List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[Premium]

M.King was a steal at pick 4 , give him time and he will prove his worth.
The best thing we never grab Polac , he would be just pinching midfield time from Gresham and Acres - don't worry if we were able to get a Coniglio or a Kelly grab them no problems.

We now have a very young side improving all the time and the more wins we get you will start to see the media calling guys stars and A graders.
Billings , Gresham , Acres are game changes.
Acres feeding the ball out to Long twice on the weekend caused 2 goals and also the one he sent to Steele who sent it to Billings for a goal.
He just cuts open teams.
He just brilliant and he is only just starting.

Then Steele restricts the so called champion he is playing on and hurts them back.

People still don't realize how good this team is.

Steele , Billings , Gresham , Acres , Steven , Ross are all class players.

 

[CaptainRisky]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...g/news-story/76f6b903b4c1d8212022ba80e0662ad2

Thats an interesting read

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I wasnt whinging about drafting him, I was just pointing out how averse we are to taking midfilelders with our high draft picks.

Whether they rated him highly or not you cant suggest they werent thinking that they needed cover for Paddy.

I suggest that you have a look at the drafts around the ones that you mentioned and consider what midfielders we took.

When Ben was drafted (in hindsight a massive blunder, more costly that Paddy or any other draft misses that we've had other that Ball over Judd), we had a midfield chockers with AA's. We also had a couple of old ruck men on their last legs (King & Gardy).

In Paddy's case we'd taken 3 mids (Billings, Dunstan and Acres) the previous year. The following year we took Gresham. That doesn't really fit in with the 'adverse to draft mids' thinking though does it?

Last year we drafted the absolute best available... the year before we drafted one pure mid (Clark) and one who's a genuine mid/utility (Coffield). He played as a mid all through his junior career up until the U18s.

So that's Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark & Coffield drafted in the top 20 alongside of Paddy & Max... a 3 to 1 ratio of mids to talls.

 

[Diehard Saint]

People still don't realize how good this team is.

Steele , Billings , Gresham , Acres , Steven , Ross are all class players.

Add a little Clark, Coff and Winx to the mix and wow!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Come end of the year i don't see that we have too many players on our list that aren't AFL standard to make way for the next draft.
Armitage and Rowe at this stage. Possibly Rice.
I'm thinking it would make sense for us to trade a decent young player for an improved draft pick. IE player and pick for a better pick.
Someone like Phillips or McKenzie perhaps.

 

[bird_man]

Josh Kelly's value has probably dropped since he was last out of contract. He's struggled with injury and hasn't really got his form up to where it was in 2017 when he was an All Australian.

I'd love to know what he's being offered from the Giants, surely whatever it is we'd be able to well and truly trump.

 

[BeastKing]

For all the hype. Aaron Naughton is averaging a bit over a goal a game and getting 10 touches for the season (about what McCartin was averaging in his second season). Yup, SUPERSTAR!

And where are all the haters now? Ben Paton taken at pick 46 in the 2017 draft and looks like a BEAUTY. Fast, hard and a very good kick.

Also Marshall. Pick 10 in the 2016 rookie draft and just keeps getting better and better. He looks like he can develop into the Grundy/Gawn type of mobile ruckman.

You win some and you lose some. But i think since 2013 the only real misses have been due to injury (McCartin - Concussion and Goddard - Achilles). The rest are arguable eg. Matt Crouch (he's better than dunstan to be sure, but is he really an upgrade on Ross?).

Getting Sinclair, Steele, Membrey, Wilkie, Bruce, Kent, Brown, Marshall and even players like Battle and Parker for not much (either via trading or low in the draft) has been a great outcome. WE HAVE THE DEPTH AND THE TALENT.

And our two top 10 draft picks aren't even playing. And we are missing Carlisle, Hannebery and King, plus no Roberton and Bytel is recovering.

There is no reason why we shouldn't get better and better over the next few years. Brown and Geary are 30 but we have players who will cover their loss. Really, with the talent coming through we are set up for the next 10 years. If we keep topping up, there is no reason why we can't be a consistent finals team and be pushing top 4 year in year out.

 

[bird_man]

Come end of the year i don't see that we have too many players on our list that aren't AFL standard to make way for the next draft.
Armitage and Rowe at this stage. Possibly Rice.
I'm thinking it would make sense for us to trade a decent young player for an improved draft pick. IE player and pick for a better pick.
Someone like Phillips or McKenzie perhaps.

