Preview Changes vs Hawthorn, Rd 22, 2023

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geoffjennings79

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Agree Ed Richards can play the Lindsay Gilbee/pseudo tall as he is aerially competitive.
Not casting aspersions on Dale's character, but he could be 210cm and would still play 'mid/small' at best. His best work is done at ground level, not in the air.
 

Bald

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Any backline with a fit Liam Jones in it is fine by me. Completely different team with him in it. Duryea seemed to relish not being the responsible veteran down there, even he was decent last week.

Annoying for JJ but I suspected he may be in doubt for a cold miserable Tasmania when he had strapping.
 

Foxman98

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Agree Ed Richards can play the Lindsay Gilbee/pseudo tall as he is aerially competitive.
Not casting aspersions on Dale's character, but he could be 210cm and would still play 'mid/small' at best. His best work is done at ground level, not in the air.
100% his best work is done at ground level however it's not like he is inept in the air that he can't just compete he actually does really well and has only lost 3/14 1 on 1s all year
 

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Golden_6

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Ah yes do what we did last year to "make noise" in finals how did that go again?

We have played a combination of Gards/Keath/Bruce/Cordy/JOD a lot it doesn't work it stalls all of our ball movement it is one of the biggest reasons teams go on massive runs against us because they just invite pressure on us as they can't move the ball, Why after watching last week regardless of what we did defensively would you look at how well we moved the ball and think ah yes we need another tall?
Let’s say we play Sydney first up. You will be comfortable playing Jones & JOD on McDonald, McLean & Amartey?
 

Foxman98

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Let’s say we play Sydney first up. You will be comfortable playing Jones & JOD on McDonald, McLean & Amartey?
Yes,

Gards/Keath/JOD didn't work with them so why would we go with the same again?

I take it you are very confident in us winning this week easily due to the fact hawthorn only have 1 genuine KPD?
 

Bald

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Yes,

Gards/Keath/JOD didn't work with them so why would we go with the same again?

I take it you are very confident in us winning this week easily due to the fact hawthorn only have 1 genuine KPD?
I think Jones/Keath/JOD is a different composition to the one you listed personally.

None of the three you’ve listed are proper one on one defenders, so they’re effectively three interceptors with Keath being probably the most likely in a one on one situation.

In the composition with Jones it’s fairly clear who’s doing what. Jones will play the lockdown role. Keath plays a hybrid of shut down and intercept and JOD plays predominately as the loose.
 

Foxman98

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I think Jones/Keath/JOD is a different composition to the one you listed personally.

None of the three you’ve listed are proper one on one defenders, so they’re effectively three interceptors with Keath being probably the most likely in a one on one situation.

In the composition with Jones it’s fairly clear who’s doing what. Jones will play the lockdown role. Keath plays a hybrid of shut down and intercept and JOD plays predominately as the loose.
Keath hasn't been an interceptor for 2 years now and is a liability by foot
 

Bulldog rick

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The hawks forward line has three good talls. It makes sense for Keith to play. Against the tigers we didn't need too and we played great footy. It should be a horses for courses policy but continue the attacking style. I am backing Keith to be a key cog in our finals push.
 

Foxman98

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The hawks forward line has three good talls. It makes sense for Keith to play. Against the tigers we didn't need too and we played great footy. It should be a horses for courses policy but continue the attacking style. I am backing Keith to be a key cog in our finals push.
3 good talls? Mitch Lewis sure the 2 have combined for 11 goals this year
 

doggies ftw

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... taking a maximum of four contested marks in total all year in any of his forward years. He took 8 total as a defender in 2021 - a career high at 0.3 per game.

Dale is an elite half back but "good" contested mark he is not.
He’s not a good contested mark but I actually think he’s a pretty handy intercept mark, stickyish hands and long reach - he just doesn’t play a position that puts him in the right spots for that kind of role.

Not saying I’d change his role at all as he’s been great, but I think he’s pretty capable overhead - better than your avg flanker imo
 

Foxman98

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He’s not a good contested mark but I actually think he’s a pretty handy intercept mark, stickyish hands and long reach - he just doesn’t play a position that puts him in the right spots for that kind of role.

Not saying I’d change his role at all as he’s been great, but I think he’s pretty capable overhead - better than your avg flanker imo
I'm not suggesting he is a Naughton contested mark at all he isn't and never will be but 1 on 1 he is more than fine
 

TiAn_

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Given it has only been quality smalls or at best medium smalls that have got hold of us and represent 50% of the top ten goal kickers and 20 goalkickers, explain how this is a recipe for disaster?

So what you’re saying is while we’ve used 3 KPDs we’ve avoided being beaten by KPFs? Hmm

I think you’re attributing a problem to key defenders that has more to do with who is actually playing on those small forwards. Richards has missed a big chunk of time. Dale is as much a great defender as he is a good contested mark. Ditto Daniel and Johannisen (and missed a big chunk of time too). Vandermeer is learning the role. Duryea is battling age. Etc.
 

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Next Waiting

Norm Smith Medallist
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I'm not sure what they do in this game with the defenders but I'm pretty sure that Gardy will be well back in the mix in Rnd 24 and in September.

