Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Red Bull]

They were my Alan Bond. Only get one every lifetime.

Was a hoot.

When this chap appears in court at your side you are probably pushing s**t up hill re credibility.
Good days indeed ...

 

[thylacine60]

that a spare kidney?

 

[RedFury]

Plain-Flavoured Productions Presents The Vanilla Experience

One of the reasons TerryWallet, Arr0w and myself were interested in draft prospects such as Smith, Jones and RCD was for kids who could find contested ball, but also had genuine pace. It wasn't that we didn't think Mr Vanilla didn't have pace, but rather was it enough to make a difference to a somewhat one-paced midfield containing Cripps, Kennedy & Setterfield??? Even those of you who never doubted for a second that he did might even be just a little bit surprised by what you're about to see.

View attachment 601407

Walsh snaps up the loose ball and puts in a nice sidestep to get Dow slightly off balance.

View attachment 601410

Dow manages to stay upright and both players plant their feet and begin to accelerate.

View attachment 601411

Remember those gears I was telling you about in the Training Thread. Walsh engages jet propulsion, while Dow turns on the afterburners in pursuit.

View attachment 601413

Jet propulsion starts to look more efficient than afterburners as the Vanilla one begins to edge away.

View attachment 601415

Walsh starts to believe he's got Dow under control and begins to scan downfield for options.

View attachment 601416

The fuel in Dow's afterburners is exhausted and just to rub salt into the wound Walsh takes a bounce while he continues to assert his authority.

View attachment 601422

Dow can't make any impression on the gap even when Walsh is occupied taking a bounce which doesn't seem to slow him down at all.

View attachment 601423

If you were to ask me what stands out about Walsh in this passage is his balance. It really is superb.

View attachment 601424

Walsh changes direction to go around Goddard (right) while Dow looks a little bewildered in the background.

View attachment 601425

Walsh begins to eye off Fisher down the ground while Dow still continues loosing ground.

So you're saying that Dow is slower than Vanilla and not going to make it .. did I get that right

 

[jooce8891]

Agree! Im a big big fan of kennedy and i knew id miss someone. I think Kennedy will be a top 30 mid in the league over the next few years. I actually see him running forward a lot and creating confusion. Kid played some of his junior days up forward and has an exceptional mark on him.

I get the feeling although he will play majority midfield, the coaching staff will be licking their lips at the opportunity for him to go forward from time to time.

Kid will be a gun!

Hope Cuningham gets his body right too. Could be a star

hmm.. has got me thinking, could he turn into a dusty role by any chance you think?

 

[thylacine60]

more likely to turn into a salad roll - kennedy will be a player but that other clown is a consistent match winner...........

 

[Jimmae]

Plain-Flavoured Productions Presents The Vanilla Experience

One of the reasons TerryWallet, Arr0w and myself were interested in draft prospects such as Smith, Jones and RCD was for kids who could find contested ball, but also had genuine pace. It wasn't that we didn't think Mr Vanilla didn't have pace, but rather was it enough to make a difference to a somewhat one-paced midfield containing Cripps, Kennedy & Setterfield??? Even those of you who never doubted for a second that he did might even be just a little bit surprised by what you're about to see.

View attachment 601407

Walsh snaps up the loose ball and puts in a nice sidestep to get Dow slightly off balance.

View attachment 601410

Dow manages to stay upright and both players plant their feet and begin to accelerate.

View attachment 601411

Remember those gears I was telling you about in the Training Thread. Walsh engages jet propulsion, while Dow turns on the afterburners in pursuit.

View attachment 601413

Jet propulsion starts to look more efficient than afterburners as the Vanilla one begins to edge away.

View attachment 601415

Walsh starts to believe he's got Dow under control and begins to scan downfield for options.

View attachment 601416

The fuel in Dow's afterburners is exhausted and just to rub salt into the wound Walsh takes a bounce while he continues to assert his authority.

View attachment 601422

Dow can't make any impression on the gap even when Walsh is occupied taking a bounce which doesn't seem to slow him down at all.

View attachment 601423

If you were to ask me what stands out about Walsh in this passage is his balance. It really is superb.

View attachment 601424

Walsh changes direction to go around Goddard (right) while Dow looks a little bewildered in the background.