I'm not sure about trading players just for the sake of it. Mckenzie is best 22 for us and probably wouldn't land us a lot. Phillips would get us a 4th rounder at best.

We've been going hard at the draft for quite a while and currently have a first round pick this year. We have also shown that you can get some real quality later in the draft and even the rookie draft.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I suggest that you have a look at the drafts around the ones that you mentioned and consider what midfielders we took.

When Ben was drafted (in hindsight a massive blunder, more costly that Paddy or any other draft misses that we've had other that Ball over Judd), we had a midfield chockers with AA's. We also had a couple of old ruck men on their last legs (King & Gardy).

In Paddy's case we'd taken 3 mids (Billings, Dunstan and Acres) the previous year. The following year we took Gresham. That doesn't really fit in with the 'adverse to draft mids' thinking though does it?

Last year we drafted the absolute best available... the year before we drafted one pure mid (Clark) and one who's a genuine mid/utility (Coffield). He played as a mid all through his junior career up until the U18s.

So that's Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark & Coffield drafted in the top 20 alongside of Paddy & Max... a 3 to 1 ratio of mids to talls.

Selecting high 1st round picks as pure elite mids is the discussion.

Dunstan wont make it and will be delisted at years end when his contract expires.

Billings was a HFF and is only now playing on a wing.

Gresham was played as FP for 4 years and has only this year been used consistently in the middle.

Acres was a speculative pick at best and is still not a pure midfielder.

 

[Joffaboy]

I saw a team of pure mids on the weekend Got beaten by 40 points.

But I do agree, would have preferred a mid or two more from high picks.

Hopefully Gres, Billings, Clark and Coff come on and we can FA a quality mid to go with a fully fit Hanners.

 

[bird_man]

The only pick that annoyed me at the time was the McCartin one. All the rest were what we thought were best available.

That's exactly how you should draft in the first round. The only time we didn't was the Paddy one and it back fired.

Picking for needs is what you do with later picks.

I think the way it ended up was that we got a decent mix anyway. Max and Paddy were drafted as key forwards.

Clark and Gresham were taken as mids (Yes I know Gresham played the majority of his first three years at AFL level as a forward but he's not the first to do that)

Coff and Billings were taken as flankers who we'd hope would spend some time as mids.

Then you have Dunstan and Acres who were both late firsts. Dunstan was a pure mid, Acres a mid/flanker

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Selecting high 1st round picks as pure elite mids is the discussion.

Dunstan wont make it and will be delisted at years end when his contract expires.

Billings was a HFF and is only now playing on a wing.

Gresham was played as FP for 4 years and has only this year been used consistently in the middle.

Acres was a speculative pick at best and is still not a pure midfielder.

So the fact that they are now all mids, played as mids as juniors but were developed in other positions makes my point moot? Dunstan was a top 20 pick and was considered in the top handful of inside midfielders in that draft.

I spoke with Ameet in mid 2014 & he point blank told me that they saw JB developing into a elite midfielder. It's arguable that he's been played out of position over the past 12-18 months and we're now seeing the upside with him playing where he's best suited.

Acres is a midfielder and plays his best footy floating around the ground following the ball... maybe your definition of a pure mid is only someone who can play in the centre square.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The only pick that annoyed me at the time was the McCartin one. All the rest were what we thought were best available.

That's exactly how you should draft in the first round. The only time we didn't was the Paddy one and it back fired.

Picking for needs is what you do with later picks.

I think the way it ended up was that we got a decent mix anyway. Max and Paddy were drafted as key forwards.

Clark and Gresham were taken as mids (Yes I know Gresham played the majority of his first three years at AFL level as a forward but he's not the first to do that)

Coff and Billings were taken as flankers who we'd hope would spend some time as mids.

Then you have Dunstan and Acres who were both late firsts. Dunstan was a pure mid, Acres a mid/flanker

Billings was definitely projected to be a midfielder.

I reckon people hold too much weight in what position a kid plays their U18 Champs in... most of the elite kids have spent most of their footy life dominating midfields. When they get to rep footy they sometimes get pushed onto flanks or used at half back because their kicking skills and decision making are so good.

Where they develop once into the AFL system is another part of it. Depending on what senior players are ahead of them, their fitness, injury history, etc.

