Strategy Changes v Carltank, Sunday April 21st

[Yojimbo]

I don't feel that Bevo had given up on the year. Injuries have forced some changes so he is experimenting with the guys that he is bringing in

Football is a constant cycle and it waits for no one, this year is fascinating in that lots of teams have to
hit the reset button they have no choice. How hard you pound that reset button is the big kahuna the
MacDaddy getting the timing right is the whole box and dice. The problem for the bottom teams is
that just when you think you have some good youngsters coming through all your established core is
thirty plus and it's back on the treadmill (Carlton). The constant evolution of a list is fascinating to
behold and has never had as many hurdles as it does today with the two minute noodles philosophy
and the I want it now Veruca Salt mentality.

 

[Yojimbo]

Football is a constant cycle and it waits for no one, this year is fascinating in that lots of teams have to
hit the reset button they have no choice. How hard you pound that reset button is the big kahuna the
MacDaddy getting the timing right is the whole box and dice. The problem for the bottom teams is
that just when you think you have some good youngsters coming through all your established core is
thirty plus and it's back on the treadmill (Carlton). The constant evolution of a list is fascinating to
behold and has never had as many hurdles as it does today with the two minute noodles philosophy
and the I want it now Veruca Salt mentality.

That was very deep Yojimbo. Yes it was I've had breakfast already.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Where are we at present I am unsure. I think we are doing o/k because we cannot attract big names in their prime and primarily need to develop and own and retain them.

I absolutely take my hat off to Bevo and the team for the 2016 flag I still pinch myself that we did it. Being a football nut I said to my friends when free agency (not sure how many years ago) came in the Melbourne based clubs of dogs, saints and roos and dees would not win flag in the next 20 years. I am so glad to be wrong.

My view was the top free agents that come to Melbourne would always go to the pies, bombers, hawks and cats and the tigers and blues when they got up the ladder. This is becoming more evident each year with maybe the dees being a bit of an exemption getting Lever. Look at the last few years Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard, Lynch, Stringer, Shields, Smith, Dangerfield and Treloar.

The dogs, saints and roos cannot attract the top free agents take us for example recently Trengove, Lloyd, Duryea and Suckling hardly top rung sort after free agents. So if this trend continues I think all the flags in the foreseeable future will going interstate or to the financially stronger bigger supported teams in Melbourne.

Hope I am wrong and we can buck the trend again but it is going to be very difficult.

 

[ScragCity]

Where are we at present I am unsure. I think we are doing o/k because we cannot attract big names in their prime and primarily need to develop and own and retain them.

I absolutely take my hat off to Bevo and the team for the 2016 flag I still pinch myself that we did it. Being a football nut I said to my friends when free agency (not sure how many years ago) came in the Melbourne based clubs of dogs, saints and roos and dees would not win flag in the next 20 years. I am so glad to be wrong.

My view was the top free agents that come to Melbourne would always go to the pies, bombers, hawks and cats and the tigers and blues when the got up the ladder. This is becoming more evident each year with maybe the dees being a bit of an exemption getting Lever. Look at the last few years Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard, Lynch, Stringer, Shields, Smith, Dangerfield and Treloar.

The dogs, saints and roos cannot attract the top free agents take us for example recently Trengove, Lloyd, Duryea and Suckling hardly top rung sort after free agents. So if this trend continues I think all the flags in the foreseeable future will going interstate or to the financially stronger bigger supported teams in Melbourne.

Hope I am wrong and we can buck the trend again but is going to be very difficult.

Yeah I think people often overlook how difficult it is to get top end talent to our club.

 

[DognBones]

Bevo thinks we can/will make finals this year. He's picking his team based on that.

This is supported by his mic'ed up address announcing the two debutees to the group. He stated that he is selecting players and giving opportunites based on whether those players can help win a final. Of course, one could argue that this strategy is a bit 'trial and error' and by the end of the process we might not have anywhere near the number of wins to play finals, this year at least.
We know that our list is both young and unbalanced so perhaps Bev's strategy with selections is dealing with that reality and trying to find the right formula both for this season and beyond. A challenging balancing act!

 

[bresker]

Football is a constant cycle and it waits for no one, this year is fascinating in that lots of teams have to
hit the reset button they have no choice. How hard you pound that reset button is the big kahuna the
MacDaddy getting the timing right is the whole box and dice. The problem for the bottom teams is
that just when you think you have some good youngsters coming through all your established core is
thirty plus and it's back on the treadmill (Carlton). The constant evolution of a list is fascinating to
behold and has never had as many hurdles as it does today with the two minute noodles philosophy
and the I want it now Veruca Salt mentality.

