Preview Round 20 - Essendon Bombers vs Sydney Swans - Saturday, July 29th - 7:25 pm - Disney is Still Milking the s**t out of it Stadium

[Beerfish]

ESSENDON v SYDNEY SWANS

Saturday July 29, 7:25pm at Marvel Stadium

BOMBERS

B: A. McGrath, B. Zerk-Thatcher, J. Kelly
HB: M. Redman, J. Laverde, D. Heppell
C: S. Durham, A. Perkins, N. Martin
HF: J. Caldwell, P. Wright, N. Cox
F: M. Guelfi, K. Langford, B. Hobbs
FOLL: A. Phillips, D. Parish, Z. Merrett - C

I/C: W. Snelling, N. Hind, N. Bryan, J. Menzie
EMG: E. Tsatas, K. Baldwin, A. Davey Jnr, A. McDonald-Tipungwuti

In: J. Menzie
OUT: J. Ridley (Injured), J. Stringer (Injured)

 

[Keystone agony]

My biggest fear with Scott was that he would fall into the same habit that he would favour the older players and refuse to blood enough younger players. He said he learnt his lessons and hasn't done alot wrong so far.

If he honestly picks Weideman for defence after one week, when Baldwin has been slaughtering opposition forwardlines all season as a CHB, I might just lose hope.

We are one of the 4th youngest sides in the comp this year?

How much younger do you want Scott to make us?

Lose this week then we can break the record for youngest side ever

 

[cAsEy_18]

We are one of the 4th youngest sides in the comp this year?

How much younger do you want Scott to make us?

Lose this week then we can break the record for youngest side ever

It's an interesting one.

We are picking one of the younger sides - and yet, Scott really is playing (with the exception of Tippa) every senior guy he possibly can at every opportunity. It is more just a case of the list being significantly younger than most other lists, where we underratedly have really struggled to have anyone play competitive footy over the age of about 30-31 for a long time on our list.

 

[andleanback]

My biggest fear with Scott was that he would fall into the same habit that he would favour the older players and refuse to blood enough younger players. He said he learnt his lessons and hasn't done alot wrong so far.

If he honestly picks Weideman for defence after one week, when Baldwin has been slaughtering opposition forwardlines all season as a CHB, I might just lose hope.

He said a few things about picking young guys before they’re ready in his presser. I like a lot of what Scotty says, but sometimes they just really need to be given a chance. I’ll be furious ( along with many) if weid comes in straight away to replace ridley.

Also said tsatas getting very close they’ve asked him to work on a few things in the past 2 weeks and he’s improved them, “a very coachable player” I like the sound of that.

 

[Keystone agony]

It's an interesting one.

We are picking one of the younger sides - and yet, Scott really is playing (with the exception of Tippa) every senior guy he possibly can at every opportunity. It is more just a case of the list being significantly younger than most other lists, where we underratedly have really struggled to have anyone play competitive footy over the age of about 30-31 for a long time on our list.

Hind, Tippa, Shiel, Stterfield and now Weideman

Weve dropped Kelly, Tippa, Snelling, Heppell, Weid and Shiel throughout this year

Also why would you pick 18 yr old kids when your in finals contention let alone sitting 5th on the ladder?

 

[cAsEy_18]

Hind, Tippa, Shiel, Stterfield and now Weideman

Weve dropped Kelly, Tippa, Snelling, Heppell, Weid and Shiel throughout this year

Also why would you pick 18 yr old kids when your in finals contention let alone sitting 5th on the ladder?

Not saying I would, just providing context.

Hind, Tippa and Weideman have been dropped, yes (Albeit Weideman given every chance under the sun first)
Kelly and Snelling have never been dropped - both returned through VFL after injury/concussion for a couple games.
Heppell was relegated to sub one game, and subbed off one game but never dropped.

It's more the mentality that whenever a close call has been made, the experienced guy has been favoured.

