Banter Adelaide Board's Combined Politics/Covid discussion Banter Thread (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

[Cap]

Given that we don't know the long term effects, or effectiveness, of these vaccines... I don't have a problem with the "experimental" tag.

With 3.3B people vaccinated, it's a very big experiment - but the drugs are still experimental. They just haven't had the time to do the longitudinal studies required for them to be anything other than experimental.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Nothing I have read suggests they are experimental in any way.

 

[Cap]

It’s not at all. It’s scientifically accepted that it reduces the severity of the symptoms, but it’s also accepted that the efficacy in terms of preventing infection and passing it on wane significantly, in as little as three months.

Vaccinated people are getting and spreading COVID left, right and centre.

Thats not misinformation, it’s fact.

I do enjoy how you ignore everything else just so you can keep posting.

They reduce the chances, that's the point. This really isn't a hard concept to get your head around.

Unless you don't want to of course. I mean how else do you keep posting misinformation.

 

[Slippery Pete]

They reduce the chances, that's the point. This really isn't a hard concept to get your head around.

For around three months. That’s the point.

Vaccine efficacy wanes after three months, says Oxford study

The effects of Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca (Covishield in India) vaccines on transmission of the Delta virus goes down three months after the second dose for the two shots, says a research by the...

thefederal.com

The University of Oxford study suggests booster vaccine doses to keep transmission under control. The effects of both vaccines, however, start waning three months after the second dose. The effect of Covishield after three months of the second dose goes down significantly, so much so that the study found no difference in transmission of the Delta variant between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I do enjoy how you ignore everything else just so you can keep posting.

The pot calling the kettle black.

You can address all the other points in my original post (ie. natural immunity, premises not caring about vaccinated people who have active infections, adverse reactions) whenever you’re ready.

 

[ADL9798]

Because the economic downturn was caused by the actions of governments, not by the virus.

Let's imagine the counterfactual (which thankfully wasn't taken up by many nations) where our government does relatively little to respond and allows COVID to spread unmitigated through an unvaccinated population, there are tens of thousands of active cases walking around the city on any given day, and hospitals overflowing with the sick and dying.

Are you suggesting that people would have continued about their business as usual in this scenario, and there would have been no economic impact?

 

[Mutineer]

Not sure what's funny about this Mutineer ?

Globally, countries and jursidictions which experienced larger outbreaks in predominantly unvaccinated populations have pretty consistently experienced more significant economic downturn. Sustained, high vaccination coverage will hopefully make this a thing of the past for Australia moving forward.

DEFINE_ME

Desist from tagging me please.
That article was Australia specific.

UPDATE 2-Swedish economy surpasses pre-pandemic size, economists say

* Sweden imposed few restrictions during pandemic (Recasts on size of economy, add fresh economist comment)

www.reuters.com

 

[Cap]

The pot calling the kettle black.

You can address all the other points in my original post (ie. natural immunity, premises not caring about vaccinated people who have active infections) whenever you’re ready.

Sorry I didn't see any legible points worth responding too. I'll have a look of I can find any.

For around three months. That’s the point.

Vaccine efficacy wanes after three months, says Oxford study

The effects of Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca (Covishield in India) vaccines on transmission of the Delta virus goes down three months after the second dose for the two shots, says a research by the...

thefederal.com

The University of Oxford study suggests booster vaccine doses to keep transmission under control. The effects of both vaccines, however, start waning three months after the second dose. The effect of Covishield after three months of the second dose goes down significantly, so much so that the study found no difference in transmission of the Delta variant between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

So this relates to Delta, which is why people are talking about boosters.

And again, it still reduces your chance of getting it, obviously once you have it you can pass it on the same as an unvaccinated person who also has it. I'm struggling to understand how you can't grasp this concept.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Let's imagine the counterfactual (which thankfully wasn't taken up by many nations) where our government does relatively little to respond and allows COVID to spread unmitigated through an unvaccinated population, there are tens of thousands of active cases walking around the city on any given day, and hospitals overflowing with the sick and dying.

Are you suggesting that people would have continued about their business as usual in this scenario, and there would have been no economic impact?

I’ve covered this in other posts. I’ve never advocated doing nothing.

Much of what’s been done over the last two years has nothing to do with health.

Wearing a mask when there’s no community infection has nothing to do with health. Curfews have nothing to do with health. Closing playgrounds has nothing to do with health. Outlawing standing while drinking has nothing to do with health. Telling people not to touch a football or talk to their neighbours has nothing to do with health. Putting down a bunch of rescue dogs because of “covid restrictions” has nothing to do with health. Not allowing fathers to see their baby being born has nothing to do with health. Killing people’s small businesses has nothing to do with health.

I could go on for six pages with the number of egregious injustices that have been inflicted on people over the last two years.

Closing state borders was against the federal health advice. So was closing schools. Remember that? Seems like a lifetime ago the PM was telling us “I’m happy for my kids to go to school, that’s the health advice, you should be too.” State “leaders” had other ideas. Self-interest, mostly.

