2017 Carlton's Best 22

[Soapy V]

see our rise as possibly shadowing - hopefully leading - the demons progress

i am very much the same. my hope is we are further advanced. we have murphy gibbs docherty simpson rowe curnow kruezer wright palmer a.silvagni as good mature leaders (that can play very good footy) but we also have plowman marchbank sumner phillips pickett that although still young have had time in the system. they're ready to play. weiteirng & cripps are mature beyond their years and cuningham charlie and silvagni will really improve on the back of games last year. i expect sps, mckay & fisher to step straight in and play 15-20 games. lebois polson will hopefully play the majority and macreadie williamson & kerr may play later in the season. it is so important to get games into these kids. then there's byrne! if the rest of the 2016 & 17 drafts can step up quickly i reckon things can turn right around in 2-3 years. i've said it before but with some game time into the kids i'm excited for 2018/19.

that is the reason for my hope and optimism.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

i am very much the same. my hope is we are further advanced. we have murphy gibbs docherty simpson rowe curnow kruezer wright palmer a.silvagni as good mature leaders (that can play very good footy) but we also have plowman marchbank sumner phillips pickett that although still young have had time in the system. they're ready to play. weiteirng & cripps are mature beyond their years and cuningham charlie and silvagni will really improve on the back of games last year. i expect sps, mckay & fisher to step straight in and play 15-20 games. lebois polson will hopefully play the majority and macreadie williamson & kerr may play later in the season. it is so important to get games into these kids. then there's byrne! if the rest of the 2016 & 17 drafts can step up quickly i reckon things can turn right around in 2-3 years. i've said it before but with some game time into the kids i'm excited for 2018/19.

that is the reason for my hope and optimism.

There are some positives from the past two draft groups and trades,i think 2017 will be quite an interesting season.
Our list is still set for another reshuffle next draft/trade though,we are heavy on b grade players that are not even effective in the Vfl.
We really need another 3 x top 10 draft picks this year as we did in 2015--->how do we get there?

 

[Soapy V]

There are some positives from the past two draft groups and trades,i think 2017 will be quite an interesting season.
Our list is still set for another reshuffle next draft/trade though,we are heavy on b grade players that are not even effective in the Vfl.
We really need another 3 x top 10 draft picks this year as we did in 2015--->how do we get there?

agree. one or two very good free agents as well. lots of salary cap space next year

 

[COBALT BLUE]

agree. one or two very good free agents as well. lots of salary cap space next year

get the trades/free agents in our target age group..under 23 yrs
We are not ready for another Judd just yet.

 

[Red Bull]

get the trades/free agents in our target age group..under 23 yrs
We are not ready for another Judd just yet.

FA under 23yo ?
Where do we sign ?

 

[ParapMarkets]

i am very much the same. my hope is we are further advanced. we have murphy gibbs docherty simpson rowe curnow kruezer wright palmer a.silvagni as good mature leaders (that can play very good footy) but we also have plowman marchbank sumner phillips pickett that although still young have had time in the system. they're ready to play. weiteirng & cripps are mature beyond their years and cuningham charlie and silvagni will really improve on the back of games last year. i expect sps, mckay & fisher to step straight in and play 15-20 games. lebois polson will hopefully play the majority and macreadie williamson & kerr may play later in the season. it is so important to get games into these kids. then there's byrne! if the rest of the 2016 & 17 drafts can step up quickly i reckon things can turn right around in 2-3 years. i've said it before but with some game time into the kids i'm excited for 2018/19.

that is the reason for my hope and optimism.

Great post Soapy. Can you break it up into paragraphs? It makes things easier for us lazy readers. I'm not being a smart arse here, people don't read massive posts with no breaks........ it just seems like hard work.

 

[therubbernub]

I know this will upset some of you a bit but it really gives me the shits when people play C.Curnow in the middle or a wing. I know we want the next "Nat Fyfe" type player but i dont think he will be he will be a very very amazing CHF though

Whats a CHF these days anyway?

 

[Metalcrusher]

Curnow Holds the Fort?

