Roast A reflection of where Pie fans think their club is really at. It's not positive.

[No SPIN]

The successful ones

A glib answer - the only response when the question is to difficult

 

[Civilest]

A glib answer - the only response when the question is to difficult

Fair criticism. Collingwood being Collingwood we are always under the x10 magnifying lens. We can’t get away with what other clubs can sweep under the carpet

 

[jackcass]

Some Members and supporters are more demanding than others. Some are more accepting of the status quo than others. The point that’s being missed perhaps is that it’s in the clubs long term interests to have a plan and honestly convey that to the masses. it mightn’t be in the long term interests of individuals in the FD or board , but therein lies the problem. Who is acting as custodian of THE CLUBs best interests?

It's got nothing to do with being accepting of the status quo. The club has zero obligation to articulate to the masses anything beyond those reports that are made publicly available. Everything else is purely good will on their behalf. Undertaking day to day activity under public and media scrutiny is in nobody's best interests.

 

[jackcass]

The successful ones

Bullshit.

 

[No SPIN]

It's got nothing to do with being accepting of the status quo. The club has zero obligation to articulate to the masses anything beyond those reports that are made publicly available. Everything else is purely good will on their behalf. Undertaking day to day activity under public and media scrutiny is in nobody's best interests.

Agree - and were we lagging other clubs in transparency, then I could understand the criticisms, but that definitely is not the case.

 

[Markfs]

Some Members and supporters are more demanding than others. Some are more accepting of the status quo than others. The point that’s being missed perhaps is that it’s in the clubs long term interests to have a plan and honestly convey that to the masses. it mightn’t be in the long term interests of individuals in the FD or board , but therein lies the problem. Who is acting as custodian of THE CLUBs best interests?

I'm always hearing about this plan....but I never hear any suggestions to what the plan is. 76 gave me a response a week or so ago that went to peripheral stuff about women's footy and other such things. In fact, there were a few suggestions that football club boards should be concerned with, but nothing that went directly at winning a premiership because of one simple fact.

Boards don't make plans to win premierships, they put the people in place who make the plans to win premierships.

The fact is all this talk about plans at corporate is just nonsense, and if football departments are giving out detailed plans on recruiting and trading, then I would be shooting the footy manager at dawn.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm always hearing about this plan....but I never hear any suggestions to what the plan is. 76 gave me a response a week or so ago that went to peripheral stuff about women's footy and other such things. In fact, there were a few suggestions that football club boards should be concerned with, but nothing that went directly at winning a premiership because of one simple fact.

Boards don't make plans to win premierships, they put the people in place who make the plans to win premierships.

You did miss one piece of board relevance detail that I raised ...

... and that is organisational culture and values. Is the club going to be successful (winning premierships) by:

- Being the most innovative?
- Being the hardest working?
- Being ‘Side-by-side’ (and if so, defining what that specifically means?)
- Or? Or? Or?

... and putting the systems in place to support all that.

The board will also define our risk profile. Will we have a conservative profile (eg: hire proven people) or risky profile (eg: hire crazy brave people). IMO this is an important issue and one that has been largely neglected - surely this will be a point of difference between Korda (I defy anybody to think of a more conservative profession than administrators) and Eddie “Let’s pay two first round draft picks for Beams” McGuire.

 

[Markfs]

You did miss one piece of board relevance detail that I raised ...

... and that is organisational culture and values. Is the club going to be successful (winning premierships) by:

- Being the most innovative?
- Being the hardest working?
- Being ‘Side-by-side’ (and if so, defining what that specifically means?)
- Or? Or? Or?

... and putting the systems in place to support all that.

The board will also define our risk profile. Will we have a conservative profile (eg: hire proven people) or risky profile (eg: hire crazy brave people). IMO this is an important issue and one that has been largely neglected - surely this will be a point of difference between Korda (I defy anybody to think of a more conservative profession than administrators) and Eddie “Let’s pay two first round draft picks for Beams” McGuire.

Actually I think this is something that needs to be worked out with the footy dept.

