Preview Changes for the Giants game

[Wilburwild]

Hey guys, GWS dropped an 18 year old this week to accommodate a 35 year old in McDonald returning, are they not playing the kids?

They're playing three members of their coaching staff this week, are you serious, what about the kids?!

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

They're playing three members of their coaching staff this week, are you serious, what about the kids?!

Now you are being silly.

My point has always been that you need to play a balance of experienced players to assist in the development of new kids. Others argued last year that we shouldn't play guys like Doughty even though we averaged less than 5 players over 25 per game last year. (want the stats?) The so called Primus/Spackler Theory said we should have stopped playing Reilly and Doughty last year to bring in more kids.

This season we have played 8 of our 9 players over 25 (only Symes has missed out) and Johncock is injured this week. I think we have the balance wrong and we could afford to play Doughty or Reilly and Porplyzia (I love Porps but I just don't believe he will be running around in Crows colours in two years time) or Callinan. This would free up two spots for Shaw/ Kerridge /Lyons /Lynch etc.

If we get injuries then we have players like Symes and Doughty to come in and maintain a reasonable balance of mature players (all be it more mature players than we had in our teams last year)

If we end up on 12 wins, finish 9th and Dogga has played 22 games then our season will not have achieved as much as we would like.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Maturity is the key.

I also think he doesn't play well when the rest of the side stinks. When the team is up and firing (against good or bad) he can perform to his best but when the team is struggling, he will struggle and look disinterested.

The area where I have seen improvement this year was during the Collingwood and West Coast preseason game where turned the game around on his own. The team was abit flat and he turned it around with a few 1% ers and pressure acts and then goals and this changed the momentum of the game.

He is still a work in progress and will have his down moments (like last weeks gane) but this year he has shown improvement.

I think he's a bit of a confidence player as well. If he misses some chances early, he'll probably have a bad day from then on. If he nails them, he'll go on with it and kick a few more. He gets discouraged far too easily.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

My point has always been that you need to play a balance of experienced players to assist in the development of new kids. Others argued last year that we shouldn't play guys like Doughty even though we averaged less than 5 players over 25 per game last year. (want the stats?) The so called Primus/Spackler Theory said we should have stopped playing Reilly and Doughty last year to bring in more kids.

It's a good post. Fewer than five players over 25 last year - the stats don't lie.

In hindsight it was bold from Neil to make these hard calls on players and to promote youth so strongly. I can't believe I missed it at the time. Why doesn't Sando share the same vision? Talk about frustrating!

Two things I've learned from this thread:
- Coaches deserve a pat on the back for injuries
- Neil Craig actually only coached us in 2010 and 2011

 

[Wilburwild]

Now you are being silly.

My point has always been that you need to play a balance of experienced players to assist in the development of new kids. Others argued last year that we shouldn't play guys like Doughty even though we averaged less than 5 players over 25 per game last year. (want the stats?) The so called Primus/Spackler Theory said we should have stopped playing Reilly and Doughty last year to bring in more kids.

This season we have played 8 of our 9 players over 25 (only Symes has missed out) and Johncock is injured this week. I think we have the balance wrong and we could afford to play Doughty or Reilly and Porplyzia (I love Porps but I just don't believe he will be running around in Crows colours in two years time) or Callinan. This would free up two spots for Shaw/ Kerridge /Lyons /Lynch etc.

If we get injuries then we have players like Symes and Doughty to come in and maintain a reasonable balance of mature players (all be it more mature players than we had in our teams last year)

If we end up on 12 wins, finish 9th and Dogga has played 22 games then our season will not have achieved as much as we would like.

