when fit (yes I know they haven’t been in recent seasons) are still quality players. Last season was a write off for the eagles due to a lot of factors.

 

[Purple Suit]

No argument about fitness levels for the older guys over 30.

However Sheed, Cole, Allen, Chesser, L Edwards are not old and broken down.

The likes of Darling, Yeo, Duggan, Clark, West, Waterman and Petrucelle are all under 30 and had injury interrupted seasons. Darling self imposed missed all the preseason and spent 12 weeks getting fit. Played ok later in the year.

McGovern, Hurn, Shuey, Nic, Cripps and Gaff are the over 30's you are referring to. Of those only Nic and Gov's class are irreplaceable at this time. Cripps is looking very fit ATM. Gov was leading the B&F before his impact injury and has also has slimmed down over the off season.

So far so good this preseason.

Chesser hasn't played a game yet, not sure why he gets so much attention as a future star when he lasted 5 minutes in a preseason game and was out for the whole year from an innocuous marking contest.

Darling is 30 right now, Sheed is 28 in April, Yeo hasn't played for 2 seasons. You'll be lucky if these guys are around when you are contending again. The old brigade won't be around and there is a huge gap between them and the new recruits. I think you waited too long to refresh and should have passed on the Kelly trade when it didn't happen 2018 or paid overs the year before.

Bottoming out will probably fast track the rebuild but you are going to have to find some A graders. Currently I don't see any on the list as the old players won't return to A level again.

 

[Obeanie1]

Chesser hasn't played a game yet, not sure why he gets so much attention as a future star when he lasted 5 minutes in a preseason game and was out for the whole year from an innocuous marking contest.

Darling is 30 right now, Sheed is 28 in April, Yeo hasn't played for 2 seasons. You'll be lucky if these guys are around when you are contending again. The old brigade won't be around and there is a huge gap between them and the new recruits. I think you waited too long to refresh and should have passed on the Kelly trade when it didn't happen 2018 or paid overs the year before.

Bottoming out will probably fast track the rebuild but you are going to have to find some A graders. Currently I don't see any on the list as the old players won't return to A level again.

Sure it will take a couple of more drafts to replenish the youth. That's why they didn't cull harder plus not easy or smart cutting senior contracted players.

Not surprised as a Freo supporter you don't see any A graders on the Eagles list. Purple stained glasses can do that.

I look forward to this years Derbies. Hopefully we have a decent list of fit players available.

Only time will tell how many A graders are there ATM. At least they have quality experienced Premiership players to show them the way.

 

[peetoo]

We won this poll last year. Don’t let us down Bigfooty.

Collingwood second

 

[Selfield]

North Melbourne should finish last again. Easily the worst team since Sydney in the early 90s that collected 3 wooden spoons on the trot.

 

[Obeanie1]

North Melbourne should finish last again. Easily the worst team since Sydney in the early 90s that collected 3 wooden spoons on the trot.

IMO North will start to improve this season.

It's amazing what a good coach can get out of teams who have been down a while.

Nice to read Cunnington is back to full training, so far so good after his 2nd bout with testicular cancer. He's a darn good mid for Wardlaw to learn from.

 

[peetoo]

I love this thread, if not just for the amount of Geelong fans who’ve no doubt voted for Hawthorn, but for the sheer volume of votes Hawthorn are getting. We’re winning this poll in a canter.

Meanwhile…

View attachment 1573320

Odds are kind to Adelaide btw.

 

[peetoo]

Didnt you project 3 years of low finishes for the Hawks. That is what you are being challenged on.

Now you are saying you may change your opinion next year. And the year after you may have a different one again.

Rebuilds do take time but some clubs do it better than others. Just look at Collingwood v North or Saint Kilda. Eagles turn things around faster than many others as well.

Hawks and Eagles will hit the draft hard this year and next, look at FA's that don't cost picks. Then look at using top picks on trades.

And over that period they will slowly climb back into contention. Not 2023 sure that would be incredible. But 2024 and 2025 I can see them getting closer to the top 8 again.

Over a periods longer than one or two seasons, back the proven well run clubs like Hawthorn or West coast to rebound faster than certain others.
Hawks 05-08 and eagles 01-06 or even Richmond 10-13 as the best rebounds

 

[bh90210fan]

Sure it will take a couple of more drafts to replenish the youth. That's why they didn't cull harder plus not easy or smart cutting senior contracted players.

Not surprised as a Freo supporter you don't see any A graders on the Eagles list. Purple stained glasses can do that.

I look forward to this years Derbies. Hopefully we have a decent list of fit players available.

Only time will tell how many A graders are there ATM. At least they have quality experienced Premiership players to show them the way.

 

[Purple Suit]

Over a periods longer than one or two seasons, back the proven well run clubs like Hawthorn or West coast to rebound faster than certain others.
Hawks 05-08 and eagles 01-06 or even Richmond 10-13 as the best rebounds

Times have changed with no tangible pp's, players with more power to not go near long term rebuilding clubs, tighter off field deals and 18 clubs. A quick turnaround seems to have only occured at Sydney with Geelong somehow extending their run forever.

Richmond took 30 years to rebound in the 80's.

Hawks have been down for 5/6 seasons. 4 in a row and looking worse. That isn't quick by any stretch.

West Coast topped up too hard with Kelly while stuffing the draft for 5 years prior. They will be out for awhile.

Sure it will take a couple of more drafts to replenish the youth. That's why they didn't cull harder plus not easy or smart cutting senior contracted players.

Not surprised as a Freo supporter you don't see any A graders on the Eagles list. Purple stained glasses can do that.

I look forward to this years Derbies. Hopefully we have a decent list of fit players available.

