Win Prizes Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

[Gethelred]

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack.

As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them.

If you've still got a live question posted to a christian, feel free to continue conversing for the time being.

Standard board rules apply.

 

[evolved2]

i wonder if paul wasn't satan in disguise. He did seem to "adjust" christianity to suit the requirements of the empire and play to the weaknesses of humans...

Christianity is an adjustment of Judaism. Making adjustments is the easiest way to create new religions.

 

[Markfs]

All we have are reports from middlemen. If you don't accept their validity, or at least argue on the basis of the gospels providing an accurate representation of a man called Jesus, what are you basing your depiction of Jesus on?

Why do you think that?

sorry i just realised that I overlooked your question. I was proposing a view that jesus might have been "interpreted" by those that wrote the gospels for their own interests, rather than to give an accurate depiction of who he was. I dont have any evidence and christians would refute me. I would just argue that jesus must have had something to say that wasnt a rehash of the old testament, or he wouldnt have had the effect he had.....so that's my "proof". You could say it is my belief, so it's not based on rational proof....so I'm like a christian in this instance

 

[Markfs]

I'm not an ex-Catholic. My religious past was in non-denominational churches for the most part.

What's your religious history?

i'm like the dubs..... ex catholic but I never believed it, although it had an impact on my thinking. As hitler said, give me your youngsters and I'll program them.

 

[evolved2]

well i dont know why you and others are trying to tell the dubs that he is wrong.

Because he's objectively wrong about a lot of things.

Do you have long conversations telling pot smokers that they shouldnt smoke?

Pot smokers tend to be more rational than religious people, so no.

 

[evolved2]

sorry i just realised that I overlooked your question. I was proposing a view that jesus might have been "interpreted" by those that wrote the gospels for their own interests, rather than to give an accurate depiction of who he was. I dont have any evidence and christians would refute me. I would just argue that jesus must have had something to say that wasnt a rehash of the old testament, or he wouldnt have had the effect he had.....so that's my "proof". You could say it is my belief, so it's not based on rational proof....so I'm like a christian in this instance

Yes, that seems like a faith-based interpretation.

 

[Markfs]

Christianity is an adjustment of Judaism. Making adjustments is the easiest way to create new religions.

I agree but I was just suggesting that Paul adjusted Jesus on the way through to the keeper....

I've always thought that some of the jesus thing was too hard for christians to implement like loving enemies....so they reverted to the old testament and just forgot what jesus said. In fact, if you dont implement the love enemies thing, then you are really not implementing christianity. Thats why I think most christians are fundamentally old testament practitioners... eye for eye etc...

 

[Markfs]

Because he's objectively wrong about a lot of things.

Pot smokers tend to be more rational than religious people, so no.

but as we know, the dubs uses the faith flag..... so debate is futile... I dont come here often but when I do, this argument is always happening and it always ends up the same way...

but as with pot smokers, I wont tell you that you shouldnt debate the point with him.

 

[Markfs]

Yes, that seems like a faith-based interpretation.

well i acknowledge that ...as I hope you might acknowledge that if one who trashes the bible, one cant use the same bible as a basis to destroy a man-god's reputation... especially when the quotes are based on oral history over a 50 year period. You must have played chinese whispers at least once in your life...

 

[evolved2]

I agree but I was just suggesting that Paul adjusted Jesus on the way through to the keeper....

I've always thought that some of the jesus thing was too hard for christians to implement like loving enemies....so they reverted to the old testament and just forgot what jesus said. In fact, if you dont implement the love enemies thing, then you are really not implementing christianity. Thats why I think most christians are fundamentally old testament practitioners... eye for eye etc...

The eye for an eye passage is a system of justice/law for Jews. Think of it like the death sentence in the US.

Have you read Exodus?

 

[evolved2]

but as we know, the dubs uses the faith flag..... so debate is futile... I dont come here often but when I do, this argument is always happening and it always ends up the same way...

but as with pot smokers, I wont tell you that you shouldnt debate the point with him.

Dubsy switches scientist and believer hats when it suits, then disappears when you call him out on the duplicity.

 

[Markfs]

The eye for an eye passage is a system of justice/law for Jews. Think of it like the death sentence in the US.

Have you read Exodus?

I have brushed up against the bible over the years but I see no point in actually reading long passages. My father read it many years ago from cover to cover when i was very young. I remember wondering why at the time. So I'm not as well honed as most people in here who are obsessed with the bible. I tend to look at the wider picture. Those are the things that interest me rather than arguing points of order.

The US is an old testament state....which probably explains why judaism fits so well there....

 

[Markfs]

Dubsy switches scientist and believer hats when it suits, then disappears when you call him out on the duplicity.

Well if you have a magic trick that works every time, you tend to rely on it. As I saw recently, the "god has his plan" argument trumps everything....

but the dubs has a plan for himself, which he says works. If it keeps him off the streets, we should be happy......as long as he doesnt start knocking on doors asking for money and selling watchtower...

 

[evolved2]

I have brushed up against the bible over the years but I see no point in actually reading long passages. My father read it many years ago from cover to cover when i was very young. I remember wondering why at the time. So I'm not as well honed as most people in here who are obsessed with the bible. I tend to look at the wider picture. Those are the things that interest me rather than arguing points of order.

The US is an old testament state....which probably explains why judaism fits so well there....

In this case, the wider picture is that many people, you included, misunderstand the OT because you haven't read it.

The "eye for an eye" passage is just part of ancient Jewish law. The new testament is far more bloodthirsty in parts. Read the book of revelation if you don't believe me.