It is true that GWS are playing three coaches this week. McDonald, Power and Brogan all have coaching roles at the club.
Look, I think I understand what you're trying to say, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just think its wrong. You can't give up the season in R3. Doughty and Reilly, as much as you may want to disagree, are both in our best 22 currently and both playing decent football. Reilly is playing some of his best football at the moment and is playing a very important role for our side. Doughty provides that hard edge and experience, and has been one of our better players the last couple of weeks.
I don't really believe that Stiffy is injured, at least not injured enough to miss, I think his poor form has seen the inclusion of a youngster, but he is someone you don't "drop", we've been diplomatic and given him an out.
Lynch is stiff to go out, but on balance for the structure it makes sense. Lynch Can't ruck, Smack can. I'd love to see Kerridge get in for a full game, and I don't think there's any doubt he'll play a bunch of games this year, he'll get his chance. Makes sense to keep Hendo out against GWS, he's had a couple of heavy knocks, give him a bit of a rest, he'll definitely be back.
I think Sando has it about right.

 

[knobby]

AFGM - so enamoured by youth - are you an Anglican minister ????

 

[Freddy Bassett]

AFGM - so enamoured by youth - are you an Anglican minister ????

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The whole so called " Mob" are

 

[cm_perfect]

Maturity is the key.

I also think he doesn't play well when the rest of the side stinks. When the team is up and firing (against good or bad) he can perform to his best but when the team is struggling, he will struggle and look disinterested.

The area where I have seen improvement this year was during the Collingwood and West Coast preseason game where turned the game around on his own. The team was abit flat and he turned it around with a few 1% ers and pressure acts and then goals and this changed the momentum of the game.

He is still a work in progress and will have his down moments (like last weeks gane) but this year he has shown improvement.

Agree with your post, in regards to the bolded bit, this can be said for most forwards in any team..ask Jono Brown about last week.

 

[Mattrox]

It is true that GWS are playing three coaches this week. McDonald, Power and Brogan all have coaching roles at the club.
Look, I think I understand what you're trying to say, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just think its wrong. You can't give up the season in R3. Doughty and Reilly, as much as you may want to disagree, are both in our best 22 currently and both playing decent football. Reilly is playing some of his best football at the moment and is playing a very important role for our side. Doughty provides that hard edge and experience, and has been one of our better players the last couple of weeks.
I don't really believe that Stiffy is injured, at least not injured enough to miss, I think his poor form has seen the inclusion of a youngster, but he is someone you don't "drop", we've been diplomatic and given him an out.
Lynch is stiff to go out, but on balance for the structure it makes sense. Lynch Can't ruck, Smack can. I'd love to see Kerridge get in for a full game, and I don't think there's any doubt he'll play a bunch of games this year, he'll get his chance. Makes sense to keep Hendo out against GWS, he's had a couple of heavy knocks, give him a bit of a rest, he'll definitely be back.
I think Sando has it about right.

Best post in the thread.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Agree with your post, in regards to the bolded bit, this can be said for most forwards in any team..ask Jono Brown about last week.

That's true.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I think he's a bit of a confidence player as well. If he misses some chances early, he'll probably have a bad day from then on. If he nails them, he'll go on with it and kick a few more. He gets discouraged far too easily.

I don't think he loses confidence in his own ability to play the game but does lose confidence in being able to play in the environment around him, such as when he comes up against someone bigger and this results in how use his size and body. This is an area he is is still learning.

Nathan Bassett said after the Western Bulldogs game that when he is back at Norwood, he is the biggest kid on the ground and has that confidence to use his body and size and can completely dominate. However in the AFL and he comes up against someone bigger, that confidence gets lost but is improving.

So I guess you could say he is a confidence player and hopefully once he develops that confidence to compete against AFL sized defenders, his improvement will increase quite dramatically.

 

[King Elvis]

Agree with your post, in regards to the bolded bit, this can be said for most forwards in any team..ask Jono Brown about last week.

Brown (like Tippett) doesn't drop his head and accept that there is nothing he can do to contribute and have an impact on the game.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

It's a good post. Fewer than five players over 25 last year - the stats don't lie.

In hindsight it was bold from Neil to make these hard calls on players and to promote youth so strongly. I can't believe I missed it at the time. Why doesn't Sando share the same vision? Talk about frustrating!