 

[COBALT BLUE]

i am very much the same. my hope is we are further advanced. we have murphy gibbs docherty simpson rowe curnow kruezer wright palmer a.silvagni as good mature leaders (that can play very good footy) but we also have plowman marchbank sumner phillips pickett that although still young have had time in the system. they're ready to play. weiteirng & cripps are mature beyond their years and cuningham charlie and silvagni will really improve on the back of games last year. i expect sps, mckay & fisher to step straight in and play 15-20 games. lebois polson will hopefully play the majority and macreadie williamson & kerr may play later in the season. it is so important to get games into these kids. then there's byrne! if the rest of the 2016 & 17 drafts can step up quickly i reckon things can turn right around in 2-3 years. i've said it before but with some game time into the kids i'm excited for 2018/19.

that is the reason for my hope and optimism.

SOS is the totally very competitive type and now we are locked in with him and Bolts...you get the feeling he [SOS]wont rest until we begin to see some success and from your above post we already are seeing actual foundations in place.I dont think all of our drafts or trades will be successes though..and it will be a tough ongoing process of mining out winners and strengthening the club.2019 could be top eight,if the team is training well why not.

 

[Blues90]

Whats a CHF these days anyway?

It hasnt exactly changed much to what it was they just cover more ground and go deeper at times than they used to

 

[gbatman]

Has anyone contemplated a best 22 without Kreuzer, Phillips, Gorringe or Korchek?

I've had the thought for a number of years now that teams will go back to ruckmen who can play football. We've just seen a side win a premiership with Roughead (200cm) and Boyd (201cm) in it, both started as key position players but ended up going in the ruck and the advantage it gave the Bulldogs was massive. It gave them a massive edge over their opposition and won them a premiership.

Levi Casboult (198cm) is a decent ruckman, he doesn't lose many hitouts and he can play football. He's a good reader of the play, good at dropping back in defence and has good skills around the ground not to mention a superior mark to all our ruckmen. McKay (200cm+) is a massive young forward with a good leap, should be able to ruck, may be no different to Tom Boyd really who has excelled since going into the midfield.

Benefits:

When Kreuzer or Phillips are forward which they have to be we have 5 forwards. Lets not sugar coat things they can't play there. McKay and Casboult are actually forwards and we would always have one forward and one rucking with high rotations as we wouldn't need to use the bench.

Would save on bench rotations as the ruckmen wouldn't use the bench. Spend more rotations on mids and half backs. Keeps the rucks fresher to cover more midfield area and run harder to become a target or defensive post.

An extra player in the midfield. Kreuzer and Phillips get it 6-13 times per game. They hardly touch it. They don't dominate in the ruck or kick that many goals. TBH how is this not a waste of space? Put two guys in who are a little smarter, more mobile and better skilled then we might be looking at having two players who ruck, kick 1-2 goals per game, can get and use the football, let's say 10-18 times a game and may offer more pressure acts with extra mobility.

A vastly improved structure and a more flexible team. Great ability to change the forwardline structure from tall to small without hurting the midfield rotations. Significantly better forward structure. Greater advantage in open play. Solves the problem of what to do with all the talls. Drop the ones who can't play football. Simple. If you can't play forward, or back or get the ball you're a C grader. Being a ruckman shouldn't be an excuse.

Gets players into the game and develops them. Casboult had his best season and kicked the most goals playing as the second ruck in 2015. This is because it gets them into the game and gets the ball into their hands. Has been poor locked away up forward which would be a poor way to develop McKay. Get the ball in their hands! We saw how this developed Tom Boyd's game! Lets develop McKay this way!

Two extra footballer get a game. McKay and Casboult get a game which they should. No others, particularly smaller players have to make way for the ruckmen. Extra runners in the team = extra run.

The 10 possession no goals a game immobile lumbering giant who can't play football is dead. The Bulldogs proved it. We need to get with the times. Disagree? Rewatch the 2016 grand final and preliminary final.

If we are a tad tall down back, Rowe can jump in the ruck for 5 minutes a quarter, go with a 3 way ruck rotation and really hammer the opposition in the run department in the ruck.

B: Plowman Rowe Docherty
HB: Simpson Marchbank Byrne (Cuningham)
C: Petrevski-Seaton Cripps C. Curnow
HF: Murphy Weitering Smedts
F: Silvagni McKay Pickett
OB: Casboult Gibbs E. Curnow
IC: Palmer Wright Buckley Armfield

Close:
Sumner Jaksch Fisher Armfield Cuningham Polson Thomas White Sheehan Lebois Silvagni Macreadie Kerridge Boekhorst

Only thing about that side that's iffy is perhaps not enough onballers, particularly on the bench but I think that's more the state of our list. Could always change Charlie Curnow and Petrevski from wing to center rotations. With Buckley and Armfield/Palmer wing.