Most of the response has been political. That’s why the details are different in every state. NSW is opening to everyone on Dec 15, and around the same date QLD is doing the opposite!

But nah, it’s nothing to do with politics, power, money and egos. It’s all health advice… It’s all to keep you safe.

At some point all of you will have to admit you’ve been sold a pup. Or, you’ll keep doubling and tripling down, into the abyss.

 

[BRL121]

Provisional approval does not mean what you think it means. It is not an experimental drug anymore. Billions of doses world wide will tell you that.

We used to agree, Jenny!

Please explain what you think provisional approval means. Any English speaker would assume it's a specific title used to differentiate from full approval!
Why would any body take pains to insert "provisional" or "emergency" in front of "approval"?
I haven't said that the vaccines are experimental, merely quoted the facts which might explain why the more radical out there might use that title.

 

[ADL9798]

Desist from tagging me please.
That article was Australia specific.

UPDATE 2-Swedish economy surpasses pre-pandemic size, economists say

* Sweden imposed few restrictions during pandemic (Recasts on size of economy, add fresh economist comment)

www.reuters.com

Yes, and all I pointed out was that it isn't a surprise that Victoria and NSW have suffered large economic impacts given the international evidence showing what happens to your economy when you have a large outbreak within a predominantly unvaccinated population. Unsure what part of this has distressed you.

I expect they, like Sweden, will recover reasonably rapidly from this downturn as vaccine derived immunity is built up within the population, driving improved public health and economic outcomes.

 

[BRL121]

You are stating part of the story.

A common tactic used by people trying to peddle misinformation.

It looks like you are unable to reconcile facts with your entrenched position.
I'm not peddling anything, let alone misinformation. It would be amusing to see you try to justify that statement.

 

[Cap]

It looks like you are unable to reconcile facts with your entrenched position.
I'm not peddling anything, let alone misinformation. It would be amusing to see you try to justify that statement.

I just did, in the post you quoted.

 

[Crow till I die]

Jesus - things must have been bad for them to fire suspend him..they generally peddle and condone outright lying

 

[arrowman]

We all know that social media (and frankly the media more broadly) can pick up and promulgate some outright falsehoods / false stories. But this one is a cracker.

I won't post links to the background, because the most key background items are linked in this article anyway.

Did you know that the NT government is using Australian military forces to round up indigenous Australians at gunpoint, force them into concentration camps and forcibly vaccinate their children? Yes, really! At least that's what some people, particularly in the US and UK, believe...

An Outback Conspiracy

Sydney. London. Toronto.

quillette.com

 

[kirky]

So The Lying Hunt is not contesting the 2022 Federal election and neither is the alleged ***ist by all a/cs.

Interesting to watch Flinders on election night - Victoria is more than likely to swing further left.

Pearce may be one of the many WA seats expected to swing to the ALP in WA.

 

[ADL9798]

I’ve covered this in other posts. I’ve never advocated doing nothing.

Much of what’s been done over the last two years has nothing to do with health.

Wearing a mask when there’s no community infection has nothing to do with health. Curfews have nothing to do with health. Closing playgrounds has nothing to do with health. Outlawing standing while drinking has nothing to do with health. Telling people not to touch a football or talk to their neighbours has nothing to do with health. Putting down a bunch of rescue dogs because of “covid restrictions” has nothing to do with health. Not allowing fathers to see their baby being born has nothing to do with health. Killing people’s small businesses has nothing to do with health.

I could go on for six pages with the number of egregious injustices that have been inflicted on people over the last two years.

I don't doubt that you could! There's no denying elements of the response strategy have had negative externalities - particularly border closures, statewide lockdowns and capacity restrictions which have impacted businesses. I'm sure these trade offs for achieving effective control of COVID would not have been taken lightly. Fortunately, living in a functioning democracy we of course have the opportunity to remove the political leaders who supported them (and clarify whether the majority agree with you on this).

The question is, what would you have done? What evidence do you have that this approach would have been effective?

Closing state borders was against the federal health advice. So was closing schools. Remember that? Seems like a lifetime ago the PM was telling us “I’m happy for my kids to go to school, that’s the health advice, you should be too.” State “leaders” had other ideas. Self-interest, mostly.

Advice to governments regarding a novel pathogen previously unknown to science changes as new scientific discoveries are made become available. That's how science works. Who'd've thought.

Most of the response has been political. That’s why the details are different in every state. NSW is opening to everyone on Dec 15, and around the same date QLD is doing the opposite!

Differences in strategy from state to state at the moment are almost entirely attributable to differences in vaccination coverage and the protection this affords the respective populations in each state.

Pre-vaccine rollout, even NSW resorted to lockdowns once it became apparent that the virus was seeded in the wrong community and transmission could not be controlled through TTIQ, mask wearing etc alone. Recent email leaks have revealed that on the fundamentals the public health advice from the NSW CHO was largely consistent with the advice being provided in other states.