I'll disagree to the cows come home about Paddy not being the right pick in 2014. If he was rated at #5 or #10 then you'd have a point but he wasn't. He was going at either one or two... Petracca's career isn't tracking to the point that he's a massive miss either. The rest of the top 5 are not worth considering because they were never in the mix. And to be clear, at least 2 other clubs also had Paddy at #1. That comes directly from the mouth of a current head AFL recruiter.

 

[saint_]

The best Billings is when he out of contract. Seems to ramp us his intensity when he is in the final year of his contract. Like he did in 2017.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The best Billings is when he out of contract. Seems to ramp us his intensity when he is in the final year of his contract. Like he did in 2017.

1 year deals from here on?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I just listened to the podcast with Darren O’Shaughnessy that’s doing the rounds.

A fascinating discussion that’s so far over my head that it’s not funny. It did get me thinking about DOS (very appropriate nickname for data nerd) & his influence on last year’s drafting, specifically Bytel.

You’d think that he would have crunched the numbers to find the exact probability of young Jack fully recovering from his back injury (data from athletes suffering the same injury, etc). Compare that with Bytel’s stats as a underage player & the correlation with how that translates into AFL performance.

His influence is going to one that we may not find obvious to see but may be a significant effect both in recruiting & in game day tactics.

If you haven’t listened to it yet, it’s well worth the time;

https://player.whooshkaa.com/chilling-with-charlie?episode=362423




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[luca77]

1 year deals from here on?

Such is life, hey?
The best sex is makeup sex. Since my wife and I never argue, I probably should work hard to bridge the gap between my best and my worst. Easier said than done though, right JB?

There was a cricketer that people used to say that about, always scoring runs before contract renewal...was it Mark Waugh?

 

[VDS66]

I just listened to the podcast with Darren O’Shaughnessy that’s doing the rounds.

A fascinating discussion that’s so far over my head that it’s not funny. It did get me thinking about DOS (very appropriate nickname for data nerd) & his influence on last year’s drafting, specifically Bytel.

You’d think that he would have crunched the numbers to find the exact probability of young Jack fully recovering from his back injury (data from athletes suffering the same injury, etc). Compare that with Bytel’s stats as a underage player & the correlation with how that translates into AFL performance.

His influence is going to one that we may not find obvious to see but may be a significant effect both in recruiting & in game day tactics.

If you haven’t listened to it yet, it’s well worth the time;

https://player.whooshkaa.com/chilling-with-charlie?episode=362423




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All I understood was that short kick outs from behinds are more effective that long ones, even with the new rules.

 

[Roadto2018]

So it sounds like a frank and honest exit interview rather than a hyperbolic “massive blue”.

That's exactly how I heard it, no hyperbole was added.

 

[gringo2011]

I suggest that you have a look at the drafts around the ones that you mentioned and consider what midfielders we took.

When Ben was drafted (in hindsight a massive blunder, more costly that Paddy or any other draft misses that we've had other that Ball over Judd), we had a midfield chockers with AA's. We also had a couple of old ruck men on their last legs (King & Gardy).

In Paddy's case we'd taken 3 mids (Billings, Dunstan and Acres) the previous year. The following year we took Gresham. That doesn't really fit in with the 'adverse to draft mids' thinking though does it?

Last year we drafted the absolute best available... the year before we drafted one pure mid (Clark) and one who's a genuine mid/utility (Coffield). He played as a mid all through his junior career up until the U18s.

So that's Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark & Coffield drafted in the top 20 alongside of Paddy & Max... a 3 to 1 ratio of mids to talls.

Dunstan was the only true mid, Blake was a utility and Billings was a half forward who some were worried would never transition to a mid. Clarke and Coffield again both had stints at half back and at least Hunter had some serious exposed midfield time, Coffield was back forward and middle.

 

[StCicatriz]

I suggest that you have a look at the drafts around the ones that you mentioned and consider what midfielders we took.

When Ben was drafted (in hindsight a massive blunder, more costly that Paddy or any other draft misses that we've had other that Ball over Judd), we had a midfield chockers with AA's. We also had a couple of old ruck men on their last legs (King & Gardy).

In Paddy's case we'd taken 3 mids (Billings, Dunstan and Acres) the previous year. The following year we took Gresham. That doesn't really fit in with the 'adverse to draft mids' thinking though does it?

Last year we drafted the absolute best available... the year before we drafted one pure mid (Clark) and one who's a genuine mid/utility (Coffield). He played as a mid all through his junior career up until the U18s.