Changes:
Apart from an opportunity to get rid of the one dimensional ruckmen, I think we'll hopefully see extra changes.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cuningham play half back. Weitering forward gives us a big strong marking target who can run. I think Charlie Curnow, Murphy, Smedts, Petrevski-Seaton, Gibbs, Casboult, McKay, Palmer, Wright, Armfield, Silvagni and Buckley will all play a bit multi-positionally, mainly forward and midfield. Simpson, Cuningham and Docherty also capable of playing wing. Marchbank may play a little at both ends and Weitering may also play a bit both ends as well. Silvagni and Curnow would be good to see go into the center on occasion.

Greater rotations. That side really does have some good rotations in it. At times we didn't rotate heavily last year because some of the players just didn't play their other position well. That should change.

There is room for youngsters to step up. The bench in that side is not a certainty. Pickett will need to be fit and there is a spot up for grabs in defence for an attacking running defender. Good form from LeBois, Fisher, Sumner and Thomas and they can get into that side I feel. I think any talls that get injured or rested Macreadie might come in and play back. Marchbank and Weitering to play what ever end they fit into.

Kreuzer to replace McKay or Casboult when they miss.

Certainly would be looking to reward young players form and get games into them.

 

[HARKER]

Has anyone contemplated a best 22 without Kreuzer, Phillips, Gorringe or Korchek?

I've had the thought for a number of years now that teams will go back to ruckmen who can play football. We've just seen a side win a premiership with Roughead (200cm) and Boyd (201cm) in it, both started as key position players but ended up going in the ruck and the advantage it gave the Bulldogs was massive. It gave them a massive edge over their opposition and won them a premiership.

Levi Casboult (198cm) is a decent ruckman, he doesn't lose many hitouts and he can play football. He's a good reader of the play, good at dropping back in defence and has good skills around the ground not to mention a superior mark to all our ruckmen. McKay (200cm+) is a massive young forward with a good leap, should be able to ruck, may be no different to Tom Boyd really who has excelled since going into the midfield.

Benefits:

When Kreuzer or Phillips are forward which they have to be we have 5 forwards. Lets not sugar coat things they can't play there. McKay and Casboult are actually forwards and we would always have one forward and one rucking with high rotations as we wouldn't need to use the bench.

Would save on bench rotations as the ruckmen wouldn't use the bench. Spend more rotations on mids and half backs. Keeps the rucks fresher to cover more midfield area and run harder to become a target or defensive post.

An extra player in the midfield. Kreuzer and Phillips get it 6-13 times per game. They hardly touch it. They don't dominate in the ruck or kick that many goals. TBH how is this not a waste of space? Put two guys in who are a little smarter, more mobile and better skilled then we might be looking at having two players who ruck, kick 1-2 goals per game, can get and use the football, let's say 10-18 times a game and may offer more pressure acts with extra mobility.

A vastly improved structure and a more flexible team. Great ability to change the forwardline structure from tall to small without hurting the midfield rotations. Significantly better forward structure. Greater advantage in open play. Solves the problem of what to do with all the talls. Drop the ones who can't play football. Simple. If you can't play forward, or back or get the ball you're a C grader. Being a ruckman shouldn't be an excuse.

Gets players into the game and develops them. Casboult had his best season and kicked the most goals playing as the second ruck in 2015. This is because it gets them into the game and gets the ball into their hands. Has been poor locked away up forward which would be a poor way to develop McKay. Get the ball in their hands! We saw how this developed Tom Boyd's game! Lets develop McKay this way!

Two extra footballer get a game. McKay and Casboult get a game which they should. No others, particularly smaller players have to make way for the ruckmen. Extra runners in the team = extra run.

The 10 possession no goals a game immobile lumbering giant who can't play football is dead. The Bulldogs proved it. We need to get with the times. Disagree? Rewatch the 2016 grand final and preliminary final.

