Strategy 2019 - Best 22 & Player Discussion

salim malik

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Yep. You're right. Logue showed he has a very good footy nous in his first year in terms of body positioning in marking contests and not being exposed defensively by experienced players. While no one knows the future plans as far as next season goes I think it's fair to say they would have added a tall defender if they didnt think Logue would fill that role if Alex Pearce and/or Hamling was injured. Cox has been more of a a forward than defender so far at afl level and we pretty much only have third tall defenders outside of that so while 'no one knows' freo plans as far as next year goes it's a pretty good chance they see Griff as a key defnder/third tall if everyone's available. If not we would have the shallowest depth in key defensive talls of any team in history. He was also mentored by Mcpharlin last preseason. Again, its not definite, but a reasonable deduction to assume Luke was chosen because of the similarities between himself and Griff in terms of key defensive traits.

Like I said things could change, but in the forceable future Griiff looks likely to play as a key tall when you look at the list. I think he's grown a centremetre or two since he last played afl, so the fact taht he could be 194cm or taller would also help him to play a key position role.

Personally I though he played his best football in his first year when playing as the second tall rather than the third tall. In my view if you have another look at his first season, but view him as a key defensive prospects, then his year looks a lot better than most on here appear to think. At the moment he reminds me a lot of a young Alex Rance, who started his career in shutdown roles (using supreme athleticism to stop his man) and then developed his creative intercept play as the years have gone on.

Ill do a deal Salim. If Griff is turned into a midfileder within the next two years ill admit im wrong and promise to shout you lunch and a few beverages to watch an away game at a Perth pub. You'll owe me nothing if he doesnt.



No need for a bet, glad to buy you a beer or two. Mid or back doesnt really matter because Logue will be a star where ever he lines up
 

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dockerfemme

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I agree we could do with more inside pace. Id like to see Langdon be given some inside mid time with the hill boys and Colyer rotating on the wings. From what Ive seen Bewley looks quicker than advertised and he could also play a role there. For what's its worth Brayshaw did better than people would think in some of the Champion data speed results last year. I was only able to find a few of the results last season and Brayshaw was definitely in the top 5 in terms of maximum speed of players on the ground at least twice. It was the North home loss and one other game from memory. That doesnt mean he's quick from stoppages, but I think he's quicker than people think. Banfield and Fyfe are also pretty quick as well.
I think Blakely has shown pace around stoppages. That is probably burst pace and also because he reads the play well rather than pace over a distance.
 

wayToGo_

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His game against Buddy, Sydney’s biggest forward, in the 2016 GF, the biggest game of his life, was useful too.

And he took Patton in the PF (with mixed results).
And vs Kennedy in the Elimination Final. Rioli almost tore him apart (with his agility) a few times in that semi - he still kicked one and created 3 others from sheer agility advantage over Joel. If Roughy was playing would he have been on Cyril? Think he was on him because Clarkson played him as a deep forward - Hawks were really lacking height forward of centre that game - worked ok early until the Dogs clamped down on their fast ball movement and Cyril couldn't get out the back and then couldn't win in the air against much taller opponents (Hamling, Morris etc). Not saying he can't play on smalls (I think he goes pretty well considering), but I'd take what he did to Buddy, Kennedy and Patton in the other finals every day of the week.
 
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I think Blakely has shown pace around stoppages. That is probably burst pace and also because he reads the play well rather than pace over a distance.
Half of that is the ability to take the ball at pace like mundy. You don't need to be quick around the stoppages just not to be caught on that first one or two steps priddis and Mitchell are good examples (it should be noted midfields can only really carry one or two of these slow inside mids).
 

Kenny_01

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We have a good group of 30ish players to drive us forward. Anyone listed could arguably be best 22.