Or, you’ll keep doubling and tripling down, into the abyss.

Ha. This is rich.

 

[Crow till I die]

remember...masks for thee but not for me. That's the current speaker of the house in the USA for those who might not know - the 3rd most powerful person in US government

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2021/11/PelosiClipMask1.mp4?_=1

and people wonder why there is anger at mandates when those mandating seem to think they are above their own rules

 

[Mr_Moogle]

We all know that social media (and frankly the media more broadly) can pick up and promulgate some outright falsehoods / false stories. But this one is a cracker.

I won't post links to the background, because the most key background items are linked in this article anyway.

Did you know that the NT government is using Australian military forces to round up indigenous Australians at gunpoint, force them into concentration camps and forcibly vaccinate their children? Yes, really! At least that's what some people, particularly in the US and UK, believe...

An Outback Conspiracy

Sydney. London. Toronto.

quillette.com

Grifters like Tim Pool must love this kind of s**t. He can just tweet utter nonsense fully well knowing his audience aren't likely to know or take the time to understand the situation over here.

 

[LiquidCrow]

We used to agree, Jenny!

Please explain what you think provisional approval means. Any English speaker would assume it's a specific title used to differentiate from full approval!
Why would any body take pains to insert "provisional" or "emergency" in front of "approval"?
I haven't said that the vaccines are experimental, merely quoted the facts which might explain why the more radical out there might use that title.

The TGA have a particular definition and context they use when the use the term provisional for a medical treatment.

Provisional approval of prescription medicines

Allows us to approve some prescription medicines for a limited period of time while more information about them is collected. The TGA will only do this where the benefit of earlier access may outweigh the risk of still collecting more data about the medicine.

www.tga.gov.au

We use the provisional approval pathway when a new medicine is a promising treatment for a serious or life-threatening condition but there is less research available on the medicine than we would normally require for the approval of a prescription medicine.

Provisional approval provides early access to promising new prescription medicines for serious and life-threatening conditions. However, it is important to be aware that our knowledge of the risks and benefits of these medicines is less certain than other approved prescription medicines.

More importantly:

There are a number of eligibility criteria for the provisional approval. Most importantly:

• it must be a new prescription medicine or a new indication for an existing medicine
• it must provide a favourable comparison against existing therapeutic goods
• it must provide a major therapeutic advance
• the sponsor must provide evidence of a plan to submit comprehensive clinical data.

 

[Coopers]

No comment required other than "Priorities"

Our first mistake was assuming the government cares at all about any given citizen

 

[Coopers]

These threads have always been full of trolls.

Yeah, but previously I was expecting some level of reasonable discussion. Now it's open season, baby!

Let's imagine the counterfactual (which thankfully wasn't taken up by many nations) where our government does relatively little to respond and allows COVID to spread unmitigated through an unvaccinated population, there are tens of thousands of active cases walking around the city on any given day, and hospitals overflowing with the sick and dying.

Are you suggesting that people would have continued about their business as usual in this scenario, and there would have been no economic impact?

It would only be the infirm, the predisposed and the unlucky.
The first two we don't really want around anyway, and yeah, unlucky people can gagf too.

Besides, they should all be proud to give their lives to keep the economy going. CEO's need yachts.

 

[jenny61_99]

Given that we don't know the long term effects, or effectiveness, of these vaccines... I don't have a problem with the "experimental" tag.

With 3.3B people vaccinated, it's a very big experiment - but the drugs are still experimental. They just haven't had the time to do the longitudinal studies required for them to be anything other than experimental.

There are no “long term” effects of vaccines. They are out of your body in a short period of time.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[jenny61_99]

The TGA have a particular definition and context they use when the use the term provisional for a medical treatment.



More importantly:

As per previous COVID-19 vaccine applications, this assessment was expedited by the TGA through the provisional approval pathway. The TGA has decided that this vaccine meets the high safety, efficacy and quality standards required for use in Australia following a thorough and independent review of Pfizer's submission.

Provisional approval of this vaccine is valid for two years and means it can now be legally supplied in Australia. The approval is subject to certain strict conditions, such as the requirement for Pfizer to continue providing information to the TGA on longer term efficacy and safety from ongoing clinical trials and post-market assessment.

Australians can be confident that the TGA's review process of this vaccine was rigorous and of the highest standard. The decision to provisionally approve the vaccine was also informed by expert advice from the Advisory Committee on Vaccines (ACV), an independent committee with expertise in scientific, medical and clinical fields including consumer representation.

Additionally, The TGA continues to work very closely with international regulators to harmonise regulatory approaches, share information and where it speeds up evaluation, collaboratively review COVID-19 vaccines and treatments.

The TGA will continue to actively monitor the safety of the Pfizer vaccine both in Australia and overseas and will not hesitate to take action if safety concerns are identified. As an extra check, the TGA laboratories will undertake batch assessment of each batch of the vaccine before it can be supplied in Australia.

 

[kirky]

Another SM goose who lacks intelligence.