Have a short read of Jewish law for yourself:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

“These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Markfs]

A question just came to mind as I looked at the cricket scores. Why has our god allowed us to lose against the hindu god? He could easily allowed us to win and it would only have upset a small minority of christians who live in india....

 

[Markfs]

In this case, the wider picture is that many people, you included, misunderstand the OT because you haven't read it.

The "eye for an eye" passage is just part of ancient Jewish law. The new testament is far more bloodthirsty in parts. Read the book of revelation if you don't believe me.

Have a short read of Jewish law for yourself:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

“These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with...

www.biblegateway.com

I acknowledged that I know nothing...and i've acknowledged that I'm not fussed about it.

I have the general notion that the nasty old testament law at least put a concept of justice to the jews, living in an ancient world where you didnt have to have a justification for killing another person. So it was probably an advancement....similar to the single god when compared to having gods for everything.

As I stated previously, I dont judge the bloodthirsty aspects of the bible because I'm an atheist and the book was written by men at the time. I dont expect more of it because god wrote it because I'm an atheist and I think that line of thinking is nonsense.

So to put it clearly, I'm not impressed with atheists quoting the bible and shrieking that it is bloodthirsty, as if they're expecting it to be the word of god.

 

[Markfs]

In this case, the wider picture is that many people, you included, misunderstand the OT because you haven't read it.

The "eye for an eye" passage is just part of ancient Jewish law. The new testament is far more bloodthirsty in parts. Read the book of revelation if you don't believe me.

Have a short read of Jewish law for yourself:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

“These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with...

www.biblegateway.com

This exodus quote supports my view of jesus. Although he referred to the old testament, he didnt come out with all these prescriptive requirements of how he thought a person should live by. He told a story and it made a simple point....I see him as that type of guy (although I recognise that I dont have qualifications in bible study)

 

[Mr Sasquatch]

I posted relevant bible verses to justify my pov. The floor is yours if you have a different interpretation.

You can't justify your point of view like that because you have literally ZERO understanding of what you quoted.

 

[evolved2]

You can't justify your point of view like that because you have literally ZERO understanding of what you quoted.

I justified everything, POE.

 

[evolved2]

This exodus quote supports my view of jesus. Although he referred to the old testament, he didnt come out with all these prescriptive requirements of how he thought a person should live by. He told a story and it made a simple point....I see him as that type of guy (although I recognise that I dont have qualifications in bible study)

Nonsense. You didn't read the chapter, did you?

 

[Vdubs]

Dubsy switches scientist and believer hats when it suits, then disappears when you call him out on the duplicity.

What duplicity, please?
I am both, unashamedly.They are not mutually exclusive

 

[Markfs]

Nonsense. You didn't read the chapter, did you?

There is so little politeness in this thread.....which doesnt surprise me.

As for the question, I used to skip a lot of homework back in school and rely on luck to get me through

I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'm an atheist. I dont have to prove why I am. I just dont believe that jesus was god and most of the bible is something generated to meet the needs of other people. I like to know why so many people believe in it but I'm certainly not going to read the bible. I'd like to know what the koran means too but I dont want to waste time on it. I'll offer my views and you'll ignore them if I knew the bible to the anal degree or whether I know as little as I do now....

So you can return to discussing your legal points with your fellow posters...

 

[Mr Sasquatch]

I justified everything, POE.

It's ok if you think you did but
You didn't because you can't.

 

[Total Power]

What duplicity, please?
I am both, unashamedly.They are not mutually exclusive

LOL says the bloke who believes in intelligent design cause of our bodies healing power. What 'part' of science is 'creation science'? name a credible scientist who believes in Adam and Eve being a real person, which NT family tree (and Jesus) affirms? Before you call me a literally, multiple verses in the OT (and NT) supports this.

Religions with specific claims that conflict with mountains of empirical evidence certainly fly in the face of science. I am particularly frustrated pages and pages worth pseudo scientific claims you have made and then when someone debunks (like my last post about evolution which is always ignored by you) it you come back with 'man made science'. Yep cause Bible was written by Jesus, wasn't it? Bible was written by MEN as well (all anonymous) decades and centuries after the death of this individual you call God at a time where VAST MAJORITY of the people were ILLERATE. Guess where religion thrives in this day and age as well? ah that's right...

You are not fooling anyone. Faith is irrational, Kant, Hume, Calvin say hello. You can't define faith the way you want to, faith is never reasonable, it's in the face of everything we have learnt so far.

 

[Markfs]

This point of view came to mind and I like to write my thoughts so here it is....

There are people in this world that are badgering gay people and making life difficult for them, because some bloke wrote something 3,000 years in the bible which said that homosexuals were unclean or some other stuff.... just think about it. How crazy is that? I suppose there are people out there who slavishly follow some philosophers but I find it bewildering that a person would treat another person so badly based on such flimsy evidence.

Now I think we all realise that some people just have hate within them and becoming christian and quoting the bible gives them an opportunity to express their hate.... so they're not really badgering these gays because god told them to. They're doing it because of their internal hate and they want to do it.

And so I see this as one of the many problems of christianity.... it enables hate. Ironically when it portrays itself as a religion concerned with love.

And then we hear all this stuff from christians about being sinners and making mistakes. It just doesnt meet the pub test. There's something inherently wrong with religion. It's not getting the best out of people.

 

[Markfs]

You guys need to be more polite to each other. Try to buck the modern trend of rubbishing anyone's point of view that you dont agree with.