Defenders:
Alex Pearce
Joel Hamling
Griffin Logue
Luke Ryan
Nathan Wilson
Taylin Duman
Other depth: Kersten, Nyhuis, Hughes, Watson, Carter

Midfielders/Utility:
Nathan Fyfe
David Mundy
Harley Bennell
Connor Blakely
Ed Langdon
Brad Hill
Stephen Hill
Brett Bewley
Andrew Brayshaw
Adam Cerra
Bailey Banfield
Reece Conca
Travis Colyer
Darcy Tucker
Other depth: Valente, North, Crowden, Giro

Ruck:
Aaron Sandilands
Sean Darcy
Other depth: Jones, Meek

Foward:
Jesse Hogan
Rory Lobb
Matthew Taberner
Brennan Cox
Cam McCarthy
Michael Walters
Brandon Matera
Sam Switowski
Other depth: Ballantyne, Sturt, Schultz, Dixon
 

theGav56

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We have a good group of 30ish players to drive us forward. Anyone listed could arguably be best 22.

Defenders:
Alex Pearce*
Joel Hamling

Griffin Logue
Luke Ryan*
Nathan Wilson

Taylin Duman
Other depth: Kersten, Nyhuis, Hughes, Watson, Carter

Midfielders/Utility:
Nathan Fyfe*
David Mundy

Harley Bennell
Connor Blakely
Ed Langdon
Brad Hill
Stephen Hill

Brett Bewley
Andrew Brayshaw
Adam Cerra
Bailey Banfield
Reece Conca
Travis Colyer
Darcy Tucker
Other depth: Valente, North, Crowden, Giro

Ruck:
Aaron Sandilands
Sean Darcy
Other depth: Jones, Meek

Foward:
Jesse Hogan
Rory Lobb*

Matthew Taberner
Brennan Cox
Cam McCarthy
Michael Walters*
Brandon Matera
Sam Switowski
Other depth: Ballantyne, Sturt, Schultz, Dixon
Yes, nailed the numbers here, and there is probably some equation about thirty players who could all be best 22 = pushing for the 8. I think you are stretching a little with Bewley and Switkowski (I definitely agree they are best 22 options, but have yet to really show it).

I have bolded the players who I think you could more or less expect to see in the best 22 of every/most sides.

I've put an * beside players I have as chances for AA if things go well.

Fyfe is a chance for the Brownlow.

In short, if we play to potential, and if the side can come to terms with each other and the game plan.....Watch OUT!
 

Daddoo

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Fyfe is a chance for the Brownlow.

!
As long as he stays healthy he can make a run. Plus I don’t think the reigning Brownlow medalist is gonna have a big year. Just a feeling. A feeling in my tibia and fibula, that is. ;)


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theGav56

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I really feel Switkowski should be in the team for round one but that Ross will pick the experience in Ballantyne.

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Why "should" he be? Why not Schultz? Matera? Why not just let the players get through the pre-season?

One of the key things this season, and especially early, is getting the players to understand the game plan, and experienced players such as Ballantyne have a key on-field role to achieve that. And how much better for an emerging player to displace an established guy like Ballantyne through weight of performance rather than just being next in line. I hope Switkowski gets into the side because he deserves it, and I can't say that he has clearly done that. Did pretty well in the run though, which is a great start.
 

BigKep

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Why "should" he be? Why not Schultz? Matera? Why not just let the players get through the pre-season?

One of the key things this season, and especially early, is getting the players to understand the game plan, and experienced players such as Ballantyne have a key on-field role to achieve that. And how much better for an emerging player to displace an established guy like Ballantyne through weight of performance rather than just being next in line. I hope Switkowski gets into the side because he deserves it, and I can't say that he has clearly done that. Did pretty well in the run though, which is a great start.
He "should" be in the team because simply put I feel he's surpassed Ballantyne. Despite his 4 goal effort at the end of last season Ballas hasn't been at his best for 18 months or so. By no means am I a supporter of just picking guys because they're younger but I honestly feel Switto played well enough at the back end of last year to show he's deserving. That said I could be completely wrong and will be happy to admit it if I am.

Also, if we're just going to "let players get through the preseason" before naming our speculative B22's then what's the point in having this thread?
 