View attachment 601425

Walsh begins to eye off Fisher down the ground while Dow still continues loosing ground.

Timely reminder that 1st year players do a reduced workload.

 

[Funk]

If one of McKay, Curnow or McGovern was injured, Casboult could be selected as a replacement.

I'd personally prefer to bring in another smaller running type though.

Sometimes I feel we're too top heavy at times.

Re “top heavy”.

I think we’ve looked top heavy because Levi and Philips are so slow and fumble the ball.

Harry, Charlie amd MM are quick and good/clean below their knees.

I have good vibes about our 3 big musketeers.

 

[Funk]

Who’s Donseki?

Russian basketball player - next year’s Cat B rookie

 

[Sheephead]

Any news on who is front running to get Docs spot on the list? (Or the other spot). Still hold hope for Mitch Grigg myself. Big bull that runs straight ahead, rapier like left leg (why are lefties seemingly better kicks? Like left handed golfers have smoother swings) and loves a goal. Rather him as our State League multi B&F winner over Gibbons. Need someone with a point of difference.

 

[Laphroaig]

(why are lefties seemingly better kicks? Like left handed golfers have smoother swings)

I can answer the golfers part. It's because ignorant adult golfers love to fill kids' heads with "advice", and the worse the golfer in question is himself, the more he pushes his words of wisdom. Fortunately for the leftie kids, these idiots know so little that it makes their brain hurt trying to turn it around to left handed. So they leave the left handers alone.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

So you're saying that Dow is slower than Vanilla .. did I get that right

Photographic evidence X 20 versus Dual Drunk Emojis. OK, ya got me. I give up. Dual Drunk Emojis wins every time.

So you're saying that Dow is not going to make it .. did I get that right

I've made no such reference so that's entirely you call. However, since you've gone there, as someone who's watched these kids come up through the junior ranks, let me put a couple of things on the record. Kids such as Brayshaw, Cerra, Walsh, Smith, Rayner, Jones, Rankine, Valente, Stocker and Hately are a long way in front of Dow when it comes to clean ball-handling..........and most, if not all, are better and more consistent with their disposal by foot. Ultimately, these are the things that separate the A-Graders from the rest.

 

[HARKER]

One of the reasons TerryWallet, Arr0w and myself were interested in draft prospects such as Smith, Jones and RCD was for kids who could find contested ball, but also had genuine pace. It wasn't that we didn't think Mr Vanilla didn't have pace, but rather was it enough to make a difference to a somewhat one-paced midfield containing Cripps, Kennedy & Setterfield??? Even those of you who never doubted for a second that he did might even be just a little bit surprised by what you're about to see.

Guess you had little choice but to come to submit to your better sense eventually.

Dow isn't slow and neither are Cripps or Setterfield. They're taller so the feet don't look to be pumping like pistons, but they do get separation when required and that's quite a valuable trait as an inside mid.

Walsh is far from slow either but more valuable than speed lone is awareness and he has that in bucket-loads.
Maybe we can also put the brakes on the 'vanilla' thing also. I know it's meant to be self-deprecating, but the maybe Walsh and vanilla doesn't need to be used in the same sentence. Maybe

 

[Blue and Blue]

Lets just say that they are all going to be good with individual things that set each apart from the other.
Think of Ashman Marcou Buckley Sheldon. All different and all complementing each other. Its ridiculous some of the stuff that gets written here. So what if one is a bit quicker..or the other is a better sidestepper..or whatever. All this denegration and comparison is a waste of time when we remember its a team game requiring various attributes shared between 18 on the field at every moment.

 

[Soapy V]

Lets just say that they are all going to be good with individual things that set each apart from the other.
Think of Ashman Marcou Buckley Sheldon. All different and all complementing each other. Its ridiculous some of the stuff that gets written here. So what if one is a bit quicker..or the other is a better sidestepper..or whatever. All this denegration and comparison is a waste of time when we remember its a team game requiring various attributes shared between 18 on the field at every moment.

Exactly. It's the balance of skills that excite me as much as everything. We also have a group of players that are good in most skills.