Eg: Heppell/Kelly vs D'Ambrosio
Weideman vs Voss (I don't agree with this one, I'm in the camp that they're different roles)
Phillips vs Bryan
Menzie currently vs Snelling/Guelfi

Even just Shiel coming straight back in as sub clearly underdone, in comparison to say a Hobbs who really had to bide his time at the start of the year.


Again, not saying I actually disagree with any/all of these decisions. Just that there certainly is a trend and evidence to suggest Scott will give his experienced guys every opportunity as a priority.

 

[TheGrizz]

We are one of the 4th youngest sides in the comp this year?

How much younger do you want Scott to make us?

Lose this week then we can break the record for youngest side ever

It's not about being arbitrarily younger. What is your obsession with not being the youngest player in the team?
Who cares?

Baldwin has been our best player in the VFL basically all season, playing at CHB.
Weid comes in and plays CHB for one week and gets the call up?

Baldwin, on merit, deserves the spot in defence vacated by Ridley. The ONLY reason you would pick Weideman over Baldwin is because of age (I.e he is older), cause it sure as hell ain't down to form.

That's the issue, ignoring young players who deserve a chance on merit for less deserving older players (on merit).

 

[TheGrizz]

Hind, Tippa, Shiel, Stterfield and now Weideman

Weve dropped Kelly, Tippa, Snelling, Heppell, Weid and Shiel throughout this year

Also why would you pick 18 yr old kids when your in finals contention let alone sitting 5th on the ladder?

We are actually sitting 12th, and have little to no chance of doing anything significant in the finals based on form.

Let's be realistic, at least.

 

[faible]

Perhaps lets not all melt about something that hasn't actually happened yet...

 

[Keystone agony]

It's not about being arbitrarily younger. What is your obsession with not being the youngest player in the team?
Who cares?

Baldwin has been our best player in the VFL basically all season, playing at CHB.
Weid comes in and plays CHB for one week and gets the call up?

Baldwin, on merit, deserves the spot in defence vacated by Ridley. The ONLY reason you would pick Weideman over Baldwin is because of age (I.e he is older), cause it sure as hell ain't down to form.

That's the issue, ignoring young players who deserve a chance on merit for less deserving older players (on merit).

What is your obsession and this entire boards obsession with wanting to be young but not good?

 

[faible]

It's more the mentality that whenever a close call has been made, the experienced guy has been favoured.

We're a young, inexperienced side. So where the call is line-ball, experience matters.

If we had a side like Geelong with experience out the eyeballs, the decision might be flipped.

Having a dearth of experienced players that are also high quality and fit is problematic.

 

[Keystone agony]

We are actually sitting 12th, and have little to no chance of doing anything significant in the finals based on form.

Let's be realistic, at least.

We are now, but a few weeks ago we were 5th and 6th

And as i said were still well and truly in finals contention. Lose this week and it changes

 

[HirdsTheWord]

We've genuinely done this...once? (Shiel)

Even the Stringer, Saad, Smith year, with how it's all played out - all those were good deals.

Stringer for 25 and 30.
Saad for...some sort of 2nd rounder.
Dev traded included our 1st rounder, but from memory we got a high 2nd rounder back, which might've even been used in 1 of the above 2 trades. It wasn't much we ended up giving up.
And they were all in a good age bracket.

Completely get what you're saying. But I think there's this huge middle ground between "Topping up in trades to go all in" and "Hit the draft". There is smart recruiting, through all methods of trading, free agency and drafting, regardless of whether we finish 7th or 12th this year.

We never even saw the benefit of the plan to get Stringer.

We got stringer to play in the same fwdline as Fantasia and Daniher and i reckon those 3 played a combined 5 games together over 2-3 years with all the injuries.

Plan never eventuated.

 

[TheGrizz]

What is your obsession and this entire boards obsessionnwith wanting to be young but not good?

It's not about being young.

There is no logical way you can argue Weideman deserves to play KPD at AFL this week over Baldwin based on form. Baldwin has been playing there all year and has been our best player in the VFL whilst playing it.

