2023 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[cryptor]

Pick 56
Rookie
Pick 67
Trade
Pick 76
Trade

Can Hawthorn's leadership group succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

 

[Brant]

Can Hawthorn's leadership group succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

Middle of the road... at best...

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I’ve no doubt m the likes of Day, Ward, DGB etc will be a pretty amazing leadership group in 3-5 years.

Add in cmac as well

 

[KermitJagger]

Compared to what?
Pretty thin list tbh, and I really like them all as players.

Can you name the captains for every other team in the AFL without intentionally looking them up? How many could you get?

Honestly this is just the nature of captaincy now, the likes of Hodge, Selwood and Voss just aren't there any longer. Captains are less and less important as the emphasis is on everyone to lead.

This is as good a list as any.

 

[matey]

With these gold nugget picks in our leadership group, including others in Newk, Dimma, CJ, Blanck etc and some of the quality youngsters we have picked up recently has given me plenty of optimism and positive vibes to hone in on moving forward. The entire list and competition for spots is improving at a rapid pace. Bit too much negativity going on around individuals in DGB …… and even Scrimmers which is mind boggling in other posts lately. I don’t think our success will depend on whether DGB makes it or not as an AFL player. We got some high picks wrong in Dowler, Thorpe and probably Ellis but then had a dynasty soon after. You can’t and will never get every high draft pick right. I like to think about the big picture positives and it’s coming along nicely for the Hawks I feel ……… and DGB and Scrimmers could still become very good AFL players. I think Scrimmers is one already personally.

 

[Topiary]

Yeah not the most inspiring list ATM, but we're unlikely to see the likes of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Burgoyne again.

Though I think Moore in particular will prove to be a great leader. Moore and Lewis are both relatively young leaders as well.

We also have a group of even younger guys coming through that are all showing leadership traits - Ward in particular (expect him to move into the leadership group at some stage) and Finn are leading the way.

Well if we accept the first paragraph we won’t see a premiership again. We have to aim for an elite balance to the List.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Middle of the road... at best...

Unfortunately this wasn't a laughing matter

 

[The Chad and I]

Can you name the captains for every other team in the AFL without intentionally looking them up? How many could you get?

Honestly this is just the nature of captaincy now, the likes of Hodge, Selwood and Voss just aren't there any longer. Captains are less and less important as the emphasis is on everyone to lead.

This is as good a list as any.

mate im barely holding onto my interest in Hawthorn tbh.
I feel the same kind of let down after the golden era of the Australian cricket team came to and end.
It just wasn't the same for me and I haven't followed the cricket ever since.

This group of players - I like quite a few of them, but not like I did the players of our three-peat era, and I felt that way about them before they started winning premierships.

They just seem like a homogeneous group of lads.
I much prefer a bunch of misfit trouble makers.

So no, i can't name any of the other captains.
I hear they have high hopes for Dyson Heppell over at Essendon.

 

[Dewnior]

Leadership Group, voted by players and coaches

James Sicily - Captain
Luke Breust - VC
Dylan Moore - VC
Jarman Impey
Mitch Lewis
Sam Frost

Great bunch of guys, I think we're in good hands with these guys.

Can Hawthorn's leadership group succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

Middle of the road... at best...

D+

 

[Kanga Commando]

Can Hawthorn's leadership group succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

IIRC we have seven first rounders on our list now and i think only 1 traded in ( Wingard )… not sure if that’s correct…

It’s still an overrated concept though imho

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Well if we accept the first paragraph we won’t see a premiership again. We have to aim for an elite balance to the List.

mate im barely holding onto my interest in Hawthorn tbh.
I feel the same kind of let down after the golden era of the Australian cricket team came to and end.
It just wasn't the same for me and I haven't followed the cricket ever since.

This group of players - I like quite a few of them, but not like I did the players of our three-peat era, and I felt that way about them before they started winning premierships.

They just seem like a homogeneous group of lads.
I much prefer a bunch of misfit trouble makers.

So no, i can't name any of the other captains.
I hear they have high hopes for Dyson Heppell over at Essendon.

the AFL has evolved significantly since we won in 2013. lots of clubs are looking at flat leadership structures and the reliance on one "alpha" to inspire the team to go to war is pretty outdated. on-field leadership is only one aspect of it too – training standards, social leadership to help chemistry, the coach's leadership etc. all play a massive part

it's a much more nuanced field than a list of "thin" names on paper. im not really sure what that even means? how do you really know how good a leader is at leading – do you know these guys personally? are you basing it on how much they yell at their teammates? leading by example? how many friends they have in the club?

i mean Sydney's group is *ing Rampe, Buddy, Papley, Mills and Cunningham. You can't seriously look at that list and think "yeah, these blokes are the best leaders the AFL has to offer" and yet, they made a grand final last year

it's not something we can accurately adjudicate so passing negative judgments based on some biased, uninformed pre-conception seems pointless to me. all we can really do is base our opinions on performance, so we should wait and see how it goes.