Two things I've learned from this thread:
- Coaches deserve a pat on the back for injuries
- Neil Craig actually only coached us in 2010 and 2011

I would be happy to provide a complete analysis of the period
2005-2011 providing you agree not to make up any other excuses if the stats prove you wrong.

It would be easy for me to start this discussion after round 10 but I prefer to state things upfront and see how things unfold. I am however looking forward to providing a comprehensive mid season summary after round 10.

 

[craig crowing]

The key here that some are making is not so much on ages but those that been on list for so long that continue to under perform in tough matches and continue to make same mistakes and not able to do the key things against teams that apply real pressure.
Especially when after such a disaster year last year we have a long way to climb back and are we really going to do that using same base players that is why posters wanting to give opportunities to Shaw -- Lynch -- Lyon - Kerridge etc .
Myself I think Callinan with much more skills than 80% of team and even Tambling with pace etc could add that something extra and was hoping Johnson could also do that as well adding another tall to defensive end with Otten demise.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I would be happy to provide a complete analysis of the period
2005-2011 providing you agree not to make up any other excuses if the stats prove you wrong.

Analysis of what?

I quite liked your Reilly or Doughty / Callinan or Porplyzia idea. If you could point out all the tough choices the club made under Neil of this type and the 1st/2nd year players that got a game as a result that would be great.

I'm wary though. Given that you are framing the 'analysis' I'm sure we'll see clever wording and deftly placed lines, like over 25 which excludes Tambling and Knights by a matter of months, despite being perfect examples of overlooking mid-range players.

I really don't want to make changes or new excuses afterwards just because I don't like the result of your analysis. It'd be like claiming that youth development came down to how many games players got in their first two seasons, then back pedalling at pace and claiming that actually games played doesn't matter and the Crows just had lots of talls and finished higher than all the other clubs given all our premierships and finals success.

So just to clarify, you'll be providing:-
The list of older/experienced AFL players that played SANFL games during Neil's reign
The games they played in the SANFL when fully fit (ie not returning from injury)
The 1st or 2nd year draftee that played in their place

Who will this be measured against? Sanderson 2012? Other clubs? Open to negotiation on that. Whatever you think bests illustrates Neil's ongoing commitment to youth.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Agree with your post, in regards to the bolded bit, this can be said for most forwards in any team..ask Jono Brown about last week.

Bit harsh on Browny... 1st game back from 2 horrific injuries...

 

[Wilburwild]

Best post in the thread.

Cheers

For me, when I look at the team sheet for tomorrow's game, the only "older" guys playing are Rutten (our full back, who while he has lost a yard or two is still very important), Reilly (who is playing some of his best football currently and very important to our structure), van Berlo (our captain, will not be dropped), Porplyzia (We all love him, and know what he is capable of, he's a 50 goal forward at his best, given a bit of footy he should find his form. Too important and too many runs on the board to drop at this stage), Callinan (He's a livewire down forward and the first real crumber we've had in many years), Doughty (playing well, one of our best last week, has that hard edge the young guys don't), and the one and only (well not actually) Scott Thompson (no explanation necessary).

Tell me AFGM how we justify dropping these guys? Yes its great to get games into young guys to get experience but you don't do it at the detriment of your team. Unless you are in a position like Geelong last year where you can afford to "rest" players, you play your best side.

 

[cm_perfect]

Brown (like Tippett) doesn't drop his head and accept that there is nothing he can do to contribute and have an impact on the game.

Yep, and that went swimmingly for Browny last week

I made the comment based on when a side has a shocker most forwards will struggle to get into the game..dont read to much into it..

I must say, I cant wait for Tex's game to be analysed to nth degree again this week...

 

[cm_perfect]

Bit harsh on Browny... 1st game back from 2 horrific injuries...

Yep, agree. see post above for the point I was trying to make..