The only reason you would pick Weideman over him is because you are favoring experience and age over form. Generally if you want to win, form is the better thing to go with.

 

[Keystone agony]

Not saying I would, just providing context.

Hind, Tippa and Weideman have been dropped, yes (Albeit Weideman given every chance under the sun first)
Kelly and Snelling have never been dropped - both returned through VFL after injury/concussion for a couple games.
Heppell was relegated to sub one game, and subbed off one game but never dropped.

It's more the mentality that whenever a close call has been made, the experienced guy has been favoured.

Eg: Heppell/Kelly vs D'Ambrosio
Weideman vs Voss (I don't agree with this one, I'm in the camp that they're different roles)
Phillips vs Bryan
Menzie currently vs Snelling/Guelfi

Even just Shiel coming straight back in as sub clearly underdone, in comparison to say a Hobbs who really had to bide his time at the start of the year.


Again, not saying I actually disagree with any/all of these decisions. Just that there certainly is a trend and evidence to suggest Scott will give his experienced guys every opportunity as a priority.

Starting sub is as good as dropped after being in the 22

He will when were sitting 5th/6th and in a position to host a home final. Any coach would

 

[Keystone agony]

It's not about being young.

There is no logical way you can argue Weideman deserves to play KPD at AFL this week over Baldwin based on form. Baldwin has been playing there all year and has been our best player in the VFL whilst playing it.

The only reason you would pick Weideman over him is because you are favoring experience and age over form. Generally if you want to win, form is the better thing to go with.

Ive not once said anything about the Weideman vs Baldwin debate

It can be rare that a player who played at the completely opposite end of the ground the week prior is picked up a level to play the other end of the ground the next week

Im probably picking neither. I want Cox as the 3rd tall down back

Id more likely pick Baldwin fwd probably

 

[ghostdog]

We should be okay with Sydney’s middle. They’re one of the worst contested ball/ contest teams in the comp. also got smacked by the dogs even though they lost by 2 points.

I don't trust that our mids will all turn up though.
Merrett I trust.
Parish picks and chooses.
Stringer is injured, underperforming and being preserved in the forwardline.
Shiel is injured.
Hobbs is young and might still be a little inconsistent, as we saw last week.
Perkins fumbles his possessions and goes missing.
Caldwell is someone who absolutely could go next level - plays a desperate defence and offence and can play inside and out and pinch forward - but like last week, still young and can go missing.
Martin and Durham need to run and receive and distribute on the outside all day.
The only one I trust from that list right now, to will themselves to compete and drag us into the game, is Merrett. Hobbs and Caldwell I think will have that capacity in time, but not yet.

No doubt Sydney have underperformed this year, but I'm wary that they have players who rise to the occasion if demanded. Parker and Warner obviously, but I'd add Gulden, Blakey and Heeney as those types as well.

Edit: ...and Papley. There are probably others who I'm not thinking of.

 

[ghostdog]

Don’t think we can carry Heppell without Ridley back there and I think Hind’s papers have been stamped.

My changes are:

In: Baldwin, Menzie, D’Ambrosio
Out: Ridley, Stringer, Heppell

I agree re: Heppell, but we'll play him anyway.

 

[ghostdog]

We are one of the 4th youngest sides in the comp this year?

How much younger do you want Scott to make us?

Lose this week then we can break the record for youngest side ever

I don't think young v. old is necessarily the point here; it's that Baldwin deserves where Weideman does not. If Weideman is selected then the lesson hasn't necessarily been learned; that form should trump experience.

 

[Ambrosia]

I don't think young v. old is necessarily the point here; it's that Baldwin deserves where Weideman does not. If Weideman is selected then the lesson hasn't necessarily been learned; that form should trump experience.

I doubt Weideman wants to be thrown into the senior backline just yet anyway

 

[ghostdog]

I doubt Weideman wants to be thrown into the senior backline just yet anyway

If he's comfortable playing in the 2s, that's fine... for now.