The name that seems to get missed is SPS. Get fit (and he is) and watch out. If he starts winning his own ball or getting his hands on it 20 times a game watch out. His skills are elite and he tough. Will create so many opportunities. Fisher not far behind

Dow & Walsh aren't vanilla. They are damn good at everything and that makes us even better. Setterfield similar.

Then the bulls in Kennedy & Cripps who are more than that. Then there is Charlie who is training with the mids and looks in magnificent condition. With more forward options Charlie being able to have a 5 minute burst in the middle when needed is a rare genuine X factor

That's why I really like our midfield. Then there is Curnow Murphy Stocker O'Brien Lang Cuningham................................................


PS. I don't believe we are slow either. Not even close. There is a lot of leg speed there and depth also helps. The ability to use the ball well and hit targets is the most underrated aspect of speed.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The name that seems to get missed is SPS. Get fit (and he is) and watch out. If he starts winning his own ball or getting his hands on it 20 times a game watch out. His skills are elite. Will create so many opportunities.

I agree. The reason I called him potentially our modern day diesel is because he can in an instant slow the game down , think, then make the right decision. Which ultimately speeds the game up better than a lightning fast run and bouncer can do.

 

[Soapy V]

I agree. The reason I called him potentially our modern day diesel is because he can in an instant slow the game down , think, then make the right decision. Which ultimately speeds the game up better than a lightning fast run and bouncer can do.

Just want him to stay fit. He is training really well and looks better than he ever has. Focussed.

TSG any photo's?

 

[Blue and Blue]

He is training really well and looks better than he ever has. Focussed.

Really appreciate your man on the ground info ...

 

[RedFury]

Photographic evidence X 20 versus Dual Drunk Emojis. OK, ya got me. I give up. Dual Drunk Emojis wins every time.

I've made no such reference so that's entirely you call. However, since you've gone there, as someone who's watched these kids come up through the junior ranks, let me put a couple of things on the record. Kids such as Brayshaw, Cerra, Walsh, Smith, Rayner, Jones, Rankine, Valente, Stocker and Hately are a long way in front of Dow when it comes to clean ball-handling..........and most, if not all, are better and more consistent with their disposal by foot. Ultimately, these are the things that separate the A-Graders from the rest.

Hmm. You appear to have taken my comment far more seriously than it was intended. I would have thought the double drunk emoji gave the game away there. Maybe I'll go for winking smiley next time. Think Dow will be a gun fwiw.

Btw love all the awesome photos you're providing.

 

[murphster]

Re “top heavy”.

I think we’ve looked top heavy because Levi and Philips are so slow and fumble the ball.

Harry, Charlie amd MM are quick and good/clean below their knees.

I have good vibes about our 3 big musketeers.

McKay especially when he hits the gas is really quick for his size, a few times last year he really stepped on the gas and blew some players away.

 

[murphster]

I agree. The reason I called him potentially our modern day diesel is because he can in an instant slow the game down , think, then make the right decision. Which ultimately speeds the game up better than a lightning fast run and bouncer can do.

Another Shaun Burgoyne that’s what SPS is so clean by hand and especially by foot will just get better with age as well, a star of the future if he can learn to win more of the ball.

 

[therubbernub]

that a spare kidney?

You're always hungry

 

[therubbernub]

Lets just say that they are all going to be good with individual things that set each apart from the other.
Think of Ashman Marcou Buckley Sheldon. All different and all complementing each other. Its ridiculous some of the stuff that gets written here. So what if one is a bit quicker..or the other is a better sidestepper..or whatever. All this denegration and comparison is a waste of time when we remember its a team game requiring various attributes shared between 18 on the field at every moment.

Or the original fab four from brisbane. Akermanis, voss, black, lappin

 

[Robertio]

Another Shaun Burgoyne that’s what SPS is so clean by hand and especially by foot will just get better with age as well, a star of the future if he can learn to win more of the ball.

I think once the whole team wins more of the ball SPS and a few other young players will elevate their game to another level.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Timely reminder that 1st year players do a reduced workload.

Actually one of the things that stood out is that Russell has many of our players on individual programs, including our first year players. Unsurprisingly, O'Dwyer is on the lightest load and looked to be just about out on his feet by the end of the session. Young Finbar will be a pretty imposing unit once he fills out that frame in a couple of years. He completed some of the 200m dashes on the opposite side of the ground to where I was, but took no part in any match practice.