B: Plowman Rowe Docherty
HB: Simpson Marchbank Byrne (Cuningham)
C: Petrevski-Seaton Cripps C. Curnow
HF: Murphy Weitering Smedts
F: Silvagni McKay Pickett
OB: Casboult Gibbs E. Curnow
IC: Palmer Wright Buckley Armfield

Close:
Sumner Jaksch Fisher Armfield Cuningham Polson Thomas White Sheehan Lebois Silvagni Macreadie Kerridge Boekhorst

Only thing about that side that's iffy is perhaps not enough onballers, particularly on the bench but I think that's more the state of our list. Could always change Charlie Curnow and Petrevski from wing to center rotations. With Buckley and Armfield/Palmer wing.

Changes:
Apart from an opportunity to get rid of the one dimensional ruckmen, I think we'll hopefully see extra changes.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cuningham play half back. Weitering forward gives us a big strong marking target who can run. I think Charlie Curnow, Murphy, Smedts, Petrevski-Seaton, Gibbs, Casboult, McKay, Palmer, Wright, Armfield, Silvagni and Buckley will all play a bit multi-positionally, mainly forward and midfield. Simpson, Cuningham and Docherty also capable of playing wing. Marchbank may play a little at both ends and Weitering may also play a bit both ends as well. Silvagni and Curnow would be good to see go into the center on occasion.

Greater rotations. That side really does have some good rotations in it. At times we didn't rotate heavily last year because some of the players just didn't play their other position well. That should change.

There is room for youngsters to step up. The bench in that side is not a certainty. Pickett will need to be fit and there is a spot up for grabs in defence for an attacking running defender. Good form from LeBois, Fisher, Sumner and Thomas and they can get into that side I feel. I think any talls that get injured or rested Macreadie might come in and play back. Marchbank and Weitering to play what ever end they fit into.

Kreuzer to replace McKay or Casboult when they miss.

Certainly would be looking to reward young players form and get games into them.

It's a fair question and yes, it is fair to contemplate in our current situation.
We wouldn't be posing the question should we have a Sandilands, Goldstein or NicNat......but we haven't.

One thing we may find this year though, is that playing Kreuzer & Phillips together may not work.
It hasn't to date and no reason to say it will in the future. Ruck-men just can't be ruck-men any more........and having two on the ground at any one time is severe overload when they can't muster up 20 possessions or kick a couple of goals.

 

[Soapy V]

Has anyone contemplated a best 22 without Kreuzer, Phillips, Gorringe or Korchek?

I've had the thought for a number of years now that teams will go back to ruckmen who can play football. We've just seen a side win a premiership with Roughead (200cm) and Boyd (201cm) in it, both started as key position players but ended up going in the ruck and the advantage it gave the Bulldogs was massive. It gave them a massive edge over their opposition and won them a premiership.

Levi Casboult (198cm) is a decent ruckman, he doesn't lose many hitouts and he can play football. He's a good reader of the play, good at dropping back in defence and has good skills around the ground not to mention a superior mark to all our ruckmen. McKay (200cm+) is a massive young forward with a good leap, should be able to ruck, may be no different to Tom Boyd really who has excelled since going into the midfield.

Benefits:

When Kreuzer or Phillips are forward which they have to be we have 5 forwards. Lets not sugar coat things they can't play there. McKay and Casboult are actually forwards and we would always have one forward and one rucking with high rotations as we wouldn't need to use the bench.

Would save on bench rotations as the ruckmen wouldn't use the bench. Spend more rotations on mids and half backs. Keeps the rucks fresher to cover more midfield area and run harder to become a target or defensive post.

An extra player in the midfield. Kreuzer and Phillips get it 6-13 times per game. They hardly touch it. They don't dominate in the ruck or kick that many goals. TBH how is this not a waste of space? Put two guys in who are a little smarter, more mobile and better skilled then we might be looking at having two players who ruck, kick 1-2 goals per game, can get and use the football, let's say 10-18 times a game and may offer more pressure acts with extra mobility.

A vastly improved structure and a more flexible team. Great ability to change the forwardline structure from tall to small without hurting the midfield rotations. Significantly better forward structure. Greater advantage in open play. Solves the problem of what to do with all the talls. Drop the ones who can't play football. Simple. If you can't play forward, or back or get the ball you're a C grader. Being a ruckman shouldn't be an excuse.