You can ink him against Geelong and Brisbane if we play them. Port too if they get their talls back and fit. Carlton less so now that they've lost McKay. Where it will get tough for him personally is against Melbourne and the Pies. The 2 tall case can be argued for both of those plus Carlton (now) and a horses for courses approach. Undecided about GWS and Sydney. Don't think Adelaide get there, but if they do, he's back in the mix.
 

Foxman98

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So what you’re saying is while we’ve used 3 KPDs we’ve avoided being beaten by KPFs? Hmm

I think you’re attributing a problem to key defenders that has more to do with who is actually playing on those small forwards. Richards has missed a big chunk of time. Dale is as much a great defender as he is a good contested mark. Ditto Daniel and Johannisen (and missed a big chunk of time too). Vandermeer is learning the role. Duryea is battling age. Etc.
Well no what he is saying is most teams don't have the plethora of talls like we do so having the extra talls in defence is limiting us offensively as well as limiting rotations onto players in form as we then lack any flexability

Dale/JJ are better 1 on 1 then Keath and Gards this year, Daniel has played the majority on the year on ball and half forward not sure why you are using him and Vanders has only played a handful of games but hasn't at all looked out of place

We are getting smalls kicking a lot of goals due to our turnovers that stem from our stagnated ball use with the talls being unable to distribute well which is also why we have such big run ons against us because we simply can't score
 

Foxman98

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I'm not sure what they do in this game with the defenders but I'm pretty sure that Gardy will be well back in the mix in Rnd 24 and in September.

You can ink him against Geelong and Brisbane if we play them. Port too if they get their talls back and fit. Carlton less so now that they've lost McKay. Where it will get tough for him personally is against Melbourne and the Pies. The 2 tall case can be argued for both of those plus Carlton (now) and a horses for courses approach. Undecided about GWS and Sydney. Don't think Adelaide get there, but if they do, he's back in the mix.
Geelong only have 2 KPF Henry and Rohan are the same height as Dale/Richards

Brisbane have Daniher/Hipwood Gunstan plays like a flanker
 
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So what you’re saying is while we’ve used 3 KPDs we’ve avoided being beaten by KPFs? Hmm

I think you’re attributing a problem to key defenders that has more to do with who is actually playing on those small forwards. Richards has missed a big chunk of time. Dale is as much a great defender as he is a good contested mark. Ditto Daniel and Johannisen (and missed a big chunk of time too). Vandermeer is learning the role. Duryea is battling age. Etc.
So what you completely missed the part where in the League, you know the competition we play in, the majority of dangerous forwards are smalls and mid smalls, no good having excess KPDs when against most teams they do not have match ups and as long as Jones is playing we have the player who can play on the rare Key forward and one of JOD/Keath can cover off on any second tall. Playing too many talls down back has not worked offensively or defensively
 

JTCWBFC

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IDGAF who plays back there but the intention to attack more has to be the same.

If we can only do that with 2 KPD, go with 2.

If we can make it work with 3, go with 3 for the extra aerial coverage.

Personally I'd be swapping JJ for Cleary or sending Williams back for a week & putting Baker on a wing to keep the team more running friendly.

But I think it'll be JJ for Keath & Baker for Scott
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Geelong only have 2 KPF Henry and Rohan are the same height as Dale/Richards

Brisbane have Daniher/Hipwood Gunstan plays like a flanker
It's possible in both those situations that Gards might be preferred over JOD given the seasoned nature of the opposing talls.
I don't see Keath as an option for either as he'll be trailing .....
 

doggies ftw

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Is Gardner even quick? Bloke takes an age to do absolutely anything, might be quick on a training track but that’s useless if it doesn’t translate to game day. He’s our most lumbering defender by a mile IMO, and he’s not at all good enough defensively or aerially to make up for that.

I’m going Cleary straight swap for JJ, Jones in for Scott, Baker sub if I had my way
 
Any chance for the forgotten man, Toby McLean?
 

Foxman98

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Is Gardner even quick? Bloke takes an age to do absolutely anything, might be quick on a training track but that’s useless if it doesn’t translate to game day. He’s our most lumbering defender by a mile IMO, and he’s not at all good enough defensively or aerially to make up for that.

I’m going Cleary straight swap for JJ, Jones in for Scott, Baker sub if I had my way
Gards averages 1.2 intercept marks a game (same as Doc) and Keath slightly better at 1.5 which is a whopping .2 and .5 more than Dale/JJ and less than Richards 1.6 so I am struggling to understand what we lose significantly aerially playing the extra medium when Gards/Keath are useless in the air now anyway compared to Jones who takes 3.1
 
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He’s not a good contested mark but I actually think he’s a pretty handy intercept mark, stickyish hands and long reach - he just doesn’t play a position that puts him in the right spots for that kind of role.

Not saying I’d change his role at all as he’s been great, but I think he’s pretty capable overhead - better than your avg flanker imo
Sure, but that's not the statement I was disagreeing with. ;)
 
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Weather forecast for Launceston Sunday: No rain, light winds, cold 11 degrees. Bit like Ballarat I suppose.
Given the conditions you note you know what they say

If you can’t play football today you can’t play football

No excuses come Sunday they need to stand up where they have failed so many times this year.
 

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