By the look of him, he may well still be growing so I think they'll be pretty mindful of how far they extend him. I asked him how he'd settled in and I quote, "I've absolutely loved every single minute of it".

Walsh is Finbar's polar opposite. Walsh completed all three repeat 200m sessions in Ed's group. You of all people know Ed gives, nor asks, for any quarter in these running sessions and he's only too happy to demonstrate who's boss cocky. Let me assure you Walsh was right up Ed's clacker during these repeat sprints and did beat him on a few occasions.



Not only did he do all his running drills with/against Ed, Walsh also took part in 100% of the match drills. In other words I think Russell (in consultation with Bolts) tailors a program with regards as to where he assesses their state of readiness. However, I'm sure their loads are monitored closely in the gym, especially after debilitating back injuries to McKay, Cripps & Willo over the last 3 preseasons.

I have to give young Cottrell some credit for someone straight out of TAC Cup and didn't start preseason with the rest of the group. Completed all the repeat 200m drills although he switched down from Ed's group to Cripp's group part way through. Smart move as the 2nd group didn't quite go at the same clip as what Ed's group did. Cottrell also completed most, if not all, of the match practice drills, which a testament to the kid's endurance levels.



His body is a long way from being ready for the buffeting it would receive at AFL level and his ball-handing when trying secure it can be poor at times (like Kerridge). His disposal by foot is OK though. If the goal is to replace Docherty then they'll want someone who's got the potential to AFL ready and be used as required, which is why I think they'll go with Gibbons.

Stocker is probably a better example of your managed 1st year program. Played about 50% of the match drills, did around 50% of the repeat 200m sessions and then did laps on his own at a reasonable clip.



There seems to be a definitive effort to get as many miles into his legs as possible with aim of building his endurance to the point where he's potentially a possible Round 1 inclusion. Even if they build his tank to those levels will his footy be up to the required standard??? Dunno.....and we simply won't know until mid-March. Nice clean hands though when securing the ball and very crisp by foot in traffic.

After seeing "Mudguts" McGovern in that horrific pool photo I really wondered how he'd shape up tbh. The simple reality is that he appears to be in the best shape I've ever seen him and looks particularly light and lean. Can only help him during lift-off I reckon (got that Tony Lynn 15).



This shot was taken after he hurt his back and he didn't seem to be in any real discomfort when walking around the boundary line and kicking the ball back into his hands. I suspect this injury is a little more commonplace than we suspect and it certainly knocked the wind out of his sails when he hit the deck. Had a content smile on his face when he told me, "I'm very happy I made the move and very much enjoying life as a Bluebagger".

The Boss performed most of the repeat 200m drills on the opposite side to where I was sitting and participated in about 50% of the match drills. When he wasn't on the field during match sims he was standing off to the side waiting to be subbed in. The load he was given to complete during this session wasn't as heavy as Walsh or Stocker, but certainly well advanced on what O'Dwyer was asked to complete. Spent a bit of time matched up on McKay and did well enough to hold his own.



He's a lot more advanced in terms of his physical condition than say De Koning was when he first walked through the door. Looked a fair bit quicker and more mobile during the match drills than what I remember of him from the U18 Nationals, where he acquired a well-timed injury towards the end of the first match iirc (cough, cough).

Williamson is someone who's on a similar "track" program to Stocker. Completed all the repeat 200m drills, played about 50% of the match sims, did a few laps and then did around another ten 200m runs under the guidance of a trainer. You'd expect someone of Williamson's physical cut to be around 2 pick handles across the shoulders, but he's only one, which would suggest that they are still being extremely cautious with managing his back issues.



HIs running program seems tailored to re-establishing his endurance levels. Told me he was glad to be back on his feet running around with his team mates again. Think we've missed his zip and aggression off HB. If there's one thing I really love about Willo is that he runs in straight lines, no matter who stands between him and the ball. Will be a welcome inclusion when fit, ready and able.

I think Soapy V mentioned that Fasolo was tracking a bit behind his team mates due to his injuries. Completed most of the repeat 200m drills with the younger players on the opposite side of the ground to where I was stationed and played much of the match sims.