As an example, I am not a great believer in burning future draft picks on trying to pump up current draft picks which have been decimated by previous use of future draft picks. I also wouldnt trade for high profile draft picks that require more than a first rounder. So I'm in the conservative brigade. I think the admin side need to support this. On the other hand, if Wright and the footy dept want to continue with the grab at any resources strategy, then the admin side need to support that too.

However, i wouldnt like seeing the board tell the footy side to be conservative or risky. I still think the footy dept should define the risk on the footy side.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well it's not going well is it. Just reading the Pendles thread and there seems to be a minority that will be 'done' with the club if Pendles leaves. That's probably a little dramatic, however the fact is we do have fickle fans that hold that view, they exist pure and simple.

Another fuse to the ongoing implosion, if the club does not recover over the next couple of years it could lose its last bit of relevance, we could see the fan base slide. It's the last thing it has, history won't hold it up forever.

I'm sure a lot of you well know about the $1 membership offer, it stinks of desperation.

I'm seriously concerned this once great club is at a tipping point of sliding into complete mediocrity, if and when the fan base falls away there'll be nothing but long gone history that it can boast about.

'Never waste a crisis' this has never been more apt than right now in relevance to where our club is at. It looks like the last time opportunity to regain respect and reverence from the competition - yes that will take some years, and the next two or three are crucial. If there is not a big bright shining light of hope at the top of this hole in that time then it looks the club will never be great again.

 

[NMBB]

Well it's not going well is it. Just reading the Pendles thread and there seems to be a minority that will be 'done' with the club if Pendles leaves. That's probably a little dramatic, however the fact is we do have fickle fans that hold that view, they exist pure and simple.

Another fuse to the ongoing implosion, if the club does not recover over the next couple of years it could lose its last bit of relevance, we could see the fan base slide. It's the last thing it has, history won't hold it up forever.

I'm sure a lot of you well know about the $1 membership offer, it stinks of desperation.

I'm seriously concerned this once great club is at a tipping point of sliding into complete mediocrity, if and when the fan base falls away there'll be nothing but long gone history that it can boast about.

'Never waste a crisis' this has never been more apt than right now in relevance to where our club is at. It looks like the last time opportunity to regain respect and reverence from the competition - yes that will take some years, and the next two or three are crucial. If there is not a big bright shining light of hope at the top of this hole in that time then it looks the club will never be great again.

We have bullsh*tted ourselves about our relevance and significance for way too long

 

[Spuddd]

Am I happy, no.

Am I worried, not yet.

Its one year, we're resetting - lets see how we move on from here.

Sydney bottomed out after playing in grand finals, so did Freo, Hawthorn & St Kilda and its looking likely that West Coast and Richmond arent too far behind. Geelong have been the only main stay in the past 15 years. In fact, in that time we have yo-yo'ed between peaks and troughs and whilst we dont have the flags to prove it, we'd be close to one of the more successful teams of the past 20 years.

I would say we were in a worse position 2015-2017, we were an absolte rabble off field, yet we had 'stability'.

I think moving Buckley and Eddie on were the right calls to make, we need to be looking at the next 10 years and what that means - which I think we are doing.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have bullsh*tted ourselves about our relevance and significance for way too long

Yeah like 6 decades, that'd be ok if the majority of that wasn't self inflicted.

Still I hold hope the alarm bells are ringing and the club operators are like 'fk! we've gotta get things right here less the natives leave us forever', the current implosion could really be the blessing in disguise.

At no point in the clubs history has there been turmoil upon turmoil like this last year, could be the wake up call the club needs. I think it will be.

 

[NMBB]

Yeah like 6 decades, that'd be ok if the majority of that wasn't self inflicted.

Still I hold hope the alarm bells are ringing and the club operators are like 'fk! we've gotta get things right here less the natives leave us forever', the current implosion could really be the blessing in disguise.

At no point in the clubs history has there been turmoil upon turmoil like this last year, could be the wake up call the club needs. I think it will be.

Here's hoping..... (PS - McGuire was one of the leading bullsh*tters)

 

[Countrypie]

Am I happy, no.

Am I worried, not yet.

Its one year, we're resetting - lets see how we move on from here.