Exactly, my worry is that some of our mid twenties players might stagnate. But I’m a worrier. I have a strong belief that Libba is talismanic (and just plain manic) and is integral to the next few seasons. Oh Lord Patella, the patron saint of budgies, knees and nitrous oxide, please be kind to him.

 

[Munnez]

Yeah I think people often overlook how difficult it is to get top end talent to our club.

Traditionally it has been hard and doesn't look like changing! Maybe if we can prove that we are getting close to the window and being financially sound we may overcome this

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Naughton better not be thrown into the ruck

Or Bont.

.

 

[Pugz89]

Bevo thinks we can/will make finals this year. He's picking his team based on that.

Yeah, I found the mention of helping to win the first final was interesting during the Hayes/Young clip. Already planting the seed within the group. He is so switched on mentally.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Yeah I think people often overlook how difficult it is to get top end talent to our club.

Its a sad reality and something not new to the traditionally smaller clubs of the competetion. Personally, I don't mind us going for and missing the big fish only to switch our strategy to targeted lower end trades who fill a need and then hitting the draft.When you get it right it pays of big time. Its better than the norf approach of going for the biggest of fish every year, missing and then in face saving desperation mortgaging the future on mid-tier players at exorbitant prices. An approach that is sending them backwards to a level of irrelevance at a rate of knots that is quickening with every post season trade period.

 

[ScragCity]

So glad Melbourne are rubbish again. They were getting a bit arrogant for a team who had been relevant for one season.

 

[ossie_21]

Where are we at present I am unsure.

Where we are at is defined tomorrow. Win well, we are aiming high. Lose or battle to a win, it’s long term

 

[ScragCity]

We need to get Brereton down to the kennel as an advisor. His insight into the game is unparalleled. His advice has done wonders for the Saints.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

We need to get Brereton down to the kennel as an advisor. His insight into the game is unparalleled. His advice has done wonders for the Saints.

It was weird watching him be all humble and s**t for not taking the credit for their rise after one training session. I suspect it was a case of false modesty and once the cameras stopped rolling he would’ve taken all the credit he no doubt deserved.

 

[Jeff 1975]

You can get good players late in the draft, the thing is, the recruiting mob have to do there homework, having said that it’s only if the players want to come

Getting more established players is always hard for us, even after the late 90s, late 00s & 2016

You would have thought we had a chance at those times

As a side issue but related, when I head of the Dangerfield & Dahlhaus thing I thought it was a swap

Maybe I’m was a bit hopeful, as I know this doesn’t happen to us

I still think Geelong & Dangerfield should have been fined over that one

And yes the Saints are looking good – don’t mine that

Melbourne going down – don’t mine that either

 

[Munnez]

Our Forwards could definitely use some solid mentoring from a former Gun like a Brereton. Reiwoldt would be good as he is recently out of the game. Not sure he would want the gig though

 

[redmania]

Where are we at present I am unsure. I think we are doing o/k because we cannot attract big names in their prime and primarily need to develop and own and retain them.

I absolutely take my hat off to Bevo and the team for the 2016 flag I still pinch myself that we did it. Being a football nut I said to my friends when free agency (not sure how many years ago) came in the Melbourne based clubs of dogs, saints and roos and dees would not win flag in the next 20 years. I am so glad to be wrong.

My view was the top free agents that come to Melbourne would always go to the pies, bombers, hawks and cats and the tigers and blues when they got up the ladder. This is becoming more evident each year with maybe the dees being a bit of an exemption getting Lever. Look at the last few years Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard, Lynch, Stringer, Shields, Smith, Dangerfield and Treloar.

The dogs, saints and roos cannot attract the top free agents take us for example recently Trengove, Lloyd, Duryea and Suckling hardly top rung sort after free agents. So if this trend continues I think all the flags in the foreseeable future will going interstate or to the financially stronger bigger supported teams in Melbourne.

Hope I am wrong and we can buck the trend again but it is going to be very difficult.

This is a great post. Couldn't agree more. In trying to be an equal competition it just isn't. There is something in making stars rather than trading for them and adding some quality talent.