 

[ant555]

It's not about being arbitrarily younger. What is your obsession with not being the youngest player in the team?
Who cares?

Baldwin has been our best player in the VFL basically all season, playing at CHB.
Weid comes in and plays CHB for one week and gets the call up?

Baldwin, on merit, deserves the spot in defence vacated by Ridley. The ONLY reason you would pick Weideman over Baldwin is because of age (I.e he is older), cause it sure as hell ain't down to form.

That's the issue, ignoring young players who deserve a chance on merit for less deserving older players (on merit).

I agree . Weideman can have a few 25 possessions in the VFL while they get another look at Baldwin. The only thing that puts some doubt in my mind is they shifted Baldwin forward again last week.

 

[Keystone agony]

I don't think young v. old is necessarily the point here; it's that Baldwin deserves where Weideman does not. If Weideman is selected then the lesson hasn't necessarily been learned; that form should trump experience.

My comment has nothing to do about Baldwin or Weideman

Its around people stating that hes doing what he did at north play experience at all cost. I think its a poor judgment in the first place. North were in the finals race from memory for most of his time.

So have we been. Weve been 5th and 6th on the ladder. Why would you drop Heppell, Snelling, Phillips, Stringer when they are the ones involved in getting us into that position?

Also weve played plenty of senior guys in the 2s or as sub. J.Kelly, Hind, Heppell, Tippa, Shiel, Snelling ect all this year and now Weideman

Finals is still a possibility. A loss this week would change that. We also have some hardened bodies injured atm (Shiel, Setters, Draper, Ridley ect)

Im not sure exactly what people have wanted 2 weeks ago? To play Davey instead of Snelling? Cox instead of Heppell, Voss instead of Stringer or Weideman? Whilst sitting in a position of a home final?

As for Baldwin on a seperate note, we clearly have a recent plan of him as a forward, which i was asking for, for weeks. He shouldve been able to replace Weideman last week as a KPF

Its not like hes playing zero youth, thats folly. Were one of the youngest sides all year. I hate to think how young we were vs the dogs

 

[ghostdog]

My comment has nothing to do about Baldwin or Weideman

Its around people stating that hes doing what he did at north play experience at all cost. I think its a poor judgment in the first place. North were in the finals race from memory for most of his time.

So have we been. Weve been 5th and 6th on the ladder. Why would you drop Heppell, Snelling, Phillips, Stringer when they are the ones involved in getting us into that position?

Also weve played plenty of senior guys in the 2s or as sub. J.Kelly, Hind, Heppell, Tippa, Shiel, Snelling ect all this year and now Weideman

Finals is still a possibility. A loss this week would change that. We also have some hardened bodies injured atm (Shiel, Setters, Draper, Ridley ect)

Im not sure exactly what people have wanted 2 weeks ago? To play Davey instead of Snelling? Cox instead of Heppell, Voss instead of Stringer or Weideman? Whilst sitting in a position of a home final?

As for Baldwin on a seperate note, we clearly have a recent plan of him as a forward, which i was asking for, for weeks. He shouldve been able to replace Weideman last week as a KPF

Its not like hes playing zero youth, thats folly. Were one of the youngest sides all year. I hate to think how young we were vs the dogs

Oh I know your comment had nothing to do with that. The comment you responded to was what I was referring to.

 

[Vindicater]

Out: Ridley (inj) Stringer (inj) Bryan

In: Baldwin, Menzie and Tsatas.

Hind into the main squad and Perkins to sub.

 

[Beerfish]

My biggest fear with Scott was that he would fall into the same habit that he would favour the older players and refuse to blood enough younger players. He said he learnt his lessons and hasn't done alot wrong so far.

If he honestly picks Weideman for defence after one week, when Baldwin has been slaughtering opposition forwardlines all season as a CHB, I might just lose hope.

But then we'll win one and it'll come back!