To me he looked heavy (as opposed to overweight) and I'm sure they'll look to strip 5kg of bulk off him between now and March. Fasolo's agility and aerial ability are two of his best weapons, but he'll need to be much lighter on his feet for those to come to the fore. The other area they'll look to improve after Xmas is his running capacity, because even Goddard exposed him in this department so building Fasolo's endurance will no doubt be a priority.

Quite liked what I saw from Nic Newman. Granted it's only training intensity, but he always put himself in the right spots, look composed with the ball in hand and always looked to move the ball forwards rather than backwards and sideways all the time. Disposal off the preferred left foot was generally accurate and had reasonable penetration.



Is quite a strong runner and completed all his running drills in Ed's group and was never far away from the front. Also participated in all of the match sims. While his form in the JLT series will provide a better guide I'd be surprised if he doesn't start in Round 1.

Setterfield seems to be progressing well. Won't join in full training until after the Xmas break. Did a few laps on his own and then some one-on-one contest training with O'Dwyer. Yes he's still got some work to do, but he looks in reasonable shape for someone who hasn't played much footy over the last 3 years.



He was often watching the match sims as he was running around the boundary and I said to him, "You'll be out there with them soon enough Will". He then looked back at me and replied in a slightly impatient tone, "Awwww........can't wait. I'm ready now". I doubt they'll hold him back, but I don't think Russell will look to over-extend him either. Given his injury history I think they'll let Setterfield's body be their guide.

I didn't see any or Kreuzer, Marchbank or Charlie Curnow out there. It's not to say they weren't there, it's just that I didn't see them.

FWIW Jimmae, I don't think 1st year players have any real idea what they're in for when it comes to their first preseason. It's all new to them and they're trying to create an impression and earn respect from their peers. Second year players know exactly what they're in for and I think many of them find it a real grind to push their way through it, hence the 2nd year blues.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

Actually one of the things that stood out is that Russell has many of our players on individual programs, including our first year players. Unsurprisingly, O'Dwyer is on the lightest load and looked to be just about out on his feet by the end of the session. Young Finbar will be a pretty imposing unit once he fills out that frame in a couple of years. He completed some of the 200m dashes on the opposite side of the ground to where I was, but took no part in any match practice.

View attachment 601531

By the look of him, he may well still be growing so I think they'll be pretty mindful of how far they extend him. I asked him how he'd settled in and I quote, "I've absolutely loved every single minute of it".

Walsh is Finbar's polar opposite. Walsh completed all three repeat 200m sessions in Ed's group. You of all people know Ed gives, nor asks, for any quarter in these running sessions and he's only too happy to demonstrate who's boss cocky. Let me assure you Walsh was right up Ed's clacker during these repeat sprints and did beat him on a few occasions.

View attachment 601603

Not only did he do all his running drills with/against Ed, Walsh also took part in 100% of the match drills. In other words I think Russell (in consultation with Bolts) tailors a program with regards as to where he assesses their state of readiness. However, I'm sure their loads are monitored closely in the gym, especially after debilitating back injuries to McKay, Cripps & Willo over the last 3 preseasons.

I have to give young Cottrell some credit for someone straight out of TAC Cup and didn't start preseason with the rest of the group. Completed all the repeat 200m drills although he switched down from Ed's group to Cripp's group part way through. Smart move as the 2nd group didn't quite go at the same clip as what Ed's group did. Cottrell also completed most, if not all, of the match practice drills, which a testament to the kid's endurance levels.

View attachment 601536

His body is a long way from being ready for the buffeting it would receive at AFL level and his ball-handing when trying secure it can be poor at times (like Kerridge). His disposal by foot is OK though. If the goal is to replace Docherty then they'll want someone who's got the potential to AFL ready and be used as required, which is why I think they'll go with Gibbons.

Stocker is probably a better example of your managed 1st year program. Played about 50% of the match drills, did around 50% of the repeat 200m sessions and then did laps on his own at a reasonable clip.

View attachment 601544

There seems to be a definitive effort to get as many miles into his legs as possible with aim of building his endurance to the point where he's potentially a possible Round 1 inclusion. Even if they build his tank to those levels will his footy be up to the required standard??? Dunno.....and we simply won't know until mid-March. Nice clean hands though when securing the ball and very crisp by foot in traffic.