Sydney bottomed out after playing in grand finals, so did Freo, Hawthorn & St Kilda and its looking likely that West Coast and Richmond arent too far behind. Geelong have been the only main stay in the past 15 years. In fact, in that time we have yo-yo'ed between peaks and troughs and whilst we dont have the flags to prove it, we'd be close to one of the more successful teams of the past 20 years.

I would say we were in a worse position 2015-2017, we were an absolte rabble off field, yet we had 'stability'.

I think moving Buckley and Eddie on were the right calls to make, we need to be looking at the next 10 years and what that means - which I think we are doing.

This time - the next 2-3 years is really important. I think realistically from an on field point of view - the window slammed shut last year. We could have held on, kicked the can down the road for another year or two but the sooner we bit the bullet - the better we were going to be in the long run. The fallout was nasty and did a lot harm, but it was there, swimming beneath the surface waiting to burst in a smelly shower of toxic waste.
From an off field point of view , its been a shambles for some time. Probably since 2011 if we're going to be honest. By the time we'd stopped preening and strutting, other teams had gone past us in an administrative sense and we didn't seem to care. It's a wonder that we ever had a few minutes of on field sunshine in 2018/2019 and I think in retrospect the on field performance n those years papered over some serious issues re governance and management.
I don't think we'll sputter into irrelevance, but we have to start making good decisions off field
I know there's a lot of people who aren't happy with the board, but I've liked the way that they've behaved since Korda took over.
We've stopped making big statements, we've let people do their jobs and we've started to resemble a properly functioning club. I've appreciated the lack of leaks and the appearance of due process that has followed on from the search for a new coach. I think we have our head in the game.
I'm not sure that the Browne camp is going to offer anything more. It feels and smells like the New Magpies and that was disastrous.
If Browne were to come out with a vision and a plan then maybe I'd change my mind, but what we have right now is a bloke standing on the side, with a lot of rich mates and powerful media connections (headed by Damian Barrett) who would like to make Collingwood his plaything. We've been there. We know how it ends.
I think we've made the first tentative steps towards renewal.
From a playing perspective the next 12 months will probably be rough. It ain't the end of the world if we're building towards something. I'm hopeful that the appointment of the right coach will start that process. I trust Graham Wright and his committee to make the best decision for the Collingwood Football Club.
Others will hold different views.
That's cool.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Well it's not going well is it. Just reading the Pendles thread and there seems to be a minority that will be 'done' with the club if Pendles leaves. That's probably a little dramatic, however the fact is we do have fickle fans that hold that view, they exist pure and simple.

Another fuse to the ongoing implosion, if the club does not recover over the next couple of years it could lose its last bit of relevance, we could see the fan base slide. It's the last thing it has, history won't hold it up forever.

I'm sure a lot of you well know about the $1 membership offer, it stinks of desperation.

I'm seriously concerned this once great club is at a tipping point of sliding into complete mediocrity, if and when the fan base falls away there'll be nothing but long gone history that it can boast about.

'Never waste a crisis' this has never been more apt than right now in relevance to where our club is at. It looks like the last time opportunity to regain respect and reverence from the competition - yes that will take some years, and the next two or three are crucial. If there is not a big bright shining light of hope at the top of this hole in that time then it looks the club will never be great again.

Our club was in a far far worse position in 2009 (although it was not widely known at the time)

Port Adelaide was a basket case of a club circa 2011 / 2012. There was talk of them folding. They’ve turned it around in a big way.

We’ll be alright. Collingwood is always relevant.