Gets players into the game and develops them. Casboult had his best season and kicked the most goals playing as the second ruck in 2015. This is because it gets them into the game and gets the ball into their hands. Has been poor locked away up forward which would be a poor way to develop McKay. Get the ball in their hands! We saw how this developed Tom Boyd's game! Lets develop McKay this way!

Two extra footballer get a game. McKay and Casboult get a game which they should. No others, particularly smaller players have to make way for the ruckmen. Extra runners in the team = extra run.

The 10 possession no goals a game immobile lumbering giant who can't play football is dead. The Bulldogs proved it. We need to get with the times. Disagree? Rewatch the 2016 grand final and preliminary final.

If we are a tad tall down back, Rowe can jump in the ruck for 5 minutes a quarter, go with a 3 way ruck rotation and really hammer the opposition in the run department in the ruck.

B: Plowman Rowe Docherty
HB: Simpson Marchbank Byrne (Cuningham)
C: Petrevski-Seaton Cripps C. Curnow
HF: Murphy Weitering Smedts
F: Silvagni McKay Pickett
OB: Casboult Gibbs E. Curnow
IC: Palmer Wright Buckley Armfield

Close:
Sumner Jaksch Fisher Armfield Cuningham Polson Thomas White Sheehan Lebois Silvagni Macreadie Kerridge Boekhorst

Only thing about that side that's iffy is perhaps not enough onballers, particularly on the bench but I think that's more the state of our list. Could always change Charlie Curnow and Petrevski from wing to center rotations. With Buckley and Armfield/Palmer wing.

Changes:
Apart from an opportunity to get rid of the one dimensional ruckmen, I think we'll hopefully see extra changes.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cuningham play half back. Weitering forward gives us a big strong marking target who can run. I think Charlie Curnow, Murphy, Smedts, Petrevski-Seaton, Gibbs, Casboult, McKay, Palmer, Wright, Armfield, Silvagni and Buckley will all play a bit multi-positionally, mainly forward and midfield. Simpson, Cuningham and Docherty also capable of playing wing. Marchbank may play a little at both ends and Weitering may also play a bit both ends as well. Silvagni and Curnow would be good to see go into the center on occasion.

Greater rotations. That side really does have some good rotations in it. At times we didn't rotate heavily last year because some of the players just didn't play their other position well. That should change.

There is room for youngsters to step up. The bench in that side is not a certainty. Pickett will need to be fit and there is a spot up for grabs in defence for an attacking running defender. Good form from LeBois, Fisher, Sumner and Thomas and they can get into that side I feel. I think any talls that get injured or rested Macreadie might come in and play back. Marchbank and Weitering to play what ever end they fit into.

Kreuzer to replace McKay or Casboult when they miss.

Certainly would be looking to reward young players form and get games into them.

Great write up and a fantastic understanding of the way the game is heading. The only thing I disagree with is Casboult who doesn't have the engine to ruck consistently and Cuningham would be in my best 22 every time if it Byrne is fit.

I have said it before but I would like to see a mobile ruck/fwd combination of Rowe Gorringe & McKay. All are mobile and keeps them fresh and are no worse than anything else we have

 

[Soapy V]

We wouldn't be posing the question should we have a Sandilands, Goldstein or NicNat......but we haven't.

Very true and I would add Gawn to that list. If we had one of those they would play 80% ruck supported by a tall forward. Surely that is what needs to happen with Kruezer or Phillips, not both.

 

[Jeremias]

One thing we may find this year though, is that playing Kreuzer & Phillips together may not work.
It hasn't to date and no reason to say it will in the future. Ruck-men just can't be ruck-men any more........and having two on the ground at any one time is severe overload when they can't muster up 20 possessions or kick a couple of goals.

The combination does not work and will continue to be sub-optimal until one (or both) are able to produce up forward.

Regardless, we went with that combination exclusively last year when it was available to us & I have no reason to think we won't go down that path again in 2017 - but a number of reasons as to why we will.

2018 is a different story.

 

[gbatman]

It's a fair question and yes, it is fair to contemplate in our current situation.
We wouldn't be posing the question should we have a Sandilands, Goldstein or NicNat......but we haven't.

One thing we may find this year though, is that playing Kreuzer & Phillips together may not work.
It hasn't to date and no reason to say it will in the future. Ruck-men just can't be ruck-men any more........and having two on the ground at any one time is severe overload when they can't muster up 20 possessions or kick a couple of goals.