Docker82

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I think it’s fair to say Ballantyne outplayed Switkowski in both games they played together. Six goals to one in favour of Ballantyne in fact. When Carlton had crap tall forwards Eddie Betts was pretty shite too (well according to the masses anyway).

Ballantyne is starting Round One and rightly so. Switkowski or Schultz can force their way in via strength of performance in the WAFL. Ballantyne, Walters, Bennell and Colyer will start Round One (with midfield time for the last three) injury permitting.
 

theGav56

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He "should" be in the team because simply put I feel he's surpassed Ballantyne. Despite his 4 goal effort at the end of last season Ballas hasn't been at his best for 18 months or so. By no means am I a supporter of just picking guys because they're younger but I honestly feel Switto played well enough at the back end of last year to show he's deserving. That said I could be completely wrong and will be happy to admit it if I am.

Also, if we're just going to "let players get through the preseason" before naming our speculative B22's then what's the point in having this thread?
Speculate away. But you offered zero reason for your speculation and again in this post go for "I feel ". The critical achievement the club should be pursuing is a viable game plan. Transitioning to a younger list is well advanced and will continue. Players "should " be selected on merit because that is where our list stands now, and knowledge of the game plan and leadership ability is part of that. Competition for spots is critical.

By the way I don't think Ballantyne is an automatic selection, and I'm not advocating for him . I just think he has a role to play. I do think Switkowski needs to kick more goals.
 

prpl_jss

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I'm going to call Walters (and not just because I'm his buddy) for AA this year. With all the other pieces in place, he can focus on what he does best. i50s and creative goals. Had crap years the last two and seems to be at his best when he's not having to also carry a huge portion of the team. **** me I'm excited for this year. We're finally out of the woods gentlemen/ladies.
 

wayToGo_

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I think it’s fair to say Ballantyne outplayed Switkowski in both games they played together. Six goals to one in favour of Ballantyne in fact. When Carlton had crap tall forwards Eddie Betts was pretty shite too (well according to the masses anyway).
Go and rewatch the Collingwood game and you'll see why looking just at the goal tally is a considerably flawed way to assess the performance of or compare players. Ballas did play a decent game but he was a bit of a seagull with his 4 goals. It's a pity it wasn't Switkowski's debut because it was one of the best performances I've seen from a 2nd gamer. If he'd kicked one of his other two attempts and was more selfish a couple of other times his picture would have been on the back page (well if WA had a half decent rag it would). Unfortunately most people, like you have, just look at the goal tally and use that as the determining factor as to whether a forward played well or not.

He had the 2nd most score involvements on the ground (behind Fyfe) and he really deserved to have 4 goal assists against his name. He was good with his pressure, worked hard both ways, smart with ball in hand and surprisingly brilliant when given a couple of opportunities at stoppages (including an amazing centre clearance in the 4th that would have been a certain goal if McCarthy could mark the ball that day). He made a couple of mistakes but knowing how hard he works, I'd back him in to have already resolved those. What impressed me the most was his involvements were a catalyst for Freo that game. His 1st ever goal was the start of a 5 goal haul in the 1st, and he was a major reason Freo got back some momentum in the 4th.

Before that game I was thinking Switta was just a role playing pressure forward but came away thinking wow, if he can deliver that week in week out he could be a major reason for a lot more goals by Freo. Personally if I am choosing between a 31 year old who has underperformed in the vast majority of games the past three seasons, and a 22 year old who was a top 5 player on the ground in just his 2nd game, for a team in Freo's position (where it had the worst tackles inside 50 of all clubs last season) I know who'd I choose. Ballas was a great player for Freo in the past but he is far too inconsistent these days. Consistency should always be the non-negotiable when selecting a 30+ year old imo.
 

Jezzitizle

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Swita over Ballas every day of the week. Ballas isn’t clean at ground level anymore and it kills us.