 

[left at home]

Well the putrid year is finally done, but l think there some reasons to look forward too, as l don’t think the list is too bad of a shape.
Holes in it for sure, but fixable in time.
Next year playing wise we could be in the same spot on the ladder, but does not mean we are playing bad footy, or with the new coach l can see us contending for the eight.
The club handled bucks leaving better than than l thought they would and with some sensitivity.
No leaks, hooray, so far the the coach search process is good, by taking their time and picking the right candidates to interview, as no Ross the boss Lyon, and yes Voss got interviewed so internally in the afl world he is on the right path.
No board is going to get it 100% right, but with all the upheavals it’s doing ok so far.
Who ever the coach is, the supporting cast is just as important, so get that right and it will not be long at the bottom

 

[Markfs]

I know there's a lot of people who aren't happy with the board, but I've liked the way that they've behaved since Korda took over.
We've stopped making big statements, we've let people do their jobs and we've started to resemble a properly functioning club. I've appreciated the lack of leaks and the appearance of due process that has followed on from the search for a new coach. I think we have our head in the game.
I'm not sure that the Browne camp is going to offer anything more. It feels and smells like the New Magpies and that was disastrous.
If Browne were to come out with a vision and a plan then maybe I'd change my mind, but what we have right now is a bloke standing on the side, with a lot of rich mates and powerful media connections (headed by Damian Barrett) who would like to make Collingwood his plaything. We've been there. We know how it ends.

You gotta have two to tango... and the long term Pie administrators preening about being the biggest club have had an audience of doting fans who have loved every word and parroted back all this crap about being big and important. An ego fest on both sides.

There has been change. The decentralisation of decision-making is obvious - even to someone 3000k away. Licuria's involvement. Wright's involvement. Holgate involvement in finding directors. It fascinates and depresses me that people were bemoaning the lack of Korda presence at Buckley's resignation and all the other events. The lack of eddiespeak in general. In contrast, I was thinking thank bloody god we dont have to put up with a lot of hot air from our famed ex-president. And yet there are thousands who would love him back. They miss him stroking their egos as fellow pie supporters.

We wont change. It hasn't happened in my lifetime. The isolated premierships have resulted in a festival of back-slapping that has lasted for years and have completely derailed the club at times. Our fixation on past traditions has often restricted our ability to make innovative decisions to recruit players in the past, and our knee-jerk over-reaction to past mistakes resulted in the recent mess.

In attacking our most recent board appointment, I saw the irony in the fact that a key criteria of a successful board member may actually be that he or she isn't a magpie fan who is tied to the loser mentality that we have developed in the last 70 years.

Let's map it out in simple terms. I would presume the single most important thing for the club is to win a premiership. You would assume that all magpie fans have that aim. And yet we have two groups who are going to bang away at each other in the coming months. How do people rationalise that? How do they integrate that fact with the "side by side" marketing that we have been fed for the last decade? Personally, I dont have any answers and i'm not that fussed anymore.

 

[Gone Critical]

Where are we?

Board. State of flux, Not sure Browne has obvious benefits that have been areticulated so for stability I would prefer to see what Korda can do over next 12 months. Not likely to be much joy in that time so keeps the board stable with their heads down bums up is best

Coach. McRae sounds ok. Come in with development on the agenda and a brief that the board and footy dept understands we need time and steady progress. Give whoever is the coach a chance to get us moving.

List. In trouble. OK kids and an imbalance thats very wide. The post Moore/De Goey/Maynard group have very little chance of seeing much success and even those 3 will be wondering. The void below them is deep. Biggest need almost is not to turn into Ess/Carl and languish for decades. I havent go enough time left for that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

You gotta have two to tango... and the long term Pie administrators preening about being the biggest club have had an audience of doting fans who have loved every word and parroted back all this crap about being big and important. An ego fest on both sides.

There has been change. The decentralisation of decision-making is obvious - even to someone 3000k away. Licuria's involvement. Wright's involvement. Holgate involvement in finding directors. It fascinates and depresses me that people were bemoaning the lack of Korda presence at Buckley's resignation and all the other events. The lack of eddiespeak in general. In contrast, I was thinking thank bloody god we dont have to put up with a lot of hot air from our famed ex-president. And yet there are thousands who would love him back. They miss him stroking their egos as fellow pie supporters.

We wont change. It hasn't happened in my lifetime. The isolated premierships have resulted in a festival of back-slapping that has lasted for years and have completely derailed the club at times. Our fixation on past traditions has often restricted our ability to make innovative decisions to recruit players in the past, and our knee-jerk over-reaction to past mistakes resulted in the recent mess.

