Preview Changes for the Giants game

[Rave Slave]

Quick question as I've only jumped straight into this thread without really trawling the boards but how the heff is Taylor Walker getting off so lightly and Tippett is copping the brunt of the attacks?

I love Tex and certain facets of his game but that was clearly one of the worst performances I've seen from an AFL footballer. He may be slow and lumbering in terms of a KP forward but the lack of endeavour and attack on the ball was disappointing. I'd rather see Lynch and Tippett up forward and Walker as the sub. Send him a message instead of giving him a pass to bully the GWS kids.

Johncock is another that's horribly out of form but at least he has runs on the board.

 

[BACCS]

Players under pressure

Otten - he's into his second season back now, we should be starting to see some signs of the 2009 Otten. We aren't. The ball handling and decision making that seemed so assured when he debuted have disappeared

Martin - ruscy is right - the withdrawal of Hendo forced Martin back. I'm sure Plan A was to play him further up the ground. Hope he gets another chance.

Kerridge - only because last in, first out. Really hope he survives and plays again this week.


I can see one change with Otten out for Shaw, Henderson or Jaensch. Henderson the favourite.

Would personally like to see Shaw, Jaensch and Lyons all play but I can't see any established players being dropped. So unless it is a Kerridge or Martin that makes way then they'll have to bide their time.

I would have never picked you Carl to make the most reasoned post so far in this thread. Agree with all of that. Doughty and Reilly don't deserve to be dropped on form, and I can't see Sando resting guys like that for the sake of it. Kerridge for Lyons could also be a possible change, but wouldn't mind either way with that one.

Also, Sando has been pretty clear all along that we won't rest guys until later in the season, if we are afforded that luxury by already being cemented in a finals spot.

 

[BACCS]

Yay Dogga shut a bloke down. Could an Aiden Riely at 10 years younger do the exact same thing and gain that touch more experience for our next premiership tilt. YES.
Martin at 24 is no better then Kerrige Lyons or Wright, Who are all a few years younger.

Um, we are not talking about any player, we are talking about one of the most dangerous small forwards in the comp. There is no way someone like Riley could perform like that at this stage in his career. Get the stones outta your head.

 

[BACCS]

Whilst this might show he plays the same against good sides as he does against the weaker sides, to me it highlights he hasn't really improved a great deal since his debut year .

He is also still 21. His contested marking, chasing, hitting contests etc. has improved dramatically since his first year, but consistency is the thing he still needs to get right.

On a side note, has there ever been another player to cause this much debate between supporters on this forum?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Quick question as I've only jumped straight into this thread without really trawling the boards but how the heff is Taylor Walker getting off so lightly and Tippett is copping the brunt of the attacks?

I love Tex and certain facets of his game but that was clearly one of the worst performances I've seen from an AFL footballer. He may be slow and lumbering in terms of a KP forward but the lack of endeavour and attack on the ball was disappointing. I'd rather see Lynch and Tippett up forward and Walker as the sub. Send him a message instead of giving him a pass to bully the GWS kids.

Johncock is another that's horribly out of form but at least he has runs on the board.

I haven't bothered reading much today as I cant be stuffed reading crap. We lost to a top 2 side on their own deck... Was it really a surprise? If we kicked like a normal AFL side we would of lost by 20 points....

But how can anyone with any football knowledge bag Tippett? He was very impressive. Yes, he missed some easy shots, but so does T.Cloke....Through him is the only way our club can become a genuine threat... When his kicking eventually clicks, he will be a top 3 forward in the league. Walker was worse than horrible. Pathetic. I am sure he will kick 5 vs GWS this week to keep his average up which so many BF people rate as the be all and end all.

 

[King Elvis]

Tippett is a gun.

We've all been waiting for him to put it together; he isn't there yet (mainly his goal kicking), but everything else... Jesus, he's going to be very, very good.

He's playing like Riewoldt, but 10cm taller - the bloke is almost unstoppable when we give him half a chance.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Yay Dogga shut a bloke down. Could an Aiden Riely at 10 years younger do the exact same thing and gain that touch more experience for our next premiership tilt. YES.
Martin at 24 is no better then Kerrige Lyons or Wright, Who are all a few years younger.

Ask Port supporters how they are feeling about a coach, like you, who is fascinated by age.. It is a fine line..

 

[CrowFan83]

He is also still 21. His contested marking, chasing, hitting contests etc. has improved dramatically since his first year, but consistency is the thing he still needs to get right.

On a side note, has there ever been another player to cause this much debate between supporters on this forum?

You wouldn't have thought so! By my reckoning every win is because of Walker and every loss is his fault too............ not excusing his poor efforts but he seems to be getting judged harshly, have a feeling he may be following the hawkins path to consistency/confidence.

I don't like the fact we have the GWS game this week either, yes it will be good to move to 3-1 (assuming the unthinkable doesn't happen) but has come at a bad time after this loss - if Sando drops players for form/confidence issues it is as good as dropping them for at least 2 weeks really as it won't be hard for the team this week to look good (including those who performed badly against the hawks).