 

[Antares]

What makes you think that being in a rebuild and trying to win as many games as possible are mutually exclusive? Rebuilding doesn't mean tanking. What makes you think that player development is the major consideration in team selection? If that was the case I'd imagine West and Lipinski would be playing ahead of Dickson and Lloyd etc.

Like it or not we don't have any other rucks on the list at the moment who are worth a spot in our 22. But that's a problem with our recruiting, not selection.

We barely won against Sydney and the Hawthorn game we were incredibly lucky with injuries and umpiring. We finished thirteenth last year which is a good indicator of where we are at.

In regard to English, you seem to think the hitouts are a bigger deal than they are. If you think we lost to Collingwood due to the hitouts then you don't understand the game very well.

You are flat out delusional if you think English playing solo ruck gives us a better chance of winning games than having Trengove in the team. You're the one who clearly doesn't know much about football here.

Hitouts? That's just one factor. English having 0 physical presence extends a lot further than just hitouts, but even that gets underestimated by people like yourself.

 

[Triple Baileys]

If we lose tomorrow, there should be at least 6 changes for the next match.

 

[Antares]

Also, rebuild doesn't mean bottoming out or starting over. It just means the emphasis is now on developing players the best we can, whilst still trying to win as many games as possible. Its about ensuring the team is able to compete for a long period in the years to come rather than pull a good year or two out of our ass. Nothing near anything alike Melbourne. If the club isn't at least looking to Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney as a bench mark to what we should aim for, we are foolish. Rather be competitive for a decade than another short window.

That's exactly what Carlton have been saying all these years at the bottom, and guess what? They've forgotten how to win.
Playing a twig like English over a battle-hardened Trengove gives us a worse chance of winning games of football, and the apparent justification is "player development", the same way it was for Melbourne when they were practically fielding an under23s team.
Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney? Do you see them ever keeping best 22 players out of the team to accommodate passengers in an effort to aid their development? I guess you could argue Geelong did it with Hawkins in 2009, but at least he was contributing more than English is now as a lone ruckman.

 

[ScragCity]

That's exactly what Carlton have been saying all these years at the bottom, and guess what? They've forgotten how to win.
Playing a twig like English over a battle-hardened Trengove gives us a worse chance of winning games of football, and the apparent justification is "player development", the same way it was for Melbourne when they were practically fielding an under23s team.
Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney? Do you see them ever keeping best 22 players out of the team to accommodate passengers in an effort to aid their development? I guess you could argue Geelong did it with Hawkins in 2009, but at least he was contributing more than English is now as a lone ruckman.

You're tilting at windmills mate. English isn't getting games ahead of Trengove for the sake of development. Absolutely no one at the club has ever indicated that. He's getting games ahead of Trengove because he offers more. Trengove will be selected when his form warrants it.

 

[Yojimbo]

We need to get Brereton down to the kennel as an advisor. His insight into the game is unparalleled. His advice has done wonders for the Saints.

Don't underestimate the influence of Billy Slater, great to involve a legend from another sport who is one
cool banana when it's hot. Their movement has genuine purpose and they play for keeps.

 

[Maverick Dog]

If we lose tomorrow, there should be at least 6 changes for the next match.

Agreed, but also the coach will need to take a long hard look at himself. We were heading down the right path at the end of 2018. Our ball movement improved and we looked exciting. This year we have beaten Swans who look to be bottom 6 material and a wounded hawthorn with a lot of help from umpires.

The best 22 have not been picked on form and this is a concern. I hope the Young selection works but honestly what has he done to deserve a place ahead of other players who are constantly in the best. I am also not concevinced about Hayes. His foot skills in JLT were below par and we cannot afford to carry too many players who cannot hit targets.

If we lose it is Bevo’s fault alone due to his arrogance. If we lose this we are bottom 4 material and my faith in Bevo would have taken another hit.

 

[bresker]

You are flat out delusional if you think English playing solo ruck gives us a better chance of winning games than having Trengove in the team. You're the one who clearly doesn't know much about football here.

Hitouts? That's just one factor. English having 0 physical presence extends a lot further than just hitouts, but even that gets underestimated by people like yourself.

(Mattdougie - Linjong) <( (Antares - TimEnglish) x 5)

 

[dogwatch]

So glad Melbourne are rubbish again. They were getting a bit arrogant for a team who had been relevant for one season.

It wouldn't surprise me if that's what most other club's fans have been saying about us over the last year or two. Maybe not "arrogant" exactly, but having aspirations above our proper station in the AFL.