How do you get experience?
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Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
Didnt we lose a number of first round picks during that era as well?
And you're not arguing for success. You're arguing for perpetual mediocre finishes, through a refusal to do the hard work actually required to succeed.
15th-16th?
Remember the excitement after 2009... We finished 6th. I think finishing 6th would be a fantastic springboard for 2013. Carlton finished 6th last year, currently premiership favourites
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
No talent involved? Just pure age?
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Do you think Doughty and to a lesser extent Reilly are the difference between us finishing 8-10 or 15-16th?
WaynesWorld19
Post-Human
At what point and who decides when it's appropriate to start winning games
With our draw this year it's probable we will make the finals
I ask this
1. Is it good for the youth WE ARE playing to experience playing finals this year
2. Does it help us re-signing Tippett and Dangerfield if we make the finals and show we are a club on the move
3. Is it detrimental to Tippett & Dangerfield re-signing to not be aiming at winning games
The whole premise of sport is to WIN ......at no point is it even remotely acceptable to say winning is not important
I think picking our best 22 rather than blooding youth from round 1 would be the difference.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
The issue is we're wasting developmental opportunities playing guys who are largely irrelevant to our teams success, whilst guys who are ready for an AFL opportunity are being left to languish in the SANFL.
So we're picking them for compassionate reasons?
Because most AFL clubs dont hang on to non elite 30+ players?
WaynesWorld19
Post-Human
of course
......but one assumes if your one of the oldest & most experienced that you haven't made the top 4 purely with mid tier players
Even if our best 22 included players out of form?
WaynesWorld19
Post-Human
Most footy scribes suggest Melbourne getting rid of McDonald was a REAL BAD move and whilst not a star his experience & leadership would be invaluable now
We know clubs felt Brogan, Cornes, and Power were gone as AFL players .....but how important are they to the youth of GWS
I definitely agree... but are you making the judgement on who is better simply on current form (how you judge SANFL performance by AFL performance I'm not so sure...) or on some combination of form and a prediction of where the player could end up?
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
At what point and who decides when it's appropriate to start winning games
With our draw this year it's probable we will make the finals
I would suggest that the equation would not drastically change with the inclusion of players such as Shaw, Lyons or Kerridge.
Sure. Although one would argue that a first round thrashing in the finals does little to develop youth.
I do not believe that this is more valuable than getting an extra three quarters/half a season into a number of identified talents who we want to play a part of our next premiership push.
Do you believe players are stupid now?
Refusing to take any steps to ensure the future success of the club will not help us in resigning anyone.
I'm sure wanting to play for a premiership contender is a drawcard. Wanting to play for 8th place?
Who's saying winning isnt important? Its just that the actual purpose of sports competition is to win premierships. Sometimes you need to act strategically in order to do this. Suggesting that short term concerns outweigh the actual key goal of the club is infantile in its logic.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
You need to take all factors into account.
Ability to perform now is certainly an element. For mine you need to make an assessment of their ability to perform now, against their long term value (i.e. where you've assessed their peak etc, their future importance). For a player who has 0 in the second box, they'd need a significant discrepency in their favour in the perform now box to justify selection.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
of course
My point is:
If you have the base of a premiership contender in terms of quality, experience can be a weapon. The problem being: we dont have that base. We need to do everything in our power to develop that base, and to ensure that we have experience in this base of the team to allow us a genuine shot at a premiership in the future.
Not playing kids now, if we identify them as important pieces of our future premiership team, has an impact down the line. It could prevent us being a genuine shot at a cup.
WaynesWorld19
Post-Human
Just remember that in any AFL club talent is identified and nurtured .....development is each clubs responsibility ....some better at it that others, but there's no doubt teams where youth is surrounded by experience .....development occurs quicker
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
Can you stop adding things in bold to my quotes.
Not only does it make it look like im responsible for your rambling, but it makes it impossible for me to quote and respond to your posts.
Not only does it make it look like im responsible for your rambling, but it makes it impossible for me to quote and respond to your posts.
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Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
'Most 1st year AFL players get about 4-8 games ......lets wait till the end of the season rather than round 4 to see how Shaw, Lyons, Kerridge, Jenkins, and Brown go .....I'll suggest now that injuries aside most will hit those figures'
Well, except two of the three I mentioned arent actually first year players.
'I agree if the talent identified is elite .......Johncock played most of his first season coming off the bench. I am confident the club will carry Crouch next year. You can't do that with Shaw, IMO you have to manage his body very carefully this year.'
If theres medical advice that suggests that playing Shaw is a risk, by all means take it into account. But at this point I dont think theres any basis for suggesting that there is, other than your attempts to reverse justify.
No they're not .....and that's why players not selected on merit is a cancer in any club.
Can you imagine the disharmony if you dropped Reilly now on his current form for say Kerridge. The players wouldn't accept the premise he's being played for future success .....the players would argue on merit Kerridge has to EARN his spot
Which would explain the mass walk out of players from Port last year. Wait, whats that? They did a better job of retaining players than we did?Why havent they suffered this players revolt?
Good players want to see talent in the team they play for. Its only those that are threatened by young players who would resist their possible selection.
Well, except two of the three I mentioned arent actually first year players.
'I agree if the talent identified is elite .......Johncock played most of his first season coming off the bench. I am confident the club will carry Crouch next year. You can't do that with Shaw, IMO you have to manage his body very carefully this year.'
If theres medical advice that suggests that playing Shaw is a risk, by all means take it into account. But at this point I dont think theres any basis for suggesting that there is, other than your attempts to reverse justify.
No they're not .....and that's why players not selected on merit is a cancer in any club.
Can you imagine the disharmony if you dropped Reilly now on his current form for say Kerridge. The players wouldn't accept the premise he's being played for future success .....the players would argue on merit Kerridge has to EARN his spot
Which would explain the mass walk out of players from Port last year. Wait, whats that? They did a better job of retaining players than we did?Why havent they suffered this players revolt?
Good players want to see talent in the team they play for. Its only those that are threatened by young players who would resist their possible selection.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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When have they earned it?
There is no set line - number of possessions, amount of times in the best players... There is no quantifiable moment when a youngster ticks over to "earned it" status. Same as there is no fixed point when an established player ticks over to "deserves to be dropped" status.
These are arbitrary points. It is the opinion of the coach and match committee that matters. However you measure it, it comes down to a judgment call from those in charge. Everyone is going to have a different idea of when these moments occur. Some are going to be quicker with the axe than others, some are going to be more eager to play youth than others.
I want players to earn their spots too. What I don't want is for us to put so many performance hoops up there for a kid to jump through that it takes them forever to establish themselves in the AFL team.
There are umpteen obstacles stopping young players emerging before we even consider whether they are good enough or not:
- Have to learn a different game plan at the SANFL club
- Play a different role at the SANFL club than the AFC want you to play
- Injury
- SANFL team is crap
- No spots open up in your position
Etc
I don't see anything wrong with occasionally removing some of these stumbling blocks or creating opportunities for players to progress. All that is is manipulating the environment so that you are a better chance of achieving the outcome you want (and need).
Final teams are in and so is he
Really
who sd hendo come in for? My sauce said he trained with the rehab group this morning
Like what you're saying, Carl. I've always felt that the "youth must earn their spot" model is the right one (and conversely, simply playing kids because they're young and talented is very wrong), but that the way we judge that earning is too stringent. I want to see young players earn their spots, but have less asked of them to cross that point.