 

[glengowan]

It's a pity the Crows come up against GWS after a game like that. The first get out of jail free card used for the season for some players.

I was most disappointed in Vince and Walker on the weekend. Both are key players and they need to step up for the side to be a force.

You wouldn't want to make too many changes but I would like to see Shaw, Wright and Jaensch play and would have since round one.

I think Shaw is an obvious replacement for Otten. I would have expected after a few years in the system he would have become better at the one on ones but he hasn't. His pace also hasn't seemed to recover from that injury. A smart player but needs to burn up the SANFL for a month and demand a spot in the side.

My changes would be:

In Shaw/Out Otten
In Wright/Out Petrenko
In Jaensch/Out Martin

 

[Freddy Bassett]

You wouldn't have thought so!
I don't like the fact we have the GWS game this week either, yes it will be good to move to 3-1 (assuming the unthinkable doesn't happen) but has come at a bad time after this loss - if Sando drops players for form/confidence issues it is as good as dropping them for at least 2 weeks really as it won't be hard for the team this week to look good (including those who performed badly against the hawks).

He simply does not present.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

It's a pity the Crows come up against GWS after a game like that. The first get out of jail free card used for the season for some players.

I was most disappointed in Vince and Walker on the weekend. Both are key players and they need to step up for the side to be a force.

You wouldn't want to make too many changes but I would like to see Shaw, Wright and Jaensch play and would have since round one.

I think Shaw is an obvious replacement for Otten. I would have expected after a few years in the system he would have become better at the one on ones but he hasn't. His pace also hasn't seemed to recover from that injury. A smart player but needs to burn up the SANFL for a month and demand a spot in the side.

My changes would be:

In Shaw/Out Otten
In Wright/Out Petrenko
In Jaensch/Out Martin

But Petrenko is the next Cyril Rioli

What was Malcolm smoking?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

What happened to the old Fiery Alex? Last year you would have been building the bonfire. Are you on prozac?

At least you are still blaming Neil craig.

Wasn't blaming him, was simply pointing out we don't kick the ball back any more.

The second 50% was about the defensive side of the game that our midfield doesn't excel at and it seems only Andy Otten is getting criticized for. Our midfield misses tackles, they go to ground very easy when not in possession of the ball and don't apply as much defensive pressure when the game is on the line.

 

[BACCS]

I haven't bothered reading much today as I cant be stuffed reading crap. We lost to a top 2 side on their own deck... Was it really a surprise? If we kicked like a normal AFL side we would of lost by 20 points....

But how can anyone with any football knowledge bag Tippett? He was very impressive. Yes, he missed some easy shots, but so does T.Cloke....Through him is the only way our club can become a genuine threat... When his kicking eventually clicks, he will be a top 3 forward in the league. Walker was worse than horrible. Pathetic. I am sure he will kick 5 vs GWS this week to keep his average up which so many BF people rate as the be all and end all.

FFS, Tex doesn't just bully weaker sides. As a poster highlighted earlier, he has actually played just as well against the best as against the worst. At least put a little effort into a post before making such a wild opinion.

 

[BACCS]

But Petrenko is the next Cyril Rioli

What was Malcolm smoking?

Haha, ffs. He said that Pets had 'attributes' that Rioli does, you could say that about most players having traits of a superior player of their type. It is amazing how much a quote degenerates after a while to something that suits the poster, classic BF. Rioli had plenty of quiet games early in his career too, but a few would have been glossed over because the media drool over anything he does, no matter how small. He also wasn't that much better than Petrenko on the weekend either. Malcolm wasn't smoking anything, but you certainly seem to be atm.

Rioli is a far better player than Petrenko will probably ever be, but that doesn't mean Pets can't have some of his attributes.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Might as well drop Martin if we're intent on playing him as a shutdown defender. Heck, may as well delist him.
Not sure what to do about Otten. He's had long enough after his injury to show that he's up to it, but hasn't delivered. Don't think a spell in the SANFL will help him at all, but he's not playing first 22 football.

A change I'd like is for the coaching panel to show the kind of confidence they had in the NAB cup - ie not allowing the opposition to have a loose man in defence. Josh Gibson is only a damaging player if you let him run around on his own. We didn't let Hurn or Maxwell do it in the NAB cup, and it worked for us. Why did we start now?

 

[Paladin]

Out:
Thommo (Rested)
Doughty (Rested/Balance)
Otten (Form)


In:
Jaensch
Hendo (Shaw)
Wright

Give Martin and Kerridge two cracks at it. We need Jaensch setting up the play. If any other mids are carrying injuries give Lyons a go. Shaw if Hendo needs another week off.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Just a question, did anyone actually watch the game?

Our midfield was smashed, I think we won the clearances but big deal. That;s just getting the first possession but after that we didn't have any sort of control of the ball all game. They killed us with how much ball movement they had, controlled the movement patterns all day. Hawthorn basically did as they pleased, they had plenty of time, space and efficiency with whom they kicked the ball to, especially into the forward line and 99% of you want to drop a defender who had no control of this.

The ball was coming in with ease. No one was covering space the Hawthorn forwards were leading into and it's no wonder we were smashed.