 

[PykeDream]

Brown (like Tippett) doesn't drop his head and accept that there is nothing he can do to contribute and have an impact on the game.

Poor bloke was more or less parked in the centre square for much of the second half; the Lions were still too inept to get the ball that far forward.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Cheers

For me, when I look at the team sheet for tomorrow's game, the only "older" guys playing are Rutten (our full back, who while he has lost a yard or two is still very important), Reilly (who is playing some of his best football currently and very important to our structure), van Berlo (our captain, will not be dropped), Porplyzia (We all love him, and know what he is capable of, he's a 50 goal forward at his best, given a bit of footy he should find his form. Too important and too many runs on the board to drop at this stage), Callinan (He's a livewire down forward and the first real crumber we've had in many years), Doughty (playing well, one of our best last week, has that hard edge the young guys don't), and the one and only (well not actually) Scott Thompson (no explanation necessary).

Tell me AFGM how we justify dropping these guys? Yes its great to get games into young guys to get experience but you don't do it at the detriment of your team. Unless you are in a position like Geelong last year where you can afford to "rest" players, you play your best side.

You've joined the party a bit late.

Doughty was very ordinary during the preseason compared to Shaw and Kerridge. Once he was named in round one, he was always going to get the first 8 games. We play 4 non-contenders in our first 5 matches. Let's look at the form of Doughty, Reilly, Callinan and Porplyzia from round 6 to 10.

I'll bump this post during the mid season break and I will be happy to concede that I was wrong if we are challenging for the top 4 and these four guys are all fit and firing.

 

[King Elvis]

I think we're wasting our time with Doughty & Reilly as well.

 

[Vader]

Do you really believe that Brodie Smith was in our best 22 in round 1 last year? We played him and I believe he is now in our best 22. That's how it works when you are rebuilding.

No.. but he was one of the best 22 players available at the time, given that we had a double-digit injury list for most of 2011 (roughly half of which was made up of players from our best 22, who were thus unavailable for selection).

Personally, I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Your analysis fails completely on the basis that you refuse, which is stronger than overlook, to acknowledge the fact that we're currently in the unusual situation of having almost no injuries. Until you acknowledge this - and the influence it has on a team's ability to play youngsters - your arguments will continue to be completely irrelevant.

 

[Southerntakeover]

No.. but he was one of the best 22 players available at the time, given that we had a double-digit injury list for most of 2011 (roughly half of which was made up of players from our best 22, who were thus unavailable for selection).

Personally, I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Your analysis fails completely on the basis that you refuse, which is stronger than overlook, to acknowledge the fact that we're currently in the unusual situation of having almost no injuries. Until you acknowledge this - and the influence it has on a team's ability to play youngsters - your arguments will continue to be completely irrelevant.

The debate is trapped between two polar refusals to admit. Whilst he may refuse to accept that the recent history of Crows playing youngsters is more rooted in injury than design (and not to be congratulated for that reason), you refuse to admit that teams have ever prioritised playing young potentially elite players above more senior non elites.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

No.. but he was one of the best 22 players available at the time, given that we had a double-digit injury list for most of 2011 (roughly half of which was made up of players from our best 22, who were thus unavailable for selection).

Personally, I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Your analysis fails completely on the basis that you refuse, which is stronger than overlook, to acknowledge the fact that we're currently in the unusual situation of having almost no injuries. Until you acknowledge this - and the influence it has on a team's ability to play youngsters - your arguments will continue to be completely irrelevant.

Not even close Vader.

In round 1 last year the only players missing from our best 22 were Kurt Tippett and Sam Jacobs. Don't you remember losing Porplyzia, Mackay and Sloane in round 1. Whilst Brodie Smith did a great job battling Renouf and Hale in ruck and clunking marks at centre half forward I suspect it would be more accurate to say he was played in front of Symes, Petrenko, Jaensch, Cook and Gunston.

All the small players on our senior list were available for round 1 and we "PLAYED THE KID"

No soup for you Vader.................NEXT