Only time will tell how many A graders are there ATM. At least they have quality experienced Premiership players to show them the way.

Maybe a bit harsh, Barass was potentially an A grader from last year but it was his first season being one. Being under siege the whole season helped his stats. He's 27 so will be past 30 when you contend again.

 

[Makeshift Park]

North Melbourne should finish last again. Easily the worst team since Sydney in the early 90s that collected 3 wooden spoons on the trot.

We have been truly abysmal for the past couple seasons, but there’s at least a dozen promising developments since round 23 that signal we won't be uncompetitive again.

 

[Jeremias]

You have made a final call on an unfinished list

Laughable

What is a 'finished' list?

The reactions from some Hawthorn supporters to their club being mentioned is bizarre. Well and truly in the conversation for last place in 2023.

 

[greatgatsby]

Times have changed with no tangible pp's, players with more power to not go near long term rebuilding clubs, tighter off field deals and 18 clubs. A quick turnaround seems to have only occured at Sydney with Geelong somehow extending their run forever.

Richmond took 30 years to rebound in the 80's.

Hawks have been down for 5/6 seasons. 4 in a row and looking worse. That isn't quick by any stretch.

West Coast topped up too hard with Kelly while stuffing the draft for 5 years prior. They will be out for awhile.


Maybe a bit harsh, Barass was potentially an A grader from last year but it was his first season being one. Being under siege the whole season helped his stats. He's 27 so will be past 30 when you contend again.

Don't worry about it. Their list is full of "premiership players" who were unlucky with injury and vaccine trepidation last year. A bit of "youth replenishment" and they'll be right back where they belong.

 

[Yoda_]

for the record, the times that teams actively sought out a way to fast track there kids did not bode well for them or their clubs future endeavours in the short - medium term list builds.

Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond infamously all "tanked" to gain draft picks etc. and all three were s**t for a decade after that, Sam Mitchell would want to be a super coach if he is indeed dictating he did not want Shield, Gunston, McEvoy, O'Meara, Mitchell.

 

[peetoo]

for the record, the times that teams actively sought out a way to fast track there kids did not bode well for them or their clubs future endeavours in the short - medium term list builds.

Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond infamously all "tanked" to gain draft picks etc. and all three were s**t for a decade after that, Sam Mitchell would want to be a super coach if he is indeed dictating he did not want Shield, Gunston, McEvoy, O'Meara, Mitchell.

The question is are they tanking not why are they tanking and how wise is that,

In my book taking 10 recruits, 4 of which are older is not tanking.

Hawks have mixed mature with draftee intake since 2010. The balance went too far towards mature around 2019 but have eased the other way now

 

[hawkman]

for the record, the times that teams actively sought out a way to fast track there kids did not bode well for them or their clubs future endeavours in the short - medium term list builds.

Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond infamously all "tanked" to gain draft picks etc. and all three were s**t for a decade after that, Sam Mitchell would want to be a super coach if he is indeed dictating he did not want Shield, Gunston, McEvoy, O'Meara, Mitchell.

He didn’t want Shiels, Mitchell and O'Meara. He probably would have preferred to keep Gunston. McEvoy retired so no real option to keep him

 

[Obeanie1]

Don't worry about it. Their list is full of "premiership players" who were unlucky with injury and vaccine trepidation last year. A bit of "youth replenishment" and they'll be right back where they belong.

Lol. Give us a couple of years and we will wave as we pass your mob.......again.

More than happy to enjoy 2023 watching the development of the likes of L Edwards, Culley, Chesser, Hough, Trew, Winder, Ginbey, Hewett, Barnett, Burgeil, Long, Jamison, Williams x 2 and Bazzo to build the pressure on the established older guys. 15 young guys with their best 10+ AFL years ahead of them.

Then there is the mature agers in Clark and West who worked hard back from injury to debut and are just starting to lift to AFL levels of fitness. Can one of these 25 year olds grab an opportunity?

Oscar Allen was our next big thing before a foot fracture kept him out all year along with Cole and ankle surgery and Sheed with grion issues.

Barrass McGovern Naitanui Allen and Darling is a spine to work around.

Duggan, Ryan and Cole (26) are solid players when fit. Ryan a match winner.

The likes of Waterman, Petrucelle, Rotham and Foley all 24/25 potentially playing for their careers as is SPS.

And the old crew move out the way and support the younger guys to get exposure and experience. Shuey, Hurn, Gaff and Yeo play flanks. Hunt comes in to help implement faster ball movement and help set standards.

New faster game plan, nothing to lose. No expectations. Everyone writing them off.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He didn’t want Shiels, Mitchell and O'Meara. He probably would have preferred to keep Gunston. McEvoy retired so no real option to keep him

The amusing part is that if we’d have kept Shiels and McEvoy they’d have been one of the first players named in the “players that have gone one year too long” thread if they weren’t already named in it in 2022, now people think we should’ve kept them despite having multiple players that would’ve taken their games in 2023 and beyond.

 

[Power Raid]

Has to be a side with a coach not fearful of tanking

I would suggest both north's coach and the hawks coach are comfortable with their job security and may play the long game by tanking

 

[Farang83150]

Don't worry about it. Their list is full of "premiership players" who were unlucky with injury and vaccine trepidation last year. A bit of "youth replenishment" and they'll be right back where they belong.

premiership....

 

[peetoo]

The amusing part is that if we’d have kept Shiels and McEvoy they’d have been one of the first players named in the “players that have gone one year too long” thread if they weren’t already named in it in 2022, now people think we should’ve kept them despite having multiple players that would’ve taken their games in 2023 and beyond.

Bigfooty was not complimentary of the Hawks in 2005 2006 either