Plus, didn't Andy Otten play on Jack Gunston? and didn't he have zero impact on the game? not the new whipping boy? my arse he's not.

This board (or should I say, a select few are) is full of shit at times.

 

[King Elvis]

Our back six is completely unbalanced..

Andy has been pretty ordinary Alex - he's much better tha he's playing, the SANFL isnt a death sentence, send him back to find he mojo - especially when we have players in form, demanding selection. He gave us nothing going forward, at all, for the second week in a row. He's not a pure shutdown defender - he's the guy we need running, carrying and creating out of the backline; but he doesn't seem too interesting in making the effort at present.

Andy is a shadow of the player he was in his first year, when he was showing signs of being an absolute star.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Our midfield was smashed, I think we won the clearances but big deal. That;s just getting the first possession but after that we didn't have any sort of control of the ball all game.

Spot on.

Our raw clearance stats were good. But what do we turn them into?

Even when we got a centre clearance and broke free we still chose the bomb to the top of the square. Deep F50 entries is ingrained unfortunately. Midfielders bomb and forwards don't lead. Will take some changing this mindset.

 

[NTRabbit]

The difference between a clearance from each team was quite stark. We had players fumbling, everyone in at the ball trying to pick it up or scramble it forward, few clean possessions, lots of bad handballs, and mostly rushed kicks.

Hawthorn? One player picked the ball up first time. A succession of 2-4 quick, short range handpasses between players under pressure, with no fumbles, every handpass hitting the target, before a long range handpass out to the midfielder who had dropped off the back while all of ours chased the ball, trusting that he wasn't needed in the maul. That player than put a pass onto the chest of a spreading Hawk, and on it went from there.

 

[King Elvis]

I think we will have learned a huge amount from yesterday's game - you guys are both spot on.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Our back six is completely unbalanced..

Andy has been pretty ordinary Alex - he's much better tha he's playing, the SANFL isnt a death sentence, send him back to find he mojo - especially when we have players in form, demanding selection. He gave us nothing going forward, at all, for the second week in a row. He's not a pure shutdown defender - he's the guy we need running, carrying and creating out of the backline; but he doesn't seem too interesting in making the effort at present.

Andy is a shadow of the player he was in his first year, when he was showing signs of being an absolute star.

I'm not saying he's been in outstanding form, but I must be watching a very different game and player when you saying his form has been ordinary.

Saturday, he played on Gunston and Gunston was a non factor. That's a tick in my book for a defender, especially how fast, often and with ease the ball was coming down.

I'd be questioning the half forward line and asking where their pressure was. Why weren't they chasing and applying pressure, trying to make them accountable? Their half back line was where the movement started from, their run and carry was started from there half backs, running off our half forwards bit since a select few have elected Otten as the one to be dropped, 8/10th of this board are now running with it as it's the easy option.

The midfield and half forward line were non existent in their defensive pressure and that made winning the ball back by the defenders become a bitch of a time.

 

[Paladin]

Just a question, did anyone actually watch the game?

Our midfield was smashed, I think we won the clearances but big deal. That;s just getting the first possession but after that we didn't have any sort of control of the ball all game. They killed us with how much ball movement they had, controlled the movement patterns all day. Hawthorn basically did as they pleased, they had plenty of time, space and efficiency with whom they kicked the ball to, especially into the forward line and 99% of you want to drop a defender who had no control of this.

The ball was coming in with ease. No one was covering space the Hawthorn forwards were leading into and it's no wonder we were smashed.

Plus, didn't Andy Otten play on Jack Gunston? and didn't he have zero impact on the game? not the new whipping boy? my arse he's not.

This board (or should I say, a select few are) is full of shit at times.

Obviously you didn't watch if you think Otten is playing at an AFL standard. He stood Jack on occasion maybe 10 to 15% of the game.

Its not just this weeks game. He has shown no form the entire preseason and the first 3 rounds. Plenty of guys in the SANFL that are playing well. Also our backline is far too slow and lacks run Andy in particular is giving us nothing. We already have shutdown defenders in Talia, Rutten and Doughty. Cant afford 4.

 

[King Elvis]

I wanted Otten dropped last week - he looked disinterested against the Dogs, he didn't do much yesterday to challenge my thinking.

I want him dropped to get his Mojo back though, not to be banished forever

EDIT - yesterday - 7 touches, one tackle, one pressure act... This is the guy who was racking up ~25 possessions most weeks in his first full season with us, and using them beautifully. He isn't a shut down defender, if he offers us nothing offensively, he shouldn't be in the side.

 

[CrowCro]

The ball was never delivered to him.

Tip was in good marking form and catching everything his way and smashing Shoenmakers. Walker was more of a decoy to keep the third tall from Tip. Go back watch the tape and you can see Walker is a fair way from most contests with the ball not coming his way at all.

I actually wonder what his role was on the weekend.

Tipett was great but all his marks are contested and hard marks. he takes very few easy marks where he runs onto a noce pass from an effective lead . This is because our midfiels never raise their eyes when kicking forward they just bomb it long and high. last year all over again