So that's Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark & Coffield drafted in the top 20 alongside of Paddy & Max... a 3 to 1 ratio of mids to talls.

i think you are being a bit sneaky here.

acres was a utility, played center at colts level but HBF in the champs. since joining us he's been played mainly as a third tall forward, who can push up around the ground. billings was a HFF at tac cup level and the champs. he has been able to cement a spot on the wing now and looks every bit of an outside mid. dunstan was played in the center as a colt. mix of center and half back flank in the champs. center since joining. gresham was a fwd pocket predominantly.

so really we drafted 1 genuine mid, who hasn't really made it, but found another in billings. with gresham looking likely.

prior to that the other genuine mid was seb ross, who has cemented his spot there.

so we seem to be grabbing blokes in other positions and transferring them into what we think they can be, which is what you should be doing at the draft. i mean not every play can play as a mid. there's only 5 spots in the side for it, maybe some interchange, so naturally in a very gifted side you will have blokes playing other positions.

 

[StCicatriz]

Billings was definitely projected to be a midfielder.

I reckon people hold too much weight in what position a kid plays their U18 Champs in... most of the elite kids have spent most of their footy life dominating midfields. When they get to rep footy they sometimes get pushed onto flanks or used at half back because their kicking skills and decision making are so good.

Where they develop once into the AFL system is another part of it. Depending on what senior players are ahead of them, their fitness, injury history, etc.

I'll disagree to the cows come home about Paddy not being the right pick in 2014. If he was rated at #5 or #10 then you'd have a point but he wasn't. He was going at either one or two... Petracca's career isn't tracking to the point that he's a massive miss either. The rest of the top 5 are not worth considering because they were never in the mix. And to be clear, at least 2 other clubs also had Paddy at #1. That comes directly from the mouth of a current head AFL recruiter.

i know of some clubs that didn't have him inside the top 10 for the reasons everyone has noted on here

 

[StCicatriz]

The only pick that annoyed me at the time was the McCartin one. All the rest were what we thought were best available.

That's exactly how you should draft in the first round. The only time we didn't was the Paddy one and it back fired.

Picking for needs is what you do with later picks.

I think the way it ended up was that we got a decent mix anyway. Max and Paddy were drafted as key forwards.

Clark and Gresham were taken as mids (Yes I know Gresham played the majority of his first three years at AFL level as a forward but he's not the first to do that)

Coff and Billings were taken as flankers who we'd hope would spend some time as mids.

Then you have Dunstan and Acres who were both late firsts. Dunstan was a pure mid, Acres a mid/flanker

this post x1000

my two biggest WTF moments over the course of the rebuild were:
1) the tom lee trade
2) the mccartin selection

i just didn't understand either, no matter how i flipped it and looked at it from different angles, it just didn't add up. they're just horrible and there's literally no excuse for it. particularly the mccartin. it's just so so so bad it beggars belief as to what the * was happening within the list committee to produce such a terrible outcome.

the other minor ones were:
3) the TDL trade
4) the future trade with port

one i scratched my head over but didn't spend any time looking into:
5) the future trading last year

 

[SaintsSeptember]

this post x1000

my two biggest WTF moments over the course of the rebuild were:
1) the tom lee trade
2) the mccartin selection

i just didn't understand either, no matter how i flipped it and looked at it from different angles, it just didn't add up. they're just horrible and there's literally no excuse for it. particularly the mccartin. it's just so so so bad it beggars belief as to what the **** was happening within the list committee to produce such a terrible outcome.

the other minor ones were:
3) the TDL trade
4) the future trade with port

one i scratched my head over but didn't spend any time looking into:
5) the future trading last year

Ironically the best two players ( if not the only two ) taken at or after Trent Dennis Lane's pick, were Membrey and Kent.
And i sort of think if we didn't do the pick swap for Lee, (white ) we would have picked someone equally crap

 

[gringo2011]

Ironically the best two players ( if not the only two ) taken at or after Trent Dennis Lane's pick, were Membrey and Kent.
And i sort of think if we didn't do the pick swap for Lee, (white ) we would have picked someone equally crap

Yeah, getting the Pelican out of the club was the best thing we could have done. He was like Mr Bean, he was a walking disaster. I think the Hickey and Longer trades have probably been just as s**t as well. That era wasn't great but we seem to be on track now.