In attacking our most recent board appointment, I saw the irony in the fact that a key criteria of a successful board member may actually be that he or she isn't a magpie fan who is tied to the loser mentality that we have developed in the last 70 years.

Hear hear to all of that

Let's map it out in simple terms. I would presume the single most important thing for the club is to win a premiership. You would assume that all magpie fans have that aim. And yet we have two groups who are going to bang away at each other in the coming months. How do people rationalise that? How do they integrate that fact with the "side by side" marketing that we have been fed for the last decade? Personally, I dont have any answers and i'm not that fussed anymore.

I’ve always said that the core purpose of the Collingwood Football Club is not to win Premierships. It’s to bring pride to the members and supporters. Winning Premierships is just a means to an end - a very important means mind you - but it’s not the end unto itself.

Hardly anybody seems to agree with that opinion, but ironically those who are most emphatically opposed to it also seem to be the same people who loved having their ego stroked by our gameshow ex-President.

As the Romans used to say, “Give the people bread and circuses”.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Our club was in a far far worse position in 2009 (although it was not widely known at the time)

Port Adelaide was a basket case of a club circa 2011 / 2012. There was talk of them folding. They’ve turned it around in a big way.

We’ll be alright. Collingwood is always relevant.

I think we'll be right too, I'm talking about the real threat of Pie fans chuckin the towel in, and that IS the last bit of relevance the club has, and even that is speculative - no one has the actual numbers. 2009 is completely different in the sense there was real hope of a flag, fans weren't going to jump off the wagon.

The $1 membership offer reeks of desperation, and it can't be totally as a result of covid. Further evidence of a club losing its grip on the fans.

The point is that the natives ARE pissed off and whether or not that is valid to be so is irrelevant and there is nothing but history for any Pie fan to hang their hat on. And right now for many the light would be very dim if there is a light at all for some, we've been uber resilient and patient with the club over the last 6 decades - no doubt the litany of self infliction is testament to the loyalty and patience of our fan base.

That cannot last forever and this crisis has a feel of last chance saloon to get things right and repay the faithful less the club finally loses the masses (if those masses indeed exist in the first place).

 

[Carringbush2010]

There has been change.

I agree and is in conflict with your next paragraph.

We wont change. It hasn't happened in my lifetime. The isolated premierships have resulted in a festival of back-slapping that has lasted for years and have completely derailed the club at times. Our fixation on past traditions has often restricted our ability to make innovative decisions to recruit players in the past, and our knee-jerk over-reaction to past mistakes resulted in the recent mess.

This is my fear, but I respectfully disagree. If you can guarantee that things will continue in the same vein then it is signed sealed and delivered we will become the next dees - forgotten history and an eroded fan base, basically completely irrelevant. Our current implosion is the wake up call that the new operators of this club (whoever that will be confirmed as) will not make the same mistakes again and will be ruthless in operation in all areas of the club.

Personally, I dont have any answers and i'm not that fussed anymore.

And this is what I'm worried about, if us fans finally concede after decades of sticking phat all the while the club committing a litany of self harm over that period. Again, become the next irrelevant dees.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I think we'll be right too, I'm talking about the real threat of Pie fans chuckin the towel in, and that IS the last bit of relevance the club has, and even that is speculative - no one has the actual numbers. 2009 is completely different in the sense there was real hope of a flag, fans weren't going to jump off the wagon.

In 2009 we were 30 days away from the Westpac bank calling the administrators in and winding the club up (apparently even that was Westpac doing us a favour and if we were any other organisation they wouldn’t have given us 30 days. Hopes of flags doesn’t mean much when the doors to the joint are padlocked.

The $1 membership offer reeks of desperation, and it can't be totally as a result of covid. Further evidence of a club losing its grip on the fans.

I don’t know anything about this, do you have a link?

The point is that the natives ARE pissed off and whether or not that is valid to be so is irrelevant and there is nothing but history for any Pie fan to hang their hat on. And right now for many the light would be very dim if there is a light at all for some, we've been uber resilient and patient with the club over the last 6 decades - no doubt the litany of self infliction is testament to the loyalty and patience of our fan base.

