Changes v Port Power est 1997

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

1 - Milera is injured so the change won't be unforced
2 - Yes, they were. Didn't do much stats wise against Sydney but his pace, pressure and physicality from the first bounce was invaluable and his game against GC netted 2 goals off 17 disposals whilst he covered a game high 15.6km's.

If we played Port last week, Knight would have played. Instead we recognised he was tired and sore, he'd just put in two huge efforts coming off very little pre-season and 1 sanfl game so we took the chance to rest him against a soft kill and get him cherry ripe for the showdown. Knight will be in this week barring a training injury, I absolutely guarantee it.

Tex and Sloane are all but certain to come back in.

If we were only making 2 changes it would be Tex and Sloane in. Milera (inj) and Fogarty (omitted) out.

So if Knight is to come into the team it will be a forced change.

 

[relapse]

Hmmmm I think I agree, looking at his stats there's not much more improvement to come. Currently for AFC he ranks

#1 for centre clearances
# 2 for total clearances
#2 for tackles
#2 for contested possessions
# 4 for total possessions.

He's only 4 behind Gibbs in clearances so he could improve to no1 there.

Also just 4 tackles behind Greenwood so a chance for no1 there too.

Not going to catch Laird on possessions

So yeah, not much else to offer, other than maybe pushing to no1 in 4 out of 5 key midfielder statistics.

Of course he does, it's hardly a surprise when most of our midfield has spent large periods of this season out injured. Let's not try and pretend that it's a huge achievement to be leading most of those categories when he's done so by default.

People can quote what stats they want that suit their argument, but to me stats can often mean very little especially in this case where I am yet to see CEY really assert any real attacking influence over a game and actually hurt the opposition. I will give him credit for his tackling, it's easily his best asset out on the field, but personally I think he needs more strings to his bow than just that.

For me we have too many inside mids in our current midfield mix (Crouch, CEY and Greenwood). While we're playing them all currently as a necessity due to injury, it won't be the case once Sloane and Crouch are back in. I tend to think that CEY will be the one to make way for Brad Crouch once he's fit and if I was Pyke I wouldn't be hesitating to pull the trigger on the swap the moment that Crouch is fit and ready to play.

 

[PasswordisTaco]

Tex and Sloane are all but certain to come back in.

If we were only making 2 changes it would be Tex and Sloane in. Milera (inj) and Fogarty (omitted) out.

So if Knight is to come into the team it will be a forced change.

Lol I completely forgot about Sloane coming back in of all players, regardless, Knight will be back in. My guess would be for Gooch, not that he's done much wrong but was down against Carlton and would be due for a rest.

 

[GreyCrow]

True but against the tougher teams at pointy end you need your Sloanes up and about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

and your Gibbs and your Crouches

 

[Tex200]

Of course he does, it's hardly a surprise when most of our midfield has spent large periods of this season out injured. Let's not try and pretend that it's a huge achievement to be leading most of those categories when he's done so by default.

People can quote what stats they want that suit their argument, but to me stats can often mean very little especially in this case where I am yet to see CEY really assert any real attacking influence over a game and actually hurt the opposition. I will give him credit for his tackling, it's easily his best asset out on the field, but personally I think he needs more strings to his bow than just that.

For me we have too many inside mids in our current midfield mix (Crouch, CEY and Greenwood). While we're playing them all currently as a necessity due to injury, it won't be the case once Sloane and Crouch are back in. I tend to think that CEY will be the one to make way for Brad Crouch once he's fit and if I was Pyke I wouldn't be hesitating to pull the trigger on the swap the moment that Crouch is fit and ready to play.

So using a cricket analogy just for fun, if Travis Head gets Steve Smith's test spot and belts 1500 runs in a test year, averages 60 and is our leading run scorer, are they valid scores? Is it good batting?

Or are they of no consequence because he only made them in Smith's absence?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Two answers the first more prevalent to the reason I doubt he will play.
Will Pykey make the change, will he do something he has not done in the past. to a winning team.

2nd Answer do you believe Knights 2 games, were they good enough to warrant an automatic recall in a team that won by 50 points.