Been a great servant of the club but he’s not the player he was. I hope he proves me wrong though.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see both in the team though, if anything Schulz needs to prove himself. Matera hard to gauge.
 

rgauci

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Go and rewatch the Collingwood game and you'll see why looking just at the goal tally is a considerably flawed way to assess the performance of or compare players. Ballas did play a decent game but he was a bit of a seagull with his 4 goals. It's a pity it wasn't Switkowski's debut because it was one of the best performances I've seen from a 2nd gamer. If he'd kicked one of his other two attempts and was more selfish a couple of other times his picture would have been on the back page (well if WA had a half decent rag it would). Unfortunately most people, like you have, just look at the goal tally and use that as the determining factor as to whether a forward played well or not.

He had the 2nd most score involvements on the ground (behind Fyfe) and he really deserved to have 4 goal assists against his name. He was good with his pressure, worked hard both ways, smart with ball in hand and surprisingly brilliant when given a couple of opportunities at stoppages (including an amazing centre clearance in the 4th that would have been a certain goal if McCarthy could mark the ball that day). He made a couple of mistakes but knowing how hard he works, I'd back him in to have already resolved those. What impressed me the most was his involvements were a catalyst for Freo that game. His 1st ever goal was the start of a 5 goal haul in the 1st, and he was a major reason Freo got back some momentum in the 4th.

Before that game I was thinking Switta was just a role playing pressure forward but came away thinking wow, if he can deliver that week in week out he could be a major reason for a lot more goals by Freo. Personally if I am choosing between a 31 year old who has underperformed in the vast majority of games the past three seasons, and a 22 year old who was a top 5 player on the ground in just his 2nd game, for a team in Freo's position (where it had the worst tackles inside 50 of all clubs last season) I know who'd I choose. Ballas was a great player for Freo in the past but he is far too inconsistent these days. Consistency should always be the non-negotiable when selecting a 30+ year old imo.
Not only that, he’s finishing top 5 in the 2km time trials.
 

theGav56

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Consistency should always be the non-negotiable when selecting a 30+ year old imo.
That is a pretty fair comment. They are there for production and leadership, especially with a young emerging list.

The club has 2 mature, specialist small forwards in Ballantyne and Matera, as well as a few up and coming players. They may be the "incumbents" but they are flawed for different reasons. Switkowski and Schultz are also specialist small forwards, and are both mature enough in their development to put immediate pressure on for selection without the need for fast-tracking. Giro or Crowden may see openings too.

I am confident about the club's commitment to transition the list. Schultz seems unlikely to have been on the radar of many clubs, and that indicates a clear vision in terms of managing our list; we need small forwards. Knocking an incumbent out of the best 22 is a really good stepping stone in a players development.

In this transition phase we have seen some attitude issues bubble away at the club, with reports about McCarthy, Cox, Matera, Bennell and Kersten rumoured to have lacked the commitment required. The best strategy for addressing that is depth in position for those players. The club has gone out and got that. Player for player, the trade and draft period has seen us build depth in the areas we have reportedly had problems.
 

FreoRicci

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What about a forward line of
McCarthy, Tabs, Matera
Walters, Hogan, Lobb (ruck/forward)

McCarthy as fourth forward would be a gun. But Logue there as 4th would be interesting too. Logue can ply that swing man role aka Harry Taylor
 

theGav56

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FB: Ryan. Hamling. Logue.
HB: Wilson. Pearce. Cerra.
C: B. Hill. Blakely. Langdon.
HF: Walters. Hogan. Bennell.
FF: Lobb. Tabs. Colyer.
R: Sandilands. Fyfe. Mundy.
I: Brayshaw. Valente. Duman.
Conca.


Thoughts everyone ?
Well, I really like that group of players. SHill for sure should be in there, and I would have Banfield before Valente. Fyfe, Mundy and Blakeley would be a beast of a midfield, but I would love to mix some pace into it with either SHill or Bewley. I realise Hill may not be available round 1.

Your bench is also a great bunch, but very one paced.

Pretty dangerous forward line, especially compared to any we have put out recently. It is the right kind of mix imo. That's enough talls given Fyfe and Mundy go forward.
 
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