For me as a Collingwood supporter, 2021 brought me a hell of of lot of joy and good memories and optimism for the future (I posted a lengthy list of them in the highlights thread).

Sure, finishing 17th sucks, but why wallow in that? Can’t change it.

That cannot last forever and this crisis has a feel of last chance saloon to get things right and repay the faithful less the club finally loses the masses (if those masses indeed exist in the first place).

If we had finished 17th without blooding 9 debutants this year (around 6 of whom look to have a decent future) then that would have been a crisis.

Add to that a few others who didn’t play but we could be optimistic about (Reef, McMahon, Johnson, Begg)

Add to that a few others who are sub-50 game players who had good development years (Quaynor, Cameron, Murphy). Josh Daicos has just ticked over 50.

Add to that Nick ‘The messiah’ Daicos will probably be on our list.

Let’s be realistic about it, we’re not competing for Premierships anytime soon. We’ll probably finish towards to bottom of the ladder again next year. But there’s still a lot of joy to be had following Collingwood watching these players work hard to become successful.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I’ve always said that the core purpose of the Collingwood Football Club is not to win Premierships. It’s to bring pride to the members and supporters. Winning Premierships is just a means to an end - a very important means mind you - but it’s not the end unto itself.

Agree / disagree. Premierships automatically appeases the fan base, the fan base is the lifeline of any club. Without flags there is no pride for members and fans - not for the likely majority anyway. Without success the fans will eventually vote with their feet even our base that is one of the most resilient and patient on the planet.

 

[Carringbush2010]

In 2009 we were 30 days away from the Westpac bank calling the administrators in and winding the club up (apparently even that was Westpac doing us a favour and if we were any other organisation they wouldn’t have given us 30 days. Hopes of flags doesn’t mean much when the doors to the joint are padlocked.

Sure, it wasn't well known, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about a fan base exodus.

FWIW, I doubt the doors would've foreclosed. The highest profile sporting organization in the country isn't just going to disappear over night. Somehow some way the club would've still existed.

I don’t know anything about this, do you have a link?

I got something in the mail and I'll quote the first line

' You are correct... your years of service patch was not sent along with the recent $1 membership offer we mailed you'

I have previously just recycled all the mail I get from the club, not much use in me renewing in this covid world 3500 kays away. Whether or not we received an email I don't know. Probably did, but I mostly ignore the emails from the clubs unless it's team line ups or something that'd peak my interest.

It goes onto to keep the offer open.

For me as a Collingwood supporter, 2021 brought me a hell of of lot of joy and good memories and optimism for the future (I posted a lengthy list of them in the highlights thread).

Sure, finishing 17th sucks, but why wallow in that? Can’t change it.

Sure, but a lot of Pie fans would not share that optimism, I'm sure there are many fickle types that can only take so much.

If we had finished 17th without blooding 9 debutants this year (around 6 of whom look to have a decent future) then that would have been a crisis.

Add to that a few others who didn’t play but we could be optimistic about (Reef, McMahon, Johnson, Begg)

Add to that a few others who are sub-50 game players who had good development years (Quaynor, Cameron, Murphy). Josh Daicos has just ticked over 50.

Add to that Nick ‘The messiah’ Daicos will probably be on our list.

Let’s be realistic about it, we’re not competing for Premierships anytime soon. We’ll probably finish towards to bottom of the ladder again next year. But there’s still a lot of joy to be had following Collingwood watching these players work hard to become successful.

Again, there'll be a lot who would not be so glass half full, and after the litany of self inflicted harm over the decades there is going to be a tipping point at some time.

Again, a last chance saloon scenario for the club to save itself by giving the paying fans and members > read: its lifeline < hope and likelihood of long starved success.

 

[bunter]

we're in a bit of a hole but.......
i love it when you go to a game and the pies have a young side, middling and not showing much but have some emerging stars, they then proceed to rip a top side to shreds. i can still feel the electricity from watching our young side in the late 80's when lethal took over.
that my friends is what we have to look forward to once we go through our couple of years of s**t. the memberships will follow success.