Think about Knights role , it's not about high numbers

High pressure game this week Knight will play

 

[Crow till I die]

Just stop for a moment and look at Bryce Gibbs..he must be pinching himself as he would not remember the last time he played in a team that was sitting 3rd on the ladder and had this many wins in a season

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Just stop for a moment and look at Bryce Gibbs..he must be pinching himself as he would not remember the last time he played in a team that was sitting 3rd on the ladder and had this many wins in a season

Pretty much the only time Carlton has been 3rd on the ladder in this century is at the start of the season before a game has been played and teams are listed in alphabetical order.

 

[Scorpus]

The only concern I have with CEY right now is his defensive pressure outside of stoppage situations. He's very slow with no burst speed, so he could be exposed when the opposition is transitioning through the midfield as he can't apply the required pressure.

That said, it's not an issue if he is primarily a stoppage midfielder and performing that role well, which he currently is. Provided the rest of the team can bring the heat where CEY can't.

The problem will come if we keep CEY in the side while bringing back blokes like Sloane and Brad Crouch, and push CEY out of stoppages in the process. A guy like Sloane or Crouch will bring the heat in any position on the ground and could capably play an inside/out role. CEY can't and needs to remain in that inside position if he stays in the team when others return

 

[Jarman3]

Love this thread title!

1997...yep, CORRECT

On this subject, I prefer the narrative that they were founded in 1215 around the time the Magna Carta was signed or whatever the hell it is that they like to claim.

I much prefer the idea that their present day team is sh*tting all over more than a century of their own history rather than just 20-odd years

 

[MarcusP2]

Just stop for a moment and look at Bryce Gibbs..he must be pinching himself as he would not remember the last time he played in a team that was sitting 3rd on the ladder and had this many wins in a season

After 6 rounds in 2012 Carlton were 5-1, 2nd on the ladder and premiership favourites.

It's after that the wheels really fell off.

 

[mistylake]

You want a outside running winger to provide in and under grunt work?

When he finds himself in a 1 v 1 yes it would be nice that he at least tries to get the ball or tackle his opposition.

 

[Shaz2012]

He's certainly not one of our better performed players when tagged. It's highly likely that we'd gain overall by keeping CEY at the stoppages and pushing Sloane to mostly outside rotations where tagging him will be harder.

That is my thinking too. But I would like to see it in practice. See what the balance looks like. I am weary of both Greenwood and CEY's lack of pace. But both of these guys are getting double digit contested possession numbers a game. On a small sample size (Richmond and Sydney) it doesnt seem like we lose much by having these guys to the grunt work instead of Sloane and Gibbs. I think we definitely do lose something, but can we more than make up for it by having these guys on the outside.

 

[Thetrader15]

I'd prefer we play our players in roles that makes us the most powerful team that we can be. CEY covers Sloane's inside work, Sloane becomes a massive upgrade on the outside player that he squeezes out. It's pretty simple.

Option 1: Sloane outside and CEY inside
Option 2: Atkins outside and Sloane inside

I'll go option 2

If not RAT, who does he push out?

 

[TRP1996]

After 6 rounds in 2012 Carlton were 5-1, 2nd on the ladder and premiership favourites.

It's after that the wheels really fell off.

Yes! That was the year they took themselves out of finals contention by losing to Gold Coast and Ratten got the chop. Good times.

Made the odd semi either side of that too. Of course in 2013 that was only because Essendon was bumped out due to drugs and Richmond managed to lose an elimination final to the 9th placed side. In retrospect I suppose Carlton's most recent peak was in 2011 when they were within a kick of the prelims.

 

[1970crow]

Option 1: Sloane outside and CEY inside
Option 2: Atkins outside and Sloane inside

I'll go option 2

If not RAT, who does he push out?

Rat and Mackay would be next in line.

 

[ad victoriam]

Think about Knights role , it's not about high numbers

High pressure game this week Knight will play

So basically Pyke going to make 3 changes when he not known for multiple changes.
To me, Knights is still a few weeks of his best football. Can you afford that going into a showdown?.
And yes it's not his numbers I am talking about, the last couple of games he played he seemed to be second to the ball and spent a bit of time chasing. At his best, he is close enough to put real pressure on the play.
At this time the players, he likely to replace are doing it better. So will they play him on reputation or what he is showing today?

Will Pykey make 3 changes to fit him in.

 

[Footypie32]

I very much doubt Gallucci needs a rest. His fitness is his trademark. I think he stays in. Knight will be an emergency again.