Spot on, our ruckmen aren't that great and offer little. Casboult is a good footballer and better than a second string ruckman. McKay could be anything and Rowe can back them up.

I think we gain a hell of a lot more than we lose by replacing Kreuzer and Phillips with Casboult and McKay.

Kreuzer and Phillips averaged .71 goals per game 17.81 disposals per game together. If McKay is any good, which I think he will be, he will probably eventually do this on his own and Casboult will go close. Tom Boyd 14 possessions, 8 marks and 3 goals in a massive game. Doubt you'll get that from Kreuzer or Phillips.

Kreuzer and Phillips in the team together really hamstrung us last year. It might have gave us a few extra hitouts but really that's overrated. It took run and an extra forward out of our team.

Totally agree, ruckmen need to be footballers/forwards too. It was like that for years pre 2000, then there was this shift to big lumbering giants and now it's shifting back. Tippett another example, him going into the ruck was great for Sydney who were runners up.

Giant lumbering forwards are dead. They are going into the ruck to save their careers and are actually having big impacts on games which is creating a trend, especially with more focus on run, speed, pressure acts and onfield rotations with limited bench rotations.

I think we're in a prime position to take advantage of this trend of having forward/rucks as the main rucks and not having unskilled, slow, immobile and untalented tall ruckmen.

 

[gbatman]

Great write up and a fantastic understanding of the way the game is heading. The only thing I disagree with is Casboult who doesn't have the engine to ruck consistently and Cuningham would be in my best 22 every time if it Byrne is fit.

I have said it before but I would like to see a mobile ruck/fwd combination of Rowe Gorringe & McKay. All are mobile and keeps them fresh and are no worse than anything else we have

Casboult was too heavy last year and needs to lose a few kilograms and really train his running hard. No reason he couldn't. A three way rotation system involving Rowe, Casboult and McKay would be really interesting. Really get them running hard into space, I think you'd see the rucks getting lose a lot. Really give us a target around the ground. I do like that tactic. We're tall enough down back to stop most forward lines but even if we aren't.

This is how I would manage a 3 way ruck rotation in that team.

Casboult - ruck
McKay - forward
Rowe - Back
Weitering - forward

Casboult - forward
McKay - ruck
Rowe - Back
Weitering - forward

Casboult - forward
McKay - forward
Rowe - ruck
Weitering - Back

TBH that looks like it would work extremely well. Run the guts out of the opposition rucks. Keep the opposition defence guessing. We lose nothing in regards to quality or height at any time. That actually looks really really good and shits all over what we have been doing.

 

[Soapy V]

Casboult was too heavy last year and needs to lose a few kilograms and really train his running hard. No reason he couldn't.

The only reason I question it is there was comment last year by Bolton that strongly suggested that he was tried there and after 5 or minutes he was absolutely shot and became even more ineffective as a forward. I know after that time Bolton hardly if ever used him on ball again. But I like your comments

 

[HARKER]

That looks really busy G-Bat.

Not sure how that would work in practice as it would ask for Weitering to be all over the shop.
We don't even know whether McKay is ready for a ruck role.

 

[TooBlue14]

Casboult was too heavy last year and needs to lose a few kilograms and really train his running hard. No reason he couldn't. A three way rotation system involving Rowe, Casboult and McKay would be really interesting. Really get them running hard into space, I think you'd see the rucks getting lose a lot. Really give us a target around the ground. I do like that tactic. We're tall enough down back to stop most forward lines but even if we aren't.

This is how I would manage a 3 way ruck rotation in that team.

Casboult - ruck
McKay - forward
Rowe - Back
Weitering - forward

Casboult - forward
McKay - ruck
Rowe - Back
Weitering - forward

Casboult - forward
McKay - forward
Rowe - ruck
Weitering - Back

TBH that looks like it would work extremely well. Run the guts out of the opposition rucks. Keep the opposition defence guessing. We lose nothing in regards to quality or height at any time. That actually looks really really good and shits all over what we have been doing.

You could also go:

Casboult: forward
McKay: ruck
Rowe: forward
Weitering: Back

 

[gbatman]

That looks really busy G-Bat.

Not sure how that would work in practice as it would ask for Weitering to be all over the shop.
We don't even know whether McKay is ready for a ruck role.

