Preview Changes vs Hawthorn, Rd 22, 2023

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TiAn_

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2006
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Well no what he is saying is most teams don't have the plethora of talls like we do so having the extra talls in defence is limiting us offensively as well as limiting rotations onto players in form as we then lack any flexability

No, the post says that we've only been beaten by smaller forwards. In which it is implicit that we haven't been beaten by tall forwards. Which is mostly true.

For example, last year we had 8 occasions where a forward took 5+ marks inside 50 against us (7x a key forward). This year we've halved that to 4 occasions: Nick Larkey, after Jones and O'Brien went down in the first half and we only had one key defender and Naughton. A decrepit Jack Riewoldt last week when we only had two key defenders. Jamie Elliot, who isn't a key forward and Mitch Lewis, our opponent this week. The only time this year we conceded 5 marks inside 50 to a key forward while using 3 key defenders. That happened 7 times last year. The taller defence has worked for... defending taller forwards.

Dale/JJ are better 1 on 1 then Keath and Gards this year

C'mon man. Better against who? Certainly not tall forwards.

, Daniel has played the majority on the year on ball and half forward not sure why you are using him and Vanders has only played a handful of games but hasn't at all looked out of place

Happy for you to replace Daniel with literally anyone else that plays the position.

We are getting smalls kicking a lot of goals due to our turnovers that stem from our stagnated ball use with the talls being unable to distribute well which is also why we have such big run ons against us because we simply can't score

This is a bigger stretch than Victor Wembanyama warming up. There are other arguments such as… our small defenders aren’t all great defenders and we play wide and overpossess the ball… that are more plausible than one extra tall defender entirely destroys our ability to both defend and attack.

So what you completely missed the part where in the League, you know the competition we play in, the majority of dangerous forwards are smalls and mid smalls, no good having excess KPDs when against most teams they do not have match ups and as long as Jones is playing we have the player who can play on the rare Key forward and one of JOD/Keath can cover off on any second tall. Playing too many talls down back has not worked offensively or defensively

A majority of dangerous forwards? That sounds like Pandora’s Box of vibepinions I’m not going to open.

The problem with the second part of what you’re saying, and your argument overall, is the assumption that every contest is 1v1. We don’t play three tall defenders just to stick to three tall forwards.
 

Oliver G

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For example, last year we had 8 occasions where a forward took 5+ marks inside 50 against us (7x a key forward). This year we've halved that to 4 occasions: Nick Larkey, after Jones and O'Brien went down in the first half and we only had one key defender and Naughton. A decrepit Jack Riewoldt last week when we only had two key defenders. Jamie Elliot, who isn't a key forward and Mitch Lewis, our opponent this week. The only time this year we conceded 5 marks inside 50 to a key forward while using 3 key defenders. That happened 7 times last year. The taller defence has worked for... defending taller forwards.

2023 is our 2nd best year in the Bevo era in terms of conceding marks inside 50 per inside 50...

MI50 - Against.png
 

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Testekill

Don't look at me like that
Dec 3, 2009
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Scott & JJ out, Cleary has to be in for JJ as it's probably the closest to like for like.
 

weltschmerz

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May 23, 2019
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Looking at the extended bench, Sweet is there as a break glass emergency. Macrae, Daniel, and VDM definitely playing. Khamis probably not. So Jones, Baker, and Cleary for one IC spot, one sub spot, and one emergency.
 
Aug 24, 2012
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Scott & JJ out, Cleary has to be in for JJ as it's probably the closest to like for like.
The thing is if we're going for a taller defensive structure (which we are) we don't need a like for like. We played four high defenders last week in Dale, JJ, Vandermeer and Richards (who played a different role). With JJ out and us wanting a taller structure, it's Keath that"s taken the spot.

It'll be Arty or Baker 100% imo.
 
I’ve completely missed the JJ news. What happened & how bad?
Calf injury incurred during last week's game. Returned to the field with it strapped up.

Called "tightness". Who knows how many weeks ... somewhere between one and however many weeks are left in the season.
 

Doggies7

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Yep imagine Baker will be sub and Arty into the 22 which follows our normal pattern of changes. Hopefully Baker has a big impact as sub and can get back into the team next week.
 

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Aug 24, 2012
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At least it's West Coast next week. Hope it really is very "minor". But claves on older players can drag on...
I'm more afraid of recurrence than dragging on tbh. Last thing I want is losing him for 6-8 in round 23. I'd sit him next week then give him round 24 as a lead-in to finals.
 
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I don't put much stock in injury reports. I reckon JJ is milking that calf for all its worth. Udderly predictable Keath in, churning through KPDs on a weekly basis, as long as we butter up on Sunday.

Come on, you seem to have a bit of a beef with him, you know it’s a cow of an injury.
 
I don't put much stock in injury reports. I reckon JJ is milking that calf for all its worth. Udderly predictable Keath in, churning through KPDs on a weekly basis, as long as we butter up on Sunday.
I hear you gj79. JJ is among the cream on our list. He really should be pulling on the jersey this week.
 

Doggy

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May 20, 2006
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Amazing how much people are falling for Hawthorn on the back of one result.

The week before they were pounded by the Saints who are trash
 

Munnez

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The thing is if we're going for a taller defensive structure (which we are) we don't need a like for like. We played four high defenders last week in Dale, JJ, Vandermeer and Richards (who played a different role). With JJ out and us wanting a taller structure, it's Keath that"s taken the spot.

It'll be Arty or Baker 100% imo.
Reckon it's Arty for the forward half pressure
 

Golden_6

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2014
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Arty & Keath will likely be in the ins.

This is probably how we’re going to look for finals other than JJ & Scott in for maybe VDM & Arty barring any other setbacks.
 

hutchy31

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2014
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Interesting discussion this thread!

For me, bottom line is no matter the structures our midfield should be way too good and experienced for theirs, and our forward line should be too talented for their defense (Sicily’s talents notwithstanding). They’ve got one good KPF and a few talented smalls, but it shouldn’t be down there much if our boys are serious about doing anything this year.

It’s incredibly difficult to trust this team, but this is the game that potentially qualifies us for finals (given WC are coming up) and it’s against a bottom four team. Lose this and we’re an afterthought in September anyway.
 

Bulldog rick

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I don't put much stock in injury reports. I reckon JJ is milking that calf for all its worth. Udderly predictable Keath in, churning through KPDs on a weekly basis, as long as we butter up on Sunday.
If we don't butter up on Sunday our season is on toast.
 

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