 

[hey shorty]

Think about Knights role , it's not about high numbers

High pressure game this week Knight will play

Its interesting, we talk about using the SANFL side as development but when he plays there Knight doesnt play the pressure forward role. Not saying youre wrong, youre clearly not, but is it the role hes best suited to ??

 

[Vader]

So basically Pyke going to make 3 changes when he not known for multiple changes.
To me, Knights is still a few weeks of his best football. Can you afford that going into a showdown?.
And yes it's not his numbers I am talking about, the last couple of games he played he seemed to be second to the ball and spent a bit of time chasing. At his best, he is close enough to put real pressure on the play.
At this time the players, he likely to replace are doing it better. So will they play him on reputation or what he is showing today?

Will Pykey make 3 changes to fit him in.

He's got 3x best-22 players returning this week, so yes, he's making 3 changes. He made 3 changes last week, 2 of which were unforced (Poholke & Knight). He made 4 changes in R5, only 2 of which were really forced (dropping Fogarty was definitely unforced, Sloane could have played but they definitely wanted to rest him).

It is very, very, likely that we'll see 3 changes this week - 4 if Hartigan is available, and they don't need him to have a run in the SANFL first. Sloane, Knight, and Walker will all play. Fogarty and Milera will miss. The only question is which player is unlucky to be omitted - CEY or Gallucci.

 

[Vader]

I very much doubt Gallucci needs a rest. His fitness is his trademark. I think he stays in. Knight will be an emergency again.

If Gallucci is dropped, it won't be because he's rested - he'll be "omitted" to make way for a best-22 player (Knight).

 

[Betts are off]

When he finds himself in a 1 v 1 yes it would be nice that he at least tries to get the ball or tackle his opposition.

You’ll be waiting a while.

 

[Golumless]

I agree, I think the praise that is getting heaped on CEY is unwarranted.

Big, slow, zero hurt factor and zero x factor. People trying to talk up "this he's only played 20 games" angle are kidding themselves, he's 25 and played close to 100 SANFL games, essentially we're seeing all there is to offer with CEY.

He's depth at best, if he's in our best 22 then we have some real issues with our midfield.

I think it's warranted. He's saved his career, and should be able to find another club (should he choose too) if we do retain Sloane without much dramas. I certainly don't see him as a best 22 player for us though once Sloane is back* as I have my doubts with it making us too slow/top heavy.

This is pretty much it though (may see a little upswing due to the knee reconstruction), and currently it's numbers that indicate he's a good role player as a inside midfielder; not much more though.

Edit: * Though I can envision a way to get jeffcrowes idea working, by moving Sloane to a more in/out midfielder that he was prior to Dangerfield leaving.

 

[relapse]

So using a cricket analogy just for fun, if Travis Head gets Steve Smith's test spot and belts 1500 runs in a test year, averages 60 and is our leading run scorer, are they valid scores? Is it good batting?

Or are they of no consequence because he only made them in Smith's absence?

That's a ridiculous analogy.

If anything CEY would be the equivalent output of a player staying at the crease for the same period of time and getting the same amount of shots, but only being able to hit 50 instead of 100.

As I said before stats only tell you so much, the rest you get from actually watching the players, seeing how much influence they have over games and how much they hurt the opposition.

Case in point ......



Unless you have seen them both play, this suggests that Kane Cornes was as good as Dangerfield

Stats only go so far and the rest I judge from what I see.

 

[Tex200]

The only concern I have with CEY right now is his defensive pressure outside of stoppage situations. He's very slow with no burst speed, so he could be exposed when the opposition is transitioning through the midfield as he can't apply the required pressure.

That said, it's not an issue if he is primarily a stoppage midfielder and performing that role well, which he currently is. Provided the rest of the team can bring the heat where CEY can't.

The problem will come if we keep CEY in the side while bringing back blokes like Sloane and Brad Crouch, and push CEY out of stoppages in the process. A guy like Sloane or Crouch will bring the heat in any position on the ground and could capably play an inside/out role. CEY can't and needs to remain in that inside position if he stays in the team when others return

I think that's an excellent post S.

I feel Jeff has the answer in terms of the flexibility that has unexpectedly come our way.

If HG and CEY can continue to crash & bash, then surely we come up with a more productive role for Sloane than getting beaten up inside.