If I can get similar things to run in low level country football then surely at AFL level with a load of assistant coaches, it would be easy. Players I think watch the clock and know when to rotate from that. You would have one guy, say Capuano in charge of running the whole thing.

Weitering is good enough. He really knows how to play back, if he figures out the forward line he'd be fine. He's actually the perfect player to play this way. He's very smart and settles in well, I think this would be really using this side of his abilities.

Whether McKay is or isn't capable of rucking, you need to ask yourself why can't he? He's massive with a massive leap, a great athlete. I'd be surprised if he isn't and really think at his size it's unlikely that he will be a permanent forward. I think this is his future and the best way to develop him. The Western Bulldogs didn't know Boyd was ready to take on a major ruck role until the finals. He probably should have been the Norm Smith medalist in this role. But lucky he wasn't because I won good money on Johannisen. Either way, we play him in this role and show patience and we may end up with a player that is far more damaging than he would be had he been left to just play forward which at times can be really tough for a young player to get their hands on the ball and make progress and gain confidence.

The only reason I question it is there was comment last year by Bolton that strongly suggested that he was tried there and after 5 or minutes he was absolutely shot and became even more ineffective as a forward. I know after that time Bolton hardly if ever used him on ball again. But I like your comments

Yes I noticed that he was hardly used on the ball. Perhaps he had a slack preseason or an injury or trained wrong. He did the role well in 2015 where he subsequently kicked a lot more goals. I really think he could be trained to do it, if he wants to be an AFL footballer and survive he has to. I think you will see guys like Cloke, who I hear has lost 7KG+ playing this sort of role in the ruck.

The way I see it, really big forwards lacking mobility are going extinct if they don't ruck. Really big rucks who lack talent and mobility are going extinct if they can't go forward or find the ball around the ground and I think it's fantastic for football.

 

[gbatman]

You could also go:

Casboult: forward
McKay: ruck
Rowe: forward
Weitering: Back

You could but I prefer the player with the stronger hands forward though Rowe is capable at both ends but probably a better backman as forwards are more reliant on being able to mark it and I see Weitering as the better mark.

 

[TerryWallet]

The only reason I question it is there was comment last year by Bolton that strongly suggested that he was tried there and after 5 or minutes he was absolutely shot and became even more ineffective as a forward. I know after that time Bolton hardly if ever used him on ball again. But I like your comments

Casboult had, i think, something like 9 hitout's for the year last year. Bolton clearly doesn't see him as an AFL ruckman...and for a very good reason. He is not one.

Casboult was given the whole year as a pure forward, with no cop out that he had to help out in the Ruck...and failed again. He is not an AFL standard forward.

As a player, and a team member, he is just not up to AFL standard...by a long way.

He is 27yo, been on the list for 10 years, and has been given more chances than anyone i can think of. Any of the other talls on our list are now more deserving of chances.

They might also fail, they may have already failed a few times...but they haven't failed near as much, or for as long, as Levi.

As you've eloquently, and patiently said elswhere, it is well past time to move past Levi other than if we have a long list of injured talls.

 

[HARKER]

Casboult had, i think, something like 9 hitout's for the year last year. Bolton clearly doesn't see him as an AFL ruckman...and for a very good reason. He is not one.

Casboult was given the whole year as a pure forward, with no cop out that he had to help out in the Ruck...and failed again. He is not an AFL standard forward.

As a player, and a team member, he is just not up to AFL standard...by a long way.

He is 27yo, been on the list for 10 years, and has been given more chances than anyone i can think of. Any of the other talls on our list are now more deserving of chances.

They might also fail, they may have already failed a few times...but they haven't failed near as much, or for as long, as Levi.

As you've eloquently, and patiently said elswhere, it is well past time to move past Levi other than if we have a long list of injured talls.

ummm.....ahhh.....neither is Gorringe.

Maybe Bolton just wanted to settle the ship rather than throw players all around the shop.
For what it's worth, I think Casboult impacts more in the ruck than Gorringe, when given the chance.

That alone isn't enough I know, but given a choice between the two.......must go Levi.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

While I agree that we can't keep playing the two rucks in Kreuzer and Phillips, I don't really see how the Dogs example applies to Carlton.
Dogs proved that, with an incredible midfield, you don't require a dominant tap ruckman. On the other hand WCE were an example of a subpar midfield which falls apart completely when they don't have a dominant tap ruckman.