After seeing "Mudguts" McGovern in that horrific pool photo I really wondered how he'd shape up tbh. The simple reality is that he appears to be in the best shape I've ever seen him and looks particularly light and lean. Can only help him during lift-off I reckon (got that Tony Lynn 15).

View attachment 601554

This shot was taken after he hurt his back and he didn't seem to be in any real discomfort when walking around the boundary line and kicking the ball back into his hands. I suspect this injury is a little more commonplace than we suspect and it certainly knocked the wind out of his sails when he hit the deck. Had a content smile on his face when he told me, "I'm very happy I made the move and very much enjoying life as a Bluebagger".

The Boss performed most of the repeat 200m drills on the opposite side to where I was sitting and participated in about 50% of the match drills. When he wasn't on the field during match sims he was standing off to the side waiting to be subbed in. The load he was given to complete during this session wasn't as heavy as Walsh or Stocker, but certainly well advanced on what O'Dwyer was asked to complete. Spent a bit of time matched up on McKay and did well enough to hold his own.

View attachment 601557

He's a lot more advanced in terms of his physical condition than say De Koning was when he first walked through the door. Looked a fair bit quicker and more mobile during the match drills than what I remember of him from the U18 Nationals, where he acquired a well-timed injury towards the end of the first match iirc (cough, cough).

Williamson is someone who's on a similar "track" program to Stocker. Completed all the repeat 200m drills, played about 50% of the match sims, did a few laps and then did around another ten 200m runs under the guidance of a trainer. You'd expect someone of Williamson's physical cut to be around 2 pick handles across the shoulders, but he's only one, which would suggest that they are still being extremely cautious with managing his back issues.

View attachment 601577

HIs running program seems tailored to re-establishing his endurance levels. Told me he was glad to be back on his feet running around with his team mates again. Think we've missed his zip and aggression off HB. If there's one thing I really love about Willo is that he runs in straight lines, no matter who stands between him and the ball. Will be a welcome inclusion when fit, ready and able.

I think Soapy V mentioned that Fasolo was tracking a bit behind his team mates due to his injuries. Completed most of the repeat 200m drills with the younger players on the opposite side of the ground to where I was stationed and played much of the match sims.

View attachment 601568

To me he looked heavy (as opposed to overweight) and I'm sure they'll look to strip 5kg of bulk off him between now and March. Fasolo's agility and aerial ability are two of his best weapons, but he'll need to be much lighter on his feet for those to come to the fore. The other area they'll look to improve after Xmas is his running capacity, because even Goddard exposed him in this department so building Fasolo's endurance will no doubt be a priority.

Quite liked what I saw from Nic Newman. Granted it's only training intensity, but he always put himself in the right spots, look composed with the ball in hand and always looked to move the ball forwards rather than backwards and sideways all the time. Disposal off the preferred left foot was generally accurate and had reasonable penetration.

View attachment 601597

Is quite a strong runner and completed all his running drills in Ed's group and was never far away from the front. Also participated in all of the match sims. While his form in the JLT series will provide a better guide I'd be surprised if he doesn't start in Round 1.

Setterfield seems to be progressing well. Won't join in full training until after the Xmas break. Did a few laps on his own and then some one-on-one contest training with O'Dwyer. Yes he's still got some work to do, but he looks in reasonable shape for someone who hasn't played much footy over the last 3 years.

View attachment 601606

He was often watching the match sims as he was running around the boundary and I said to him, "You'll be out there with them soon enough Will". He then looked back at me and replied in a slightly impatient tone, "Awwww........can't wait. I'm ready now". I doubt they'll hold him back, but I don't think Russell will look to over-extend him either. Given his injury history I think they'll let Setterfield's body be their guide.

I didn't see any or Kreuzer, Marchbank or Charlie Curnow out there. It's to say they weren't there, it's just that I didn't see them.

FWIW Jimmae, I don't think 1st year players have any real idea what they're in for when it comes to their first preseason. It's all new to them and they're trying to create an impression and earn respect from their peers. Second year players know exactly what they're in for and I think many of them find it a real grind to push their way through it, hence the 2nd year blues.

Very thorough analysis TheSmokingGun.

Similar to what people should expect to see in the What I Reckon thread as the season progresses.