and there's nothing wrong with you losing interest in the club, s**t happens whatever. but personally, i strongly disagree with these blokes being a homogenous group of players. this is the most excited I've been about our list since 2016. watching a group of talented young players grow together and start to gel is, IMO, just as fun as following a good team. and it's more rewarding too when they start winning more often than not because you've put in the effort during the hard yards to form that attachment

 

[KermitJagger]

mate im barely holding onto my interest in Hawthorn tbh.
I feel the same kind of let down after the golden era of the Australian cricket team came to and end.
It just wasn't the same for me and I haven't followed the cricket ever since.

This group of players - I like quite a few of them, but not like I did the players of our three-peat era, and I felt that way about them before they started winning premierships.

They just seem like a homogeneous group of lads.
I much prefer a bunch of misfit trouble makers.

So no, i can't name any of the other captains.
I hear they have high hopes for Dyson Heppell over at Essendon.

Well there's the point proven. The list of leaders is quite thin? Certainly not compared to every other list in the league, or you'd be able to name another captain or leadership group. Compared to a leadership group that won 4 flags from 2008 - 2015? Maybe, but which leadership group wouldn't be thin compared to that.

It's clear from this post you've lost interest in not just the Hawks but footy as a whole, so please don't use that to tarnish a good young group of players.

 

[Sixpence]

IIRC we have seven first rounders on our list now and i think only 1 traded in ( Wingard )… not sure if that’s correct…

It’s still an overrated concept though imho

Scrimshaw was a traded in first rounder.

 

[HedgeFund]

Scrimshaw was a traded in first rounder.

Ditto Stephens, and FWIW Impey was taken first in the 2nd Rd (pick #21).

Though as many of us know, the “elite end of the draft” doesn’t always become the elite of the competition.

You make do with who you get into your club and back your culture and development process to turn them into elite AFL players.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I wonder with Ginnivan’s toilet troubles whether he becomes trade fodder at the end of the year.

Some BF posters in the past have expressed their support for trading for him because he was a hawk supporter growing up. Is he now too damaged to bother.

Oh boy

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeah, nah… we’re not doing trade hypotheticals in here.

Might be time to shut this one up until we get closer to the mid season draft.

 

[bigmaxi]

Yeah, nah… we’re not doing trade hypotheticals in here.

Might be time to shut this one up until we get closer to the mid season draft.

arrrggghhh the dreaded mid season draft..... oh we've won the last few....bring it on !!!!!!

 

[Tomohawks]

Scrimshaw was a traded in first rounder.

Along with Stephens

 

[Since 2001]

Gee I really hope we are more patient than that with a young tall defender.

We are giving him a footballing education out of his comfort zone. He needs to learn how to defend one on one for when we are challenging in a few years. We know he can intercept mark.

Plus he has been playing in a side with the leagues worst midfield. It only gets better for DGB from here...or maybe 2024 if we have a season of few wins.

I agree. I also wouldn't like to see him leave. I dont think he will. But i can see this year being a year you want to see some improvement in the one-on-ones and getting a bit bigger frame.

If he isnt holding down a spot in our best 22 by the end of the year, it might also make him consider his options as i believe he is only contacted til 2024?

 

[The Chad and I]

Well there's the point proven. The list of leaders is quite thin? Certainly not compared to every other list in the league, or you'd be able to name another captain or leadership group. Compared to a leadership group that won 4 flags from 2008 - 2015? Maybe, but which leadership group wouldn't be thin compared to that.

It's clear from this post you've lost interest in not just the Hawks but footy as a whole, so please don't use that to tarnish a good young group of players.

it's hardly tarnishing them to have a higher standard of expectations for the leaders of the club.
I'm not talking about Mitchell, Hodge, Bugoyne levels of leadership either.
This crop isn't even up to the standard of our second tier leaders from the premiership era.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

it's hardly tarnishing them to have a higher standard of expectations for the leaders of the club.
I'm not talking about Mitchell, Hodge, Bugoyne levels of leadership either.
This crop isn't even up to the standard of our second tier leaders from the premiership era.

How would we know?

 

[The Chad and I]

How would we know?

Numbers of times they point at teammates per match.
Luke Hodge greatest captain ever = highest PAT per match I have ever seen.

 

[peetoo]

Not even played a match yet

 

[Delecate Des]

Yep, we are really at the bottom leadership wise........

Oh wait, how about these 2 inspiring leaders???

 

[SpanishBrowne]

it's hardly tarnishing them to have a higher standard of expectations for the leaders of the club.
I'm not talking about Mitchell, Hodge, Bugoyne levels of leadership either.
This crop isn't even up to the standard of